BT Group Finals, including dividend suspension.

[jackdaww]

Since the virus emerged I feel I am becoming more conservative and certainly paying more attention to the numbers under the covers. (Phil Oakley, who I name checked above, is current reading and I am "doing an Oakley" on all my holdings and collating onto google sheets in my spare time. Already I'm horrified by a few of my past buying decisions.)

Would I want to hold BT in a 15 share DIY HYP ?

No.

Hope you will share with us any horrors that you discover!

Dod

Yes I will try to, probably at end of the year over on Portfolio Management & Review. As mentioned elsewhere I've decided to do nothing this year until then. Which includes not buying BT . I didn't get past that pension ratio check I mentioned above and am not wasting any more of my time (I am trying to be more conservative with that too) trying to find convincing reasons or "news" to buy.

I have an inkling my portfolio may look quite different in three or four years time. But I have felt that for a while actually. What was left of my

blind Pyadic faith

has left me.

==============================

i have avoided faith systems of all kinds .

but is it really pyad/hype thats at fault?

most portfolios of all types including mine are having a very hard time .

[moorfield]

but is it really pyad/hype thats at fault?

No not really. It's the generally muddled interpretation and practice of in these parts that is. By "faith" I meant the dictionary definition: complete trust or confidence in someone (Pyad, Doris) or something (HYP). The OP's question and the eighth paragraph of that Doris article wizard posted reinforces something I have suspected for a while: the majority of people here and their hard-earned and hard-saved may be better served by left-alone investment trusts.

But back to BT - the answer to the OPs question is simple after all, and shouldn't need 5 pages of 81 posts to get there:

Those who hold should continue to hold, simple as that, as Pyad advocated (viz. "Doing nothing? Nothing Doing." in that Doris article). He did not advocate to "might just dump them on market opening", clearly.

[idpickering]

Those who hold should continue to hold, simple as that, as Pyad advocated (viz. "Doing nothing? Nothing Doing." in that Doris article). He did not advocate to "might just dump them on market opening", clearly.

That comment about dumping BT.A was mine. For me they were getting to be more and more of a cancer in my HYP,so I opted to remove that blemish. As much as I understand Stephen’s opening HYP articles, I reserve the right to manage my HYP as I see fit. Ideally I’d rather not have been so draconian in dumping them, as I would rather leave things alone, but sometimes one has to act. With the sp movement on that day it seems I wasn’t alone on giving up on BT.A. Going forward I’m going to work harder to do nothing, but I have no regrets on selling out of BT.A.

Ian.

[jackdaww]

Those who hold should continue to hold, simple as that, as Pyad advocated (viz. "Doing nothing? Nothing Doing." in that Doris article). He did not advocate to "might just dump them on market opening", clearly.

That comment about dumping BT.A was mine. For me they were getting to be more and more of a cancer in my HYP,so I opted to remove that blemish. As much as I understand Stephen’s opening HYP articles, I reserve the right to manage my HYP as I see fit. Ideally I’d rather not have been so draconian in dumping them, as I would rather leave things alone, but sometimes one has to act. With the sp movement on that day it seems I wasn’t alone on giving up on BT.A. Going forward I’m going to work harder to do nothing, but I have no regrets on selling out of BT.A.

Ian.

=====================================

doing nothing is not an option for me .

things change , we learn , ideas change .

i'm not prepared to watch a share nosedive into oblivion just because it continues to pay a fat dividend .

in any case , if the SP doesnt at least hold up , these dividends are just a return of your declining capital.

[jackdaww]

=======================

i do apologise .

no offence or criticism was meant .

i am not allowed to be up front on this board.

Nothing to apologise for - it's just that I didn't know what you meant, and still don't. Criticism I'm fine with: but I'm no good with cryptic clues And being up front: who said that is against the board rules? provided it's polite and not sarcastic.

Arb.

=====================================

ok. apology redacted. clearly inappropriate.

to answer your questions.

no i am not a "hyper" - i invest for total returns , not income.

but i have in the past held many HYP type shares , and still do have LGEN , glaxo , BHP and a few others .

i even held BT until 2008 .

my portfolio is doing much the same as most others i think , not very well .

[Dod101]

What I was trying to get at with BT was whether we could draw any conclusions from the very modest increase in its market cap between its issue price and its current price. Rather complicated it seems and not really worth the effort unless you are a Gengulphus.

It really is a hopeless investment though, certainly in TR terms and not very dependable as a HYP share.

I do not know why anyone would put their entire investment strategy in the hands of one man.

Dod

[Wizard]

Those who hold should continue to hold, simple as that, as Pyad advocated (viz. "Doing nothing? Nothing Doing." in that Doris article). He did not advocate to "might just dump them on market opening", clearly.

That comment about dumping BT.A was mine. For me they were getting to be more and more of a cancer in my HYP,so I opted to remove that blemish. As much as I understand Stephen’s opening HYP articles, I reserve the right to manage my HYP as I see fit. Ideally I’d rather not have been so draconian in dumping them, as I would rather leave things alone, but sometimes one has to act. With the sp movement on that day it seems I wasn’t alone on giving up on BT.A. Going forward I’m going to work harder to do nothing, but I have no regrets on selling out of BT.A.
*
Ian.

My bold.

Of course you do, and so you should, it is your money. The point sometimes made is that by doing so you are not running an HYP, because you are not following the approach laid down by PYAD. In your case you frequently dispose of holdings because you no longer feel comfortable with them. That is not a feature of your portfolio only during just this recent crisis, but has long been the case, yet central to HYP is the principle of LTBH. Others have sophisticated top slicing methodologies. Others have significant Income Reserves. These were, to the best of my knowledge, never features of the described HYP methodology. What you and others do is manage a high yield portfolio as you see fit; from the postings here some have been extremely successful doing so. What I struggle to understand is why, when those portfolios are not run in the simplistic way articulared as HYP there is the desire to claim they are and give the credit to another, when the credit is due to the person managing the portfolio. As I am at risk of going off topic I will stop now.

Maybe if somebody quotes this Ian will see it

[tjh290633]

I do not know why anyone would put their entire investment strategy in the hands of one man.

Dod

But isn't that exactly what people who invest in ITs and Funds do? The Woodford followers did just that.

If you are your own portfolio manager, then how you manage it is up to you. You can modify your strategy if the occasion demands you so to do.

TJH

[Dod101]

I do not know why anyone would put their entire investment strategy in the hands of one man.

Dod

But isn't that exactly what people who invest in ITs and Funds do? The Woodford followers did just that.

If you are your own portfolio manager, then how you manage it is up to you. You can modify your strategy if the occasion demands you so to do.

TJH

That is an interesting question. Following pyad's strategy as a purist HYPer is not quite the same as handing over a wodge of money to Woodford as must be obvious. One is following a strategy but the tactics are yours (the choice of shares) and the other is nailing your entire colours to his mast and following the master whether you like what he is doling or not. But we are in danger of going off topic so had better leave it there.

Dod

[IanTHughes]

I do not know why anyone would put their entire investment strategy in the hands of one man.

But isn't that exactly what people who invest in ITs and Funds do? The Woodford followers did just that.

If you are your own portfolio manager, then how you manage it is up to you. You can modify your strategy if the occasion demands you so to do.

That is an interesting question. Following pyad's strategy as a purist HYPer is not quite the same as handing over a wodge of money to Woodford as must be obvious. One is following a strategy but the tactics are yours (the choice of shares) and the other is nailing your entire colours to his mast and following the master whether you like what he is doling or not. But we are in danger of going off topic so had better leave it there.

Surely if one does not like the investment style of a particular Fund Manager, one simply does not put any money under that disliked Fund Manager's control. Similarly, if one does not like the HYP strategy then one does not build an HYP.

Rather normal I would have thought, what is the interesting question?


Ian

[Wizard]

I do not know why anyone would put their entire investment strategy in the hands of one man.

Dod

But isn't that exactly what people who invest in ITs and Funds do? The Woodford followers did just that.

If you are your own portfolio manager, then how you manage it is up to you. You can modify your strategy if the occasion demands you so to do.

TJH

But looking at it one way equally it is not what most people on here are doing, because they are not managing their portfolio as PYAD articulated in his HYP articles. I guess looking at it another way they are, but that person is not PYAD, it is themselves.

[MDW1954]

Those who hold should continue to hold, simple as that, as Pyad advocated (viz. "Doing nothing? Nothing Doing." in that Doris article). He did not advocate to "might just dump them on market opening", clearly.

That comment about dumping BT.A was mine. For me they were getting to be more and more of a cancer in my HYP,so I opted to remove that blemish. As much as I understand Stephen’s opening HYP articles, I reserve the right to manage my HYP as I see fit. Ideally I’d rather not have been so draconian in dumping them, as I would rather leave things alone, but sometimes one has to act. With the sp movement on that day it seems I wasn’t alone on giving up on BT.A. Going forward I’m going to work harder to do nothing, but I have no regrets on selling out of BT.A.
*
Ian.

My bold.

Of course you do, and so you should, it is your money. The point sometimes made is that by doing so you are not running an HYP, because you are not following the approach laid down by PYAD. In your case you frequently dispose of holdings because you no longer feel comfortable with them. That is not a feature of your portfolio only during just this recent crisis, but has long been the case, yet central to HYP is the principle of LTBH. Others have sophisticated top slicing methodologies. Others have significant Income Reserves. These were, to the best of my knowledge, never features of the described HYP methodology. What you and others do is manage a high yield portfolio as you see fit; from the postings here some have been extremely successful doing so. What I struggle to understand is why, when those portfolios are not run in the simplistic way articulated as HYP there is the desire to claim they are and give the credit to another, when the credit is due to the person managing the portfolio. As I am at risk of going off topic I will stop now.

Maybe if somebody quotes this Ian will see it

Duly quoted.

MDW1954

[idpickering]

Maybe if somebody quotes this Ian will see it

Doesn’t mean I have to rise to the bait though does it?
Notwithstanding the smilie, II don’t think this is a laughing matter.
That’s me done with this thread, another one of mine dragged off topic yet again.

Ian.

[MDW1954]

Maybe if somebody quotes this Ian will see it

Doesn’t mean I have to rise to the bait though does it?
Notwithstanding the smilie, II don’t think this is a laughing matter.
That’s me done with this thread, another one of mine dragged off topic yet again.

Ian.

Ian,

I quoted it because it was complimentary -- not just to you, but to all HYPers whose portfolios deliver the income they want, while being managed in a way that differs from strict HYP guidelines. Which means quite a few regulars here!

MDW1954

[idpickering]

Maybe if somebody quotes this Ian will see it

Doesn’t mean I have to rise to the bait though does it?
Notwithstanding the smilie, II don’t think this is a laughing matter.
That’s me done with this thread, another one of mine dragged off topic yet again.

Ian.

Ian,

I quoted it because it was complimentary -- not just to you, but to all HYPers whose portfolios deliver the income they want, while being managed in a way that differs from strict HYP guidelines. Which means quite a few regulars here!

MDW1954

Thanks for your input Malcolm. If I misread/misunderstood Terry’s post I apologise. I’m a firm believer that we all have the right to run our HYPs any way we choose. Long may that continue. For me, if a share fails to cut the mustard, they’re out. Pretty sharpish too. I’d rather deploy my funds to shares that are worth investing in, and imho, BT.A certainly isn’t any more.

Ian.

[tjh290633]

If you are your own portfolio manager, then how you manage it is up to you. You can modify your strategy if the occasion demands you so to do.

TJH

But looking at it one way equally it is not what most people on here are doing, because they are not managing their portfolio as PYAD articulated in his HYP articles. I guess looking at it another way they are, but that person is not PYAD, it is themselves.

What we are doing, if following the HYP guidelines, is selecting a portfolio and making minimal adjustments and alterations to it, rather than trading willy-nilly to achieve an objective.

As I recall, PYAD's strictures are to avoid trading and to ignore white noise. Panic and knee jerk reactions to outside events do not play a part. To take an extreme and hypothetical example, were Shell to abandon the oil industry and instead go into cannabis culture and distribution, then reaction to that event would be justifiable, particularly if it turned itself into a charity not paying dividends other than ex gratia payments to hippy communes. Unlikely, I admit.

TJH

[jackdaww]

If you are your own portfolio manager, then how you manage it is up to you. You can modify your strategy if the occasion demands you so to do.

TJH

But looking at it one way equally it is not what most people on here are doing, because they are not managing their portfolio as PYAD articulated in his HYP articles. I guess looking at it another way they are, but that person is not PYAD, it is themselves.

What we are doing, if following the HYP guidelines, is selecting a portfolio and making minimal adjustments and alterations to it, rather than trading willy-nilly to achieve an objective.

As I recall, PYAD's strictures are to avoid trading and to ignore white noise. Panic and knee jerk reactions to outside events do not play a part. To take an extreme and hypothetical example, were Shell to abandon the oil industry and instead go into cannabis culture and distribution, then reaction to that event would be justifiable, particularly if it turned itself into a charity not paying dividends other than ex gratia payments to hippy communes. Unlikely, I admit.

TJH

===========================

so those who are not following hyp guidelines are all trading willy nilly then ?

[moorfield]

What we are doing, if following the HYP guidelines, is selecting a portfolio and making minimal adjustments and alterations to it, rather than trading willy-nilly to achieve an objective.

Very well put. That should be a sticky quote at the top of this board. Willy-nilly traders take note, you know who you are.

[jackdaww]

What we are doing, if following the HYP guidelines, is selecting a portfolio and making minimal adjustments and alterations to it, rather than trading willy-nilly to achieve an objective.

Very well put. That should be a sticky quote at the top of this board. Willy-nilly traders take note, you know who you are.

===============================

a google Definition of willy-nilly.

1 : by compulsion : without choice.

2 : in a haphazard or spontaneous manner.

so what is being talked about here ??

[Dod101]

But back to BT - the answer to the OPs question is simple after all, and shouldn't need 5 pages of 81 posts to get there:

Those who hold should continue to hold, simple as that, as Pyad advocated (viz. "Doing nothing? Nothing Doing." in that Doris article). He did not advocate to "might just dump them on market opening", clearly.

Now there is an interesting piece of advice. Why, in a high yield portfolio, should those who hold a share whose dividend has been cancelled and what is more will not be reinstated for two years (and even then at only 50% of what it was) continue to hold it? The only reason that I can see is because Pyad (note the capital P) advocated it.

Has moorfield not got an independent mind? Can he not see that that is not exactly furthering the cause of a high yield portfolio? Talk about blind faith. Few of us take advice from tipsters in the newspapers, or at least most seem to have a healthy scepticism and yet.........

Dod