Peak Fire?

[Dod101]

While this may be true in 2022, orthodox FIRE does not condone a dividend heavy approach, but rather (correctly IMO) a total return one.

HYPers (of which I consider myself one) should be very aware that the natural yield approach has been falsified and proven not only sub optimal in terms of accumulation than a TR approach, but also more risky in decumulation.

Hold on a bit. If one is living off the natural yield, one is not decumulating. That implies withdrawing capital. Reinvesting the income is accumulating.

TJH

Sure, but what happens when your dividend income fails to keep up with living expenses? There is no guarantee that dividend growth will keep up with inflation or, even if it does over the long term, that it will do so right at the point where you need it to the most.

You got this the wrong way round. Your living expenses should not exceed your income. I know very well that my expenses can be infinite but that is not what I am about. I live well within my means (and for me that means my dividend income) and so should everyone.

Dod

No, I don't.
In order to maintain your standard of living you need to consume a certain level of goods and service, which requires a certain level of income.

Of course most people can cut their expenditure, but then why bother having a retirement framework at all - just work for a year and wing it for the next 50?

And there was I thinking that my standard of living is very much dependent on my available income, but it seems that you can decide upon a required standard of living and from that the level of income required. If that sort of thinking is at all common, then it is no wonder that people are dissatisfied with the way they live.

I have been retired for a long time now and I know what my day to day expenses are (or at least I did until inflation hit hard in recent months) My expenses have not risen much but that is because I had a lot of slack in them and have been cutting back without really trying very hard.

Dod

[DrFfybes]

And there was I thinking that my standard of living is very much dependent on my available income,

How quaint

but it seems that you can decide upon a required standard of living and from that the level of income required. If that sort of thinking is at all common, then it is no wonder that people are dissatisfied with the way they live.

I think the technical term for these people is "in debt", often followed by "in the poo", and then "discharged".

Paul

[1nvest]

And there was I thinking that my standard of living is very much dependent on my available income,

How quaint

but it seems that you can decide upon a required standard of living and from that the level of income required. If that sort of thinking is at all common, then it is no wonder that people are dissatisfied with the way they live.

I think the technical term for these people is "in debt", often followed by "in the poo", and then "discharged".

Paul

Many of present day youth leave school, have little option other than to go into higher education - where poly's are now called uni's, and taught how to establish and content with being in debt. £70K after three years now I believe is common. Bankruptcy doesn't eliminate that debt, there's no way out, other than paying it down via the usual 20% tax, 12% National Insurance, 9% grad tax pathway on any wages above minimum wage levels (and where interest is added at inflation plus 3%).

Work the weekend, no thanks - hardly worthwhile after travelling expenses and taxation. Starting another credit card is far easier and pretty much what they're taught to do from the offset. No longer have £x in their pockets to go on a evening out with, just a card that you tap, and more often by the end of the night they haven't a clue as to how much more debt they ran up that evening. Many don't even seem to check that the amount their being tapped for corresponds to the what they actually bought. But no problem, everyone's a winner these days, again as taught from primary school age, just have to wait their turn before they become a celebrity. Family value? Nah! All a me-me world now.