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FIRE and 'human-capital' XIRR returns - the 'One More Year' question....

Including Financial Independence and Retiring Early (FIRE)
Itsallaguess
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FIRE and 'human-capital' XIRR returns - the 'One More Year' question....

#412473

Postby Itsallaguess » May 16th, 2021, 3:21 pm

There's been a few recent threads touching on aspects of 'investment risk' when in retirement, and the potential to mitigate some of those risks if they are related to a possible 'FIRE-scenario' by perhaps 'working an extra year' to do so, and as someone who's currently still working but on good days (and when I squint a great deal...) can perhaps see a tiny spot of light at the end of a still long and dark tunnel, and also being someone who prefers the simpler solutions to these types of issues over some of the more complicated solutions some seem much happier to consider, I thought a separate thread on this particular subject might be worthwhile...

As this is something I've considered for quite some time now, and as someone who doesn't particularly 'enjoy' their work any more, but also doesn't 'detest' it so much that I would loathe the idea of working a day longer than absolutely necessary, I keep coming back to the argument in my mind that the potential 'returns' on my own human capital over a given 12-month period whilst still in paid employment are almost certainly 'known', and almost certainly 'guaranteed', and in addition to those two important points, the actual returns are likely to be relatively 'substantial' in 'capital terms', and those three specific circumstances mean that I do feel it necessary to make sure that I'm making the absolute most of that 'human capital investment' in the best and most appropriate way, and this is especially so if it means that by turning off the taps to that 'human capital investment', it might then mean me working in other ways in a future FIRE environment to strongly mitigate it's absence....

One of the FIRE risk-mitigation aspects I often see discussed is that someone who might find things getting a little 'tight' might well still be able to find work again if required. This is obviously a sensible point, and one that shouldn't be forgotten in any discussion around 'human capital', but it's not without risks itself, of course -

1. Fresh paid employment might not be able to be found in a timely manner, and especially so with regards to an ageing applicant, and perhaps more so again during the exact times of 'wider economic stress' where such fresh paid-employment might turn out to really be necessary...

2. A new job might not necessarily align with someone's preferred employment - it might well be a case of having to take what's available in a way that delivers much more hassle and/or stress than might ever have been experienced if only a slightly longer pre-FIRE period was worked, in a previous working environment which was 'known' in terms of place, staff, workload, and workload stress/hassle...

Taking the above into account, it is however the 'sums' side of things that continues to bring the possibility of a pre-FIRE 'One More Year' risk-mitigating process into view for me personally....

First, some assumptions for the sake of discussion -

1. The potential FIRE candidate currently has an overall level of capital equal to £x, that covers all of the 'currently known' bases - namely investment capital delivering a suitable 'required income' via whatever means

2. That 'required income' also contains a level of 'income-reserve' for a spending safety-margin

3. There's also a level of capital within that overall £x figure that is planned to act as 'cash reserves' of some sort, let's say to a level of two-years 'required income'

4. The potential FIRE candidate is planning for a 'required income' level of £20,000 per year

5. The potential FIRE candidate currently earns a take-home pay of £40,000

6. It's hoped that the initial generated 'living expenses' of £20,000 is generally likely to rise each year - assumed to be a yearly 2% 'internal-investment rise' for the sake of this discussion...

7. After spending £20,000 over a normal year's expenditure, the potential FIRE candidate, whilst still currently working, is then also able to fill a new year ISA allowance of £20,000 with the remainder of their take-home wages

So, taking the above into account, and appreciating what might be seen already as a fairly 'good' scenario for thinking about a potential FIRE scenario at the time of being in that position above, but perhaps still with some concerns over the classic 'Unknown-Unknowns' that we're all likely to worry about to some degree, what benefits might we consider a 'One More Year' scenario to deliver -

1. Working 'One More Year' means that during that 12-month period, the initial 'working capital' of £x does not now need to provide 'funding' for that time where an additional period of paid employment will be carried out, resulting in a comparable BENEFICIAL BONUS of £20,000 in that year of non-deducted 'living expenses'..

2. Working 'One More Year' means that during that 12-month period, an additional full-year worth of £20,000 ISA allowance can be generated, resulting in a comparable BENEFICIAL BONUS of £20,000 in that additional year of working..

3. Working 'One More Year' might well mean that this period where the initial £20,000 is not being taken for living expenses, it is likely to see some rise due to 'internal-investment-rises', which we've assumed to be 2% for this discussion, so that means that what will be the new subsequent 'Year 1' of FIRE will then actually see an initial spending-allowance of £20,400...

So, for the sake of this discussion and the assumptions made above, the potential FIRE candidate, by working 'One More Year' might well find that by doing so, he's allowed himself to move from a position of only having two years worth of 'required income' (2 x £20,000) in his 'cash reserves' pot, to now having the option to add in the £20,000 moved from the initial £x capital, that's now not needed to provide living-expenses for that 'One More Year' worked, and also add in the additional £20,000 new ISA allowance that was able to be saved up for during the 'One More Year' working period as well.

On top of that, the potential FIRE candidate also sees his FIRE Year-1 living-expenses rise to £20,400 from £20,000 due to the internal-investment-rise generated by that 12-month period of continuing to work....

Now, I completely understand that the above scenario has the absolutely *huge* caveat of saying that the potential FIRE candidate who might consider such a 'One More Year' process is *clearly* missing out on the potential for an additional years-worth of *actual retirement*, and I completely agree that this is quite obviously the case, but the main thrust of why I raised this particular topic is to point out that *where* such a FIRE candidate might wish to 'do things sooner', and then perhaps 'worry about those unknown-unknowns' whilst actually in retirement, I think that there's perhaps a case for taking a time-based hit on the 'known-knowns' in terms of maybe continuing in a current paid role that's in many ways 'comfortable', even if there might well be *some* issues of 'dis-comfort' in doing so, if those 'known discomforts' might really quite rapidly and quite prominently start to strongly mitigate those future 'unknown-unknowns' by doing so, and perhaps moving from a position of having two-years living expenses in cash-reserves to a position of having four-years living expenses might well begin to do just that, for the sake of an extra 12-month period of continuing to work in their current role, and with the potential to mean that by doing so, some level of a 'simpler' post-FIRE investment situation has perhaps developed, where some of the often much more *complicated* on-going risk-mitigation processes that we sometimes see being discussed around these boards can perhaps be considered to be superfluous to requirements to a larger degree.....

This has turned into a much longer post than I initially intended, so to wrap up, I want to return to the main thrust of my opening argument, which is to say that whilst we're sometimes in paid employment, and looking forward to and planning for the potential for some level of early-retirement FIRE situation to develop, and we're busy crunching the numbers on the *financial investment* side of things, I think it's often easy to miss out on the fact that our own simple 'existing human capital' might actually be delivering an XIRR that, with the potential of hindsight at some future point in time, we might have considered to make more of, rather than sometimes rush to *remove* that potential XIRR from our FIRE equations....

For the sake of 'One More Year', I think the above benefits often seem to be worth considering.....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

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Re: FIRE and 'human-capital' XIRR returns - the 'One More Year' question....

#412488

Postby Darka » May 16th, 2021, 4:02 pm

Thanks Itsallaguess for an excellent and informative post.

I agree with your points and for most, "one more year" might be the right thing to do financially.
I may be unusual in that for me investing isn't and never has been about the money; money to me is only about freedom, hence my interest in FIRE.

This is also one of the reasons that I chose Income based investments over total return, so that I could more easily see how close I was to replacing my salaried income; I don't care about being rich but do of course need sufficient income to be able to retire and for that income to grow during retirement.

My wife is older than me and suffered from cancer a few years ago (in remission), the cancer caused complications requiring a hip replacement in the same year - this of course highlighted the fragility of life as I could have so easily lost her; her daily medication (for 10 years) is an ongoing reminder of this.

She retires in September this year and my "current" plan has me resigning at the end of October, being finished with work at the end of January after my 3 months notice (I will be 52).

I could of course work "one more year" and I'm still very much undecided about that - I REALLY don't enjoy my job so it's very, very unlikely unless I have to financially; and so far it looks like I don't need to.

But to me the greater risk isn't about money.... It's that I miss out on the early parts of retirement with my wife, whilst trying to earn a little more money and there is a risk of course that she might not be here when I have all that money to enjoy.

None of us know how long we have, and so far this week I heard my neighbours boss died (lung cancer - was told he had 3 months to live last Friday, was dead on Monday) and also found out a colleague at work was diagnosed with stage 3 bowel cancer in February.

It's a complicated issue of course, in the end I think working "one more year" might be a good thing, but if you have enough, then I think time is more important.

regards,
Darka

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Re: FIRE and 'human-capital' XIRR returns - the 'One More Year' question....

#412511

Postby JohnB » May 16th, 2021, 5:29 pm

Its worth reading http://www.retirementinvestingtoday.com/ where RIT wrote for years about his plan to get £1m and retire to the Med. In the event he surged past that sum, worked more than a year more, retired to the Med, came home again and restarted work. This is not to poke fun, but to understand that even some who's analysed everything in detail found the reality very different.

One More Year might be a risk reduction strategy, but is of little use if at the end of it you require another year to reduce the risk further. It can be a fear of the unknown, and its the push of redundancy that makes you realise you should have gone long ago.

Clearly human capital is important, and you'd not want to FIRE without being confident that a financial black swan wouldn't sink you a few years down the line when your skills had evaporated, but health black swans are equally likely. Anyone with a cautious XIRR is likely to die rich, but needs to understand that they are part-sacrificing a year when they could do things, to bolster the funds for a future year when they are spending a lot more to do a lot less.

There are many psychological studies that show we the discount future value of anything a lot, and that's a good life strategy.

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Re: FIRE and 'human-capital' XIRR returns - the 'One More Year' question....

#412521

Postby kempiejon » May 16th, 2021, 6:23 pm

Timing. I've been monitoring my portfolio income as well as the total* value for years, I had an income figure in mind and was hoping in April 2020 I would be in the position that full time paid employment became optional. My job is boring and dull, painfully so and made worse as lock down reduced the things I had to do - and some may never return. I used to say there are worse things to be at work than bored but it's getting me down.
Tasks at work notwithstanding though I've been delighted to have had another year in full time employment - but now, as I think it could be just one more year, it seems a worse proposition that it did a couple of years ago.
Now I'm thinking in the next 6 months I'd be prepared to risk it rather than hang on for 12 months and a bit more certainty/stability. I already have a part time flexible role in my current organisation lined up that is attractive - needs lock down to lift totally and it offers zero hours flexible shifts.

*Coming back to my portfolio income figure, although it'll be less than a couple of years ago I see my port value is greater than it has ever been.

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Re: FIRE and 'human-capital' XIRR returns - the 'One More Year' question....

#412530

Postby mark88man » May 16th, 2021, 7:01 pm

Thank you OP for hitting the nail on the head. Following a rollercoaster ride through the GFC, mortgage (very nearly paid off), children and then children at Uni, my FIRE plans seemed to have zoomed into focus with unexpected haste. Not quite catching me unawares, but more turning the corner and realising that thinking about the one or two more year scenarios is very close. My current position is 2 more years which will see me just over 60 - so not exactly early early, but still early, but during that 2 years will definitely be looking at swings and roundabouts of investments, as my pot is still aggressively invested, as I will mainly be looking at using it to bridge from FIRE to DB and State Pension.

The other thing about human capital, is that it is pretty guaranteed, and I love my job, its just being at work that I'm getting tired off. For me though, as the main earner in our household (by a long way), and (see above) having a pretty low expenditure on things (non mortgage, non saving, non pension things) I could see a way of going now. But everything included, my delta to the family finances is substantial maybe 3 years post retirement living costs for each additional year worked. So the temptation to take 3 more years of safety might be irresistible - I guess part of it will depend on how much our plans for global travel have reduced following COVID - we already do a lot UK holidays/trips.

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Re: FIRE and 'human-capital' XIRR returns - the 'One More Year' question....

#412579

Postby tjh290633 » May 16th, 2021, 11:06 pm

One thing that has not been mentioned is the possibility of working part time after official retirement, in the case where someone enjoys the work that they do.

In my case I worked for 6 months half time immediately after retirement and then went on to a retainer for several years. I was paid for a minimum number of hours, used or not, and paid for any hours over the minimum.

I liked the work which I did, liked the people I worked with, and liked the company that I worked for. Obviouisly it does not work if you can't stand the job, don't like the people and hate the company.

TJH

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Re: FIRE and 'human-capital' XIRR returns - the 'One More Year' question....

#412692

Postby Snakey » May 17th, 2021, 11:57 am

I have some serious skin in this thread because I am currently working my notice at the age of 49. When you commit to an option, you throw your weight behind it and make it work - so I have no intention of agreeing with you today that staying an extra year might be better! Maybe I'll come crawling back in a decade and say OK yeah... but that would be with the benefit of hindsight, if it turns out there was some terrible event heading my (personal)/our (societal) way, and even then that wouldn't necessarily mean the decision was the wrong one because you wouldn't know what might happen ten years after that.

So here's the thing: All of those calculations and factors that you just spelled out were the same ones you made in order to calculate and decide upon your FIRE number and timescale in the first place, a process that already involved optimising the balance between pile of assets (N) and years of freedom (Y). So you haven't in fact (and I say this with love) made an amazing discovery. You're just deciding at the last second that N needs to be bigger even though it makes Y smaller - which may well not be objectively or subjectively true, it may just mean you, Mr Itsall, are a scaredy-cat. Discuss. :mrgreen:

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Re: FIRE and 'human-capital' XIRR returns - the 'One More Year' question....

#412706

Postby Itsallaguess » May 17th, 2021, 12:43 pm

Snakey wrote:
You're just deciding at the last second that N needs to be bigger even though it makes Y smaller...


I think it's a little more nuanced than that in terms of the overall point I was trying to make, which was to say that if a potential FIRE situation is near to fruition, but if a level of doubt exists as to the robustness of those FIRE plans, and if a potential FIRE candidate might be considering potentially more convoluted and complicated 'investment-based' processes with which to bolster those FIRE plans, then it's possible that a less convoluted and less complicated 'robustness-enabling plan' might be to simply take advantage of the likely fact that their own situation regarding 'working human capital' and existing 'internal-investment-snowballing' might deliver a much simpler end-result using 'already-known methods and processes', rather than perhaps having to conjure those more convoluted and complicated ideas and processes into the equation....

My own original example was in theory delivering a 2-to-1 time vs additional-cash-reserve benefit, taking the above snowballing processes into account, and it's interesting to see earlier on this thread that mark88man has already considered these potential advantages might deliver a 3-to-1 benefit for him personally, so I don't think it's so much about 'deciding at the last second that the original plans need tweaking', as much as at least *recognising* that whilst we might be concentrating primarily on purely-investment-factors as part of those final plan-developments, it's important to also keep recognising that our own 'human-capital' and 'internal-investment-snowballing-processes' are very likely to be operating at 'peak output' during those final pre-FIRE months and years, and that full advantage of those simple, known, and presumably 'already-delivering' benefits are sweated appropriately whilst in that 'peak power' state, and perhaps instead of looking to finish things off with other safety-related processes that might perhaps be much more alien to us, much more complicated, and much more convoluted, we simply remember that there might be a much simpler option to just 'stick with the knitting' for a while longer to achieve much of the same safety-related benefits....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

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Re: FIRE and 'human-capital' XIRR returns - the 'One More Year' question....

#412772

Postby Hariseldon58 » May 17th, 2021, 4:49 pm

Snakey wrote:I have some serious skin in this thread because I am currently working my notice at the age of 49. When you commit to an option, you throw your weight behind it and make it work -

So here's the thing: All of those calculations and factors that you just spelled out were the same ones you made in order to calculate and decide upon your FIRE number and timescale in the first place, a process that already involved optimising the balance between pile of assets (N) and years of freedom (Y). So you haven't in fact (and I say this with love) made an amazing discovery. You're just deciding at the last second that N needs to be bigger even though it makes Y smaller - which may well not be objectively . :mrgreen:


On a personal note I went at 49 with a 4% SWR in late 2007, in March 2009 I had some doubts as to whether this was a good move !!

It worked out just fine and as time goes by the SWR is now below 2%, however if I was to work, the weekly portfolio movements would easily exceed swamp a years earnings..

The one more year scenario might well have been invoked in March 2020 as there had been a big shift in outlook, but now we can see some clarity ahead there has to be a point when you have done the sums and you either are there or not.

Analysis paralysis, just one more year to be sure….

The early years of retirement are very valuable, an extra year of freedom at 50 is more valuable than a year at 60 and a year at 60 more valuable than one at 70….

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Re: FIRE and 'human-capital' XIRR returns - the 'One More Year' question....

#412825

Postby genou » May 17th, 2021, 8:35 pm

Hariseldon58 wrote:The early years of retirement are very valuable, an extra year of freedom at 50 is more valuable than a year at 60 and a year at 60 more valuable than one at 70….


Yes and no. I went at 54, now 63, and see no real change ( covid excepted ) in what I can do. The rate of decline can be quite slow, and a lot depends on how healthy/fit you are. I had to claim a flight refund when my mother died aged 86, completely out of the blue. PiLs didn't give up on long haul until early eighties. I think you are overly pessimistic. Or maybe you are more into high octane sports.

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Re: FIRE and 'human-capital' XIRR returns - the 'One More Year' question....

#412879

Postby Wuffle » May 18th, 2021, 8:23 am

I thoroughly enjoyed the contribution here by IAAG.
It may help that I completely agree with the combination of risk management and good sense.
I have absolutely no skin in the game. 67 for me at best and likely longer in the interest of domestic harmony (GF is a decade younger and though my decade of work is invisible, hers won't be).
As an aside, could I just thank the presumably very well paid folk departing at 50.
Dead wood and all that.....

W.

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Re: FIRE and 'human-capital' XIRR returns - the 'One More Year' question....

#412895

Postby TahiPanasDua » May 18th, 2021, 9:13 am

Of course, nobody knows what the future will bring or can predict how things will actually pan out. Individual plans for early retirement will vary enormously and be determined as much by personality as some logic of financial planning. Fear of running out of cash can never be dismissed and may sometimes explain the perceived need for "one more year". There is no real right or wrong for the majority of careful investors who contribute to this forum.

For those hovering fearfully on the edge of the big decision, let me offer a true tale of how unexpected events at the extreme can unfold and how man's adaptability can result in a happy conclusion.

First the bad.

In my mid-fifties and working as a career-long expat, within a couple of years I was hit by a near-perfect storm of hardly predictable events. Seemingly out of the blue, I was struck down in short order by cancer and diabetes, a total loss of savings due to the Asian Financial Crisis, resultant near mental collapse and loss of my profession due to the foregoing . To add to the misery, a son required private drug rehabilitation which we managed but could scarcely afford during years of unemployment.

Now the good.

We struggled along for years depending entirely on my wife's modest teacher's salary as I had no pension or eligibility for benefits being an expat with no NICs. After a few years I was able to qualify in another modestly remunerated profession and go back to work part-time. The experience made me cautious with money and I taught myself the fundamentals of investment. By a combination of severe frugality and cautious investment, financed by very occasional huge chance-taking, I was lucky enough to recover financially. For years now we have lived comfortably having more income than our modest lifestyle dictates. My health has also improved hugely.

The conclusion.

You are highly unlikely to experience the above. Make the decisions on early retirement that suit your personality and don't be over-influenced by others. Chances are that the worst will not happen and even if it all goes wrong you will make the best of it. In our planning we understandably give little thought as to how we might recover from the worst. Just do it and don't overthink it all is my advice.

TP2.

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Re: FIRE and 'human-capital' XIRR returns - the 'One More Year' question....

#412932

Postby 77ss » May 18th, 2021, 11:19 am

Darka wrote:.....
She retires in September this year and my "current" plan has me resigning at the end of October, being finished with work at the end of January after my 3 months notice (I will be 52).

I could of course work "one more year" and I'm still very much undecided about that - I REALLY don't enjoy my job so it's very, very unlikely unless I have to financially; and so far it looks like I don't need to...
Darka


GO!

You never know what is coming down the pike and if you are anywhere near financially able to then why stay on in a job you REALLY don't enjoy just for that little bit of extra security. I don't suppose continuing to work is doing anything for your health.

FWIT, I went at the same age as you (52) - not at all certain that I could afford to - and intending to get work (anything) if I had to, but things turned out well and the past 20 years have been great for me. I have been lucky in my health and was still going strong (travelling walking, cycling.....) until Covid struck.

An unexpected event and despite the huge current frustrations I count my blessings that I went when I did.

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Re: FIRE and 'human-capital' XIRR returns - the 'One More Year' question....

#412947

Postby xxd09 » May 18th, 2021, 11:48 am

Further down the track than most posters here aged 75 retd 18 years
A few lessons I learnt
Your retirement income stream must match your working income -we spent the same in retirement as working-more time more travel
Have to know your current expenses accurately so as to be able to make a reasonable guess at retirement income required-I ran Quicken 2004 religiously for years before retirement (still do)
Went at 57 so both wife and I fit to travel-at 75 bodies starting to fail -the incapacity of one predicates the abilities of you both to travel
Had made enough so as to be able to run a conservative portfolio ie 30/65/5 -equities/ bonds/ cash(2 years living expenses)
so could sleep at night and pay no attention to ups and downs of market
All very personal and affected by luck and circumstances-probably will be too old to travel much by the time covid eases
However no complaints we were/are lucky
xxd09

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Re: FIRE and 'human-capital' XIRR returns - the 'One More Year' question....

#412955

Postby Darka » May 18th, 2021, 12:10 pm

77ss wrote:GO!

You never know what is coming down the pike and if you are anywhere near financially able to then why stay on in a job you REALLY don't enjoy just for that little bit of extra security. I don't suppose continuing to work is doing anything for your health.

FWIT, I went at the same age as you (52) - not at all certain that I could afford to - and intending to get work (anything) if I had to, but things turned out well and the past 20 years have been great for me. I have been lucky in my health and was still going strong (travelling walking, cycling.....) until Covid struck.

An unexpected event and despite the huge current frustrations I count my blessings that I went when I did.


Thanks 77ss,

Great advice and you are right, I can literally feel the impact on my health, mentally and physically.

I need to work until the end of October before resigning (maybe September if things work out) but other than that the idea of working any longer in this role is just horrible and I couldn't do it.

I have to work 3 months notice but most of the stress will go once I've resigned.
If necessary I can pick up some work in the future, but I am fairly confident (as much as one can be) that it might just work out ok.

regards,

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Re: FIRE and 'human-capital' XIRR returns - the 'One More Year' question....

#412962

Postby MaraMan » May 18th, 2021, 12:42 pm

xxd09 wrote:Further down the track than most posters here aged 75 retd 18 years
A few lessons I learnt
Your retirement income stream must match your working income -we spent the same in retirement as working-more time more travel
Have to know your current expenses accurately so as to be able to make a reasonable guess at retirement income required-I ran Quicken 2004 religiously for years before retirement (still do)

xxd09


I would not agree with this, my retirement income is much less than my salary was and yet we do everything we want i.e. travel a lot when allowed etc etc. I really depends on the details, as they say the devil is in them.

I would encourage you to retire. I did not like my job at all despite being fairly successful at it and it having many benefits. I was so happy to leave and the 5 years that have passed have been the best of my life.

I wish you all the best

MM

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Re: FIRE and 'human-capital' XIRR returns - the 'One More Year' question....

#412964

Postby Darka » May 18th, 2021, 1:02 pm

MaraMan wrote:
xxd09 wrote:Further down the track than most posters here aged 75 retd 18 years
A few lessons I learnt
Your retirement income stream must match your working income -we spent the same in retirement as working-more time more travel
Have to know your current expenses accurately so as to be able to make a reasonable guess at retirement income required-I ran Quicken 2004 religiously for years before retirement (still do)

xxd09


I would not agree with this, my retirement income is much less than my salary was and yet we do everything we want i.e. travel a lot when allowed etc etc. I really depends on the details, as they say the devil is in them.

I would encourage you to retire. I did not like my job at all despite being fairly successful at it and it having many benefits. I was so happy to leave and the 5 years that have passed have been the best of my life.

I wish you all the best

MM


Thanks MM,

I've been saving so much of our joint salaries during the last 5+ years or so that I'm very used to living on less that I earn and the drop in income doesn't bother me.

Ironically I will have more spending money in retirement than I do now, even though my income will be less overall.

rhys
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Re: FIRE and 'human-capital' XIRR returns - the 'One More Year' question....

#412977

Postby rhys » May 18th, 2021, 2:27 pm

I graduated in 1989, and left employment for freelance work in 1995. Last year's contract ended just before lockdown, which was ideal for the home schooling supervision. Wife works part time. Fourteen months on and I haven't looked for any more work, and at this point I feel I'm probably at the point that I'd be considered 'stale' if I did apply for more work. I miss the office banter, but not the work, which wasn't bad at all, just that it had lost the excitement that it offered in the past. As an aside, about three years ago, a colleague was proud to show off his new 4x4 pick up. When I commented that if he'd stuck with his old car, he could have afforded to retire two years sooner, he looked at me as if I was from a different planet!

I gave Barclays my first year's contract income to look invest through their Peterborough personal investment management branch, and started to invest by myself in 1998, and took control of that Peterborough money back in 2003. It was an education (a positive) to see how Barclays invested on one's behalf, especially since the rationale for all their trades were briefed to me by letter.

Now living off investment income, and having some fun trading VWRL, VUSA. I make more in a week than my wife's yearly salary, but still she insists on working. Her main concern is that I'm setting a bad example for our children by not seen to be 'going out to work'! But this has been such a happy year. I have the time and energy to do things. I'm no longer tired in the evenings. Saturday used to be the best day of the week, but now it's Monday!

Expenditure for 2019/20 was £25126.
Expenditure for 2020/21 was £27829:
£8809 Supermarkets/food
£6241 'Housing' - bills and renovation.
£3502 'cash' - a lot I couldn't pin down from bank statements
£2354 Professional fees, not to be repeated I hope.
£1686 Other retail
£1576 Motoring
£1149 Paraffin for Aga
£653 Entertainment
£510 Investment fees
£487 Flying
£293 Garden
£264 Telephone
£138 Water
£116 Clothing
£51 Health

I am spending money from our non sheltered accounts. Should I need to draw further income, I intend to touch the ISAs first, but leave our SIPPs alone; while they look like excellent vehicles for IHT mitigation, I intend to use them for just that.

For anyone dithering about whether to retire or not, I would pose two questions.
1. Do you love your job? IF YES, then continue to work, ELSE
2. Can you afford to retire? IF YES then resign, ELSE repeat questions at regular intervals.

Darka
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Re: FIRE and 'human-capital' XIRR returns - the 'One More Year' question....

#412990

Postby Darka » May 18th, 2021, 3:21 pm

rhys wrote:For anyone dithering about whether to retire or not, I would pose two questions.
1. Do you love your job? IF YES, then continue to work, ELSE
2. Can you afford to retire? IF YES then resign, ELSE repeat questions at regular intervals.


Thanks rhys,

I think those two questions sum it up pretty well and are really all you need to consider in my opinion.

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Re: FIRE and 'human-capital' XIRR returns - the 'One More Year' question....

#413008

Postby 77ss » May 18th, 2021, 4:21 pm

Darka wrote:
77ss wrote:GO!

You never know what is coming down the pike and if you are anywhere near financially able to then why stay on in a job you REALLY don't enjoy just for that little bit of extra security. I don't suppose continuing to work is doing anything for your health.

FWIT, I went at the same age as you (52) - not at all certain that I could afford to - and intending to get work (anything) if I had to, but things turned out well and the past 20 years have been great for me. I have been lucky in my health and was still going strong (travelling walking, cycling.....) until Covid struck.

An unexpected event and despite the huge current frustrations I count my blessings that I went when I did.


Thanks 77ss,

Great advice and you are right, I can literally feel the impact on my health, mentally and physically.

I need to work until the end of October before resigning (maybe September if things work out) but other than that the idea of working any longer in this role is just horrible and I couldn't do it.

I have to work 3 months notice but most of the stress will go once I've resigned.
If necessary I can pick up some work in the future, but I am fairly confident (as much as one can be) that it might just work out ok.

regards,


You are answering your own question. It does help sometimes to put things in black and white - focussing on the 'known knows'.

I suspect that once having made your decision and resigned, you will move to cloud 9 overnight!

I certainly did.

Good luck.


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