The FTSE failing five

[Alaric]

Can some of those that run a pure HYP please explain why they only invest in UK domiciled shares?

The nearest you get to an answer is that there's something called "The HYP Strategy" and that's what it says you must do. But as also noted, many appear to also invest in a more orthodox manner alongside investments limited to high dividend UK large capitalisations.

[Bubblesofearth]

From what I have seen many of the HYPs presented here are equal weight in name only, in that they may start out that way but quickly deviate from being equal-weighted. Whereas true equal-weighted portfolios are rebalanced regularly to ensure that equal weighting is maintained.

These are two distinct strategies. One has equal weight on purchase followed by long-term buy and hold whilst the other rebalances periodically. There are arguments for and against both approaches but my point is that, as far as I've seen, both of these approaches have done better than the cap-weighted market from which the portfolios are derived.

BoE

[dealtn]

Can some of those that run a pure HYP please explain why they only invest in UK domiciled shares?

The nearest you get to an answer is that there's something called "The HYP Strategy" and that's what it says you must do. But as also noted, many appear to also invest in a more orthodox manner alongside investments limited to high dividend UK large capitalisations.

You might get better answers if you posed the question on the HYP-P Board rather than a thread seemingly about 5 individual shares in the FTSE-100. I suspect those pursuing such a strategy are more likely to read your question if asked elsewhere.

[MrFoolish]

Can some of those that run a pure HYP please explain why they only invest in UK domiciled shares?

The nearest you get to an answer is that there's something called "The HYP Strategy" and that's what it says you must do. But as also noted, many appear to also invest in a more orthodox manner alongside investments limited to high dividend UK large capitalisations.

You might get better answers if you posed the question on the HYP-P Board rather than a thread seemingly about 5 individual shares in the FTSE-100. I suspect those pursuing such a strategy are more likely to read your question if asked elsewhere.

Questioning the strategy isn't allowed on the HYP-P board. So one asks here, where those advocates of HYP might not see it. There's a hole in my bucket...

[jackdaww]

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Questioning the strategy isn't allowed on the HYP-P board. So one asks here, where those advocates of HYP might not see it. There's a hole in my bucket...

=======

precisely...

[dealtn]

The nearest you get to an answer is that there's something called "The HYP Strategy" and that's what it says you must do. But as also noted, many appear to also invest in a more orthodox manner alongside investments limited to high dividend UK large capitalisations.

You might get better answers if you posed the question on the HYP-P Board rather than a thread seemingly about 5 individual shares in the FTSE-100. I suspect those pursuing such a strategy are more likely to read your question if asked elsewhere.

Questioning the strategy isn't allowed on the HYP-P board. So one asks here, where those advocates of HYP might not see it. There's a hole in my bucket...

I don't think that's questioning the HYP strategy. More asking why in addition to the UK focussed HYP strategy they don't also follow others that allow a non-UK element. I'm not sure how many actually solely run a "pure HYP" exclusively.

Investment Strategies is also an appropriate Board to ask such a question on, although that is even less likely I imagine to be seen by your target audience of "pure HYP" followers I would imagine. Why does it matter to you to have an answer from the sub-set of investors rather than opinions from the whole?

[MrFoolish]

You might get better answers if you posed the question on the HYP-P Board rather than a thread seemingly about 5 individual shares in the FTSE-100. I suspect those pursuing such a strategy are more likely to read your question if asked elsewhere.

Questioning the strategy isn't allowed on the HYP-P board. So one asks here, where those advocates of HYP might not see it. There's a hole in my bucket...

I don't think that's questioning the HYP strategy. More asking why in addition to the UK focussed HYP strategy they don't also follow others that allow a non-UK element. I'm not sure how many actually solely run a "pure HYP" exclusively.

I can pretty much guarantee raising such a question on the HYP-P board will end up with a dispute about posting policy, so I'm not going to bother. But feel free to ask the question and prove me wrong.

[Arborbridge]

Can some of those that run a pure HYP please explain why they only invest in UK domiciled shares?

Even many of those that run a pure HYP also run other portfolios which include non-UK investments directly or via ITs. Some recent polls suggest only a few on here run a pure HYP and no other non-UK investments.

On this basis, anyone who holds a few UK shares for the long term is likely to have a HYP within it, without even knowing it!

A cream tea has jam and cream, but it doesn't make it a trifle

[Arborbridge]

The nearest you get to an answer is that there's something called "The HYP Strategy" and that's what it says you must do. But as also noted, many appear to also invest in a more orthodox manner alongside investments limited to high dividend UK large capitalisations.

You might get better answers if you posed the question on the HYP-P Board rather than a thread seemingly about 5 individual shares in the FTSE-100. I suspect those pursuing such a strategy are more likely to read your question if asked elsewhere.

Questioning the strategy isn't allowed on the HYP-P board. So one asks here, where those advocates of HYP might not see it. There's a hole in my bucket...

But so far, you are not questioning the strategy, only asking a perfectly reasonable question as a point of information. If you then went on to advise that you thought the strategy was silly, or could be improved....well that would be a different situation. But you weren't thinking of doing that, were you?

[dealtn]

Questioning the strategy isn't allowed on the HYP-P board. So one asks here, where those advocates of HYP might not see it. There's a hole in my bucket...

I don't think that's questioning the HYP strategy. More asking why in addition to the UK focussed HYP strategy they don't also follow others that allow a non-UK element. I'm not sure how many actually solely run a "pure HYP" exclusively.

I can pretty much guarantee raising such a question on the HYP-P board will end up with a dispute about posting policy, so I'm not going to bother. But feel free to ask the question and prove me wrong.

So you ask a question, presumably because you want the information, but now won't bother because that information is now not important enough?

I won't be asking the question as I have no interest in the answer. I have no need to prove you wrong. It seems to me, now, you only asked as a mild provocation, maybe I am wrong. I was only trying to be helpful, so I won't say anymore. Whilst I enjoy the general drift some threads can take it would be better were this to drift back towards its original intent, in my opinion.

[MrFoolish]

I don't think that's questioning the HYP strategy. More asking why in addition to the UK focussed HYP strategy they don't also follow others that allow a non-UK element. I'm not sure how many actually solely run a "pure HYP" exclusively.

I can pretty much guarantee raising such a question on the HYP-P board will end up with a dispute about posting policy, so I'm not going to bother. But feel free to ask the question and prove me wrong.

So you ask a question, presumably because you want the information, but now won't bother because that information is now not important enough?

That is clearly not what I said.

[MrFoolish]

You might get better answers if you posed the question on the HYP-P Board rather than a thread seemingly about 5 individual shares in the FTSE-100. I suspect those pursuing such a strategy are more likely to read your question if asked elsewhere.

Questioning the strategy isn't allowed on the HYP-P board. So one asks here, where those advocates of HYP might not see it. There's a hole in my bucket...

But so far, you are not questioning the strategy, only asking a perfectly reasonable question as a point of information. If you then went on to advise that you thought the strategy was silly, or could be improved....well that would be a different situation. But you weren't thinking of doing that, were you?

It wouldn't be a very satisfying discussion (for me) if I can only ask questions but can't raise reasonable objections to the replies.

[Arborbridge]

Questioning the strategy isn't allowed on the HYP-P board. So one asks here, where those advocates of HYP might not see it. There's a hole in my bucket...

But so far, you are not questioning the strategy, only asking a perfectly reasonable question as a point of information. If you then went on to advise that you thought the strategy was silly, or could be improved....well that would be a different situation. But you weren't thinking of doing that, were you?

It wouldn't be a very satisfying discussion (for me) if I can only ask questions but can't raise reasonable objections to the replies.

So, you are only interested if the result is some sort of controversy, whereas originally you just apparently only wanted information. I doubt anyone would want to answer a leading question which was just a spoiler for an argument, an entrappment. I've seen this sort of drift previously, and most people wouldn't bother to play that game now as it is futile.

[MrFoolish]

But so far, you are not questioning the strategy, only asking a perfectly reasonable question as a point of information. If you then went on to advise that you thought the strategy was silly, or could be improved....well that would be a different situation. But you weren't thinking of doing that, were you?

It wouldn't be a very satisfying discussion (for me) if I can only ask questions but can't raise reasonable objections to the replies.

So, you are only interested if the result is some sort of controversy, whereas originally you just apparently only wanted information. I doubt anyone would want to answer a leading question which was just a spoiler for an argument, an entrappment. I've seen this sort of drift previously, and most people wouldn't bother to play that game now as it is futile.

It is called a "discussion board", not a "question and answer board". People exchange views - that's how it (normally) works.

Anyway, I have posted my question on this board, where it is permitted. Is this ok with you?

[Arborbridge]

Anyway, I have posted my question on this board, where it is permitted. Is this ok with you?

I thought you already had. As far as I'm concerned, you could post it on HYPP too. Maybe I'll do it for you.

[MrFoolish]

Anyway, I have posted my question on this board, where it is permitted. Is this ok with you?

I thought you already had. As far as I'm concerned, you could post it on HYPP too. Maybe I'll do it for you.

Yes, I had (past tense) posted it here, thinking it was the right place. I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition! Feel free to re-post it wherever you see fit.

Right, I'm off to post on the "Flat Earth - Practical" board, as I've got a journey to plan

[SalvorHardin]

Can some of those that run a pure HYP please explain why they only invest in UK domiciled shares?

Just spotted this. Since the HYP purists aren't answering your question (and the thread is wandering into HYP taxonomy), here's the answer.

The rules for running a HYP date back to TMF (The Motley Fool). Early 2000s. They come from observations about the portfolio held by "Doris" over a long period of time. Doris didn't tinker with her shareholdings, she was a buy-and-hold investor.

Rule 1: Only buy UK listed shares. Doris didn't have any foreign shareholdings. Note that a share is foreign unless its primary listing is in London.

Rule 2: Do not buy funds (investment trusts, unit trusts, etc.). Doris didn't own any funds so you shouldn't either.

That's it. Questioning the reasons for restricting yourself in this manner on HYP-P is forbidden.

I don't run anything like a HYP (my portfolio yield is just over 2%). I consider HYP to be a flawed strategy for an entire portfolio because of the above two rules. Lots of HYPers have been diversifying beyond the above two rules; they are not supposed to mention this on HYP-P.

Some HYPers have seen their income collapse during 2020 because of their concentration on UK listed high yielders (and avoiding UK income investment trusts).

I reckon that had Doris held Murray Income and Bank of Nova Scotia, then income investment trusts and Canadian banks would have been acceptable for a "pure" HYP.

As Gollum might say "Nasty foreign shares, nasty funds. We hates them my precious"

[Charlottesquare]

Rather than rubbishing these English companies perhaps we should appreciate their loyalty to us shareholders, and dividends they have paid us over the years, and ignore the enemy within who are happy to take the money but at the first opportunity take every opportunity to drag them down.

No one I think is deliberately rubbishing them but an ability to keep paying dividends is no great attribute if they are largely being paid out of capital or borrowings. Investing is surely about total return not just about dividends especially where the share price has dropped dramatically over the last 20 years. None of the shares quoted could be said to have been a great success for a long while. Some no doubt will come good again, at least I hope they do, but the outlook is not brilliant as far as I can see.

To respond to Wizard, yes that is true, but we are discussing FTSE shares and what is wrong with the UK business environment.

Dod

Not sure with the FTSE 100 how it really in any way casts light on the UK business environment, where they are listed (here) has little bearing on where they earn their profits (in a lot of cases mainly elsewhere) though I suppose it may partly reflect via their business culture (though in a fair few cases, with the larger beasts, that is also not really that UK centric)

There are, of course, some FTSE100 companies more tightly wedded to the UK economy but they are certainly not the bigger ones who move the index but are far more the lesser lights.

These days I tend to more steer away from the UK centric beasties but that is because I am really struggling to foresee what carnage the transition end with the EU might wreak upon the UK economy,(Apart from investing in logistics hubs/warehousing where I can see limited downsides as UK business scrambles to sort out supply chains irrespective).

Today I unloaded two out of three of my UK smaller company trusts because of said uncertainty and will either deploy the money into ITs that focus overseas (foreign earnings and a weaker pound could be an added bonus to their more natural yield) or leave the money in cash to see where the wind blows.

[Dod101]

In response to Charlottesquare, I think it is the UK culture of prizing dividends above almost anything else that is the difference between the UK quoted shares and others irrespective of where they actually trade. Many of those quoted in my original post have at least in retrospect, been over distributing for some years and it has taken Covid and the oil crisis to make that very obvious. The trouble is that if they are not attractive as dividend payers, there is often little else going for them.

Dod

[TUK020]

Can some of those that run a pure HYP please explain why they only invest in UK domiciled shares?

Just spotted this. Since the HYP purists aren't answering your question (and the thread is wandering into HYP taxonomy), here's the answer.

The rules for running a HYP date back to TMF (The Motley Fool). Early 2000s. They come from observations about the portfolio held by "Doris" over a long period of time. Doris didn't tinker with her shareholdings, she was a buy-and-hold investor.

Rule 1: Only buy UK listed shares. Doris didn't have any foreign shareholdings. Note that a share is foreign unless its primary listing is in London.

Rule 2: Do not buy funds (investment trusts, unit trusts, etc.). Doris didn't own any funds so you shouldn't either.

That's it. Questioning the reasons for restricting yourself in this manner on HYP-P is forbidden.

Whereas Aunt Agatha took a slightly more racy approach.
A long term buy and hold investor, Agatha bought a wider variety of shares to get exposure to markets and sectors not covered by the FTSE, including a handful of US Tech shares such as Amazon and Apple.
Agatha has had a relaxed lockdown at her place in Bermuda, where she is right now, sipping cocktails by the yacht club pool, and watching her toyboy pump iron.