The Lemon Fool

paulnumbers wrote:Why not setup a separate SIPP for new contributions? Vanguard with a 0.15% fee pa seems reasonable, so £5 per year for each year you contribute.

swill453 wrote:

paulnumbers wrote:Why not setup a separate SIPP for new contributions? Vanguard with a 0.15% fee pa seems reasonable, so £5 per year for each year you contribute.

Being able to manage everything as one pot is useful to us.

For example, the £2880 + £720 added each year can be more-or-less immediately withdrawn as drawdown, since it becomes part of the same pot, being neither crystallised nor uncrystallised until taken out. Means it doesn't have to be invested.

Scott.

ReallyVeryFoolish wrote:

Chrysalis wrote:Thanks for the continued discussion regarding separation (or not) of crystallised funds.

So, AJBell doesn’t separate. HL does (and charges for the privilege).

What about II? Anyone using them in drawdown?

There are no separate pots at II. There is a link that you follow in your SIPP and that gives you the numbers of crystallised v non-crystallised assets.

RVF

Chrysalis wrote:

ReallyVeryFoolish wrote:

Chrysalis wrote:Thanks for the continued discussion regarding separation (or not) of crystallised funds.

So, AJBell doesn’t separate. HL does (and charges for the privilege).

What about II? Anyone using them in drawdown?

There are no separate pots at II. There is a link that you follow in your SIPP and that gives you the numbers of crystallised v non-crystallised assets.

Thanks. Can you have different funds held in each portion or is it a straight pro rata split?

paulnumbers wrote:

swill453 wrote:

hiriskpaul wrote:The percentage values of crystallised but undrawn C and uncrystallised 100%-C does not fluctuate with fund value, but the amount that C is adjusted at each crystallisation and drawdown event will depend on the size of the event (amount crystallised or drawn) and the fund value at the time of the event. If you wanted to, I would have thought you could keep track of C yourself. Does Youinvest not provide you with the fund value when you crystallise and make withdrawals?

It's quite difficult for the SIPPholder to keep track of this.

Take my wife's SIPP for example. She crystallised all of it a few years ago and started taking drawdown. So at that point it's 100% crytallised, easy to keep track of.

She then annually pays in a £2880 contribution. So now the SIPP is partially uncrystallised. The proportion depends on the value of the SIPP at the time the contribution is made. She could keep note of that, but we have no idea if AJBell use the value at the beginning of the day, the end of the day, or maybe the exact time the transaction occurs. So any percentage value we take note of is only an approximation.

At some later point, the tax relief of £720 from HMRC arrives in the SIPP. In the meantime some drawdown has been taken, and also the value of the investments has changed. Again, the proportion now uncrystallised goes up, and depends on the current value of the SIPP. So unless we log on every day to see if the tax relief has arrived, we don't really know what the value was at the time the money was added.

So the information needed is a simple percentage, but keeping track of it isn't easy. One has to hope that the AJBell system is doing so. As I said, it would be nice if you could see this value online.

Scott.

Hi Scott,

Why not setup a separate SIPP for new contributions? Vanguard with a 0.15% fee pa seems reasonable, so £5 per year for each year you contribute.

What a marvellous idea. I’m about to enter drawdown and although my earnings will cease, I gather I can nonetheless continue to make a small contribution to a SIPP and have HMRC give me a bit. Running this in a new SIPP account seems a clean approach.

paulnumbers wrote:

What a marvellous idea. I’m about to enter drawdown and although my earnings will cease, I gather I can nonetheless continue to make a small contribution to a SIPP and have HMRC give me a bit. Running this in a new SIPP account seems a clean approach.

I think it's £2,880 a year you can put in, so long as you don't break the recycling rules. I thought the following guide was useful.

https://www.hl.co.uk/__data/assets/pdf_ ... tsheet.pdf

I gather I can nonetheless continue to make a small contribution

swill453 wrote:

Chrysalis wrote:

ReallyVeryFoolish wrote:There are no separate pots at II. There is a link that you follow in your SIPP and that gives you the numbers of crystallised v non-crystallised assets.

Thanks. Can you have different funds held in each portion or is it a straight pro rata split?

If it's like AJBell then the answer to that is "neither". There's no "split" or "portions" at all. The (single) pot comprises all your assets, both crystallised and uncrystallised.

You can see this in action with what my wife does every year. Put in £2880 cash, which is increased to £3600 with tax relief. This money is, by definition, uncrystallised.

However some of my wife's SIPP is crystallised. She can immediately drawdown the same £3600 cash (without generating another benefit crystallisation event) and it is deemed to come from the crystallised tranche.

Scott.

Chrysalis wrote:Curiouser and curiouser!
When I said a ‘pro rata split’ I was assuming that if there was no visible separation then, by default, there would be the same asset allocation across crystallised and uncrystallised portions.
But the example you give, implies that this isn’t the case. When your wife draws down the cash does she have to specify whether it comes from crystallised or uncrystallised funds? And in the latter case if it’s UFPLS or tax free cash?

And, if assets can switch pots (ie the uncrystallised cash becomes part of the crystallised pot) how on earth do they calculate the growth in the drawdown funds, for the purposes of the second LTA test? I assume at age 75 they MUST have to apportion the funds pro rata (ie assume same asset allocation across both crystallised and uncrystallised? I don’t know how they would do that, how do they calculate what proportion of the funds remaining are uncrystallised?). I mean, I’m sure it must be possible or they wouldn’t be able to do it, but it certainly doesn’t seem easy to understand or intuitive. And I assume you couldn’t choose to have a different asset allocation for uncrystallised funds compared with the taxable drawdown part?

swill453 wrote:

Chrysalis wrote:Curiouser and curiouser!
When I said a ‘pro rata split’ I was assuming that if there was no visible separation then, by default, there would be the same asset allocation across crystallised and uncrystallised portions.
But the example you give, implies that this isn’t the case. When your wife draws down the cash does she have to specify whether it comes from crystallised or uncrystallised funds? And in the latter case if it’s UFPLS or tax free cash?

No there literally is no split in the assets. At any moment in time, the only relevant information is what percentage of the total is crystallised and what percentage is uncrystallised. Adding new money, or taking drawdown, affects the relative percentages.

And, if assets can switch pots (ie the uncrystallised cash becomes part of the crystallised pot) how on earth do they calculate the growth in the drawdown funds, for the purposes of the second LTA test? I assume at age 75 they MUST have to apportion the funds pro rata (ie assume same asset allocation across both crystallised and uncrystallised? I don’t know how they would do that, how do they calculate what proportion of the funds remaining are uncrystallised?). I mean, I’m sure it must be possible or they wouldn’t be able to do it, but it certainly doesn’t seem easy to understand or intuitive. And I assume you couldn’t choose to have a different asset allocation for uncrystallised funds compared with the taxable drawdown part?

I confess I have no idea how this method applies with respect to the LTA as it won't be relevant to me.

Scott.

Chrysalis wrote:Fair enough, but can you clarify my other question? When your wife withdraws the cash, does she have to indicate whether it is from the drawdown (taxable) pot or or from uncrystallised funds? I’m assuming yes.

swill453 wrote:

fisher wrote:If you go into "My Account"/"Access My Pension". Then under "If you'd like to create a new illustration, click continue", press the Continue button.

It will then chug away for a minute or more and will eventually come back with "Your pension information was obtained successfully. Please click above to continue.". Press the Continue button again.

Now click on "Tax free lump sum only". It then will show you your approximate Total Fund value (crystallised plus uncrystallised) and then a figure for Crystallised and a second figure for Uncrystallised. That should give you what you want.

You can then abandon this by clicking on one of the links at the top to navigate back to your account.

It's a bit long winded but I think it gives you the figures you wanted.

Wow fantastic! Just what I was looking for, thanks. Would have been nice of them to make it a bit easier (all I want is a single percentage value) but, hey...

hiriskpaul wrote:I have just read that Youinvest are increasing the platform fee cap on their SIPP from £100 to £120 per year (for ETFs, ITs, shares, etc.). But they are also scrapping drawdown fees, so this actually makes them more competitive for SIPPs in drawdown.