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Here Are Some Ideas

General discussions about equity high-yield income strategies
Wizard
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Re: Here Are Some Ideas

#338264

Postby Wizard » September 5th, 2020, 9:37 am

shetland wrote:I am always surprised that Chesnara does not get a mention. Dividend has increased every year for the last 15 years. Business will be unaffected by Brexit. Currently yielding 7.54%

Too small and not in the FTSE350, so discussion would (or at least should) not be permitted on HYP-P.

tjh290633
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Re: Here Are Some Ideas

#338298

Postby tjh290633 » September 5th, 2020, 11:50 am

Wizard wrote:
shetland wrote:I am always surprised that Chesnara does not get a mention. Dividend has increased every year for the last 15 years. Business will be unaffected by Brexit. Currently yielding 7.54%

Too small and not in the FTSE350, so discussion would (or at least should) not be permitted on HYP-P.

High yield trumps FTSE350 .

TJH

Wizard
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Re: Here Are Some Ideas

#338301

Postby Wizard » September 5th, 2020, 11:57 am

tjh290633 wrote:
Wizard wrote:
shetland wrote:I am always surprised that Chesnara does not get a mention. Dividend has increased every year for the last 15 years. Business will be unaffected by Brexit. Currently yielding 7.54%

Too small and not in the FTSE350, so discussion would (or at least should) not be permitted on HYP-P.

High yield trumps FTSE350 .

TJH

In anyone's portfolio they may make the decision, but the HYP-P Guidelines are pretty clear, so I do not see how it can on topic for HYP-P.

tjh290633
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Re: Here Are Some Ideas

#338304

Postby tjh290633 » September 5th, 2020, 12:00 pm

Wizard wrote:
tjh290633 wrote:
Wizard wrote:Too small and not in the FTSE350, so discussion would (or at least should) not be permitted on HYP-P.

High yield trumps FTSE350 .

TJH

In anyone's portfolio they may make the decision, but the HYP-P Guidelines are pretty clear, so I do not see how it can on topic for HYP-P.

Perhaps you had better read the guidelines again, then. Has Chesnara ever been in the FTSE350?

TJH

Wizard
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Re: Here Are Some Ideas

#338316

Postby Wizard » September 5th, 2020, 12:16 pm

tjh290633 wrote:
Wizard wrote:
tjh290633 wrote:High yield trumps FTSE350 .

TJH

In anyone's portfolio they may make the decision, but the HYP-P Guidelines are pretty clear, so I do not see how it can on topic for HYP-P.

Perhaps you had better read the guidelines again, then. Has Chesnara ever been in the FTSE350?

TJH

All that means is that it may be in some portfolios already. However, this is a thread about ideas and in that context we are taliing about a purchase. The Guidelines say:
"When bought, be among the constituents of the FTSE 350 index.
When initially bought, have yields greater than the yield of the FTSE 100 index."
The use of "initially" in the rule about yield suggests an initial purchase must comply but subsequent top-ups can happen at a lower yield. But there is no "initially" in the rule about being a constituent of the FTSE350, so that must cover an initial purchase and top-ups.
So as an idea for a purchase (initial or top-up) it is surely off topic for HYP-P, but could be discussed here.
Maybe you should try and think about what they actually mean and the context of the discussion.

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Re: Here Are Some Ideas

#338324

Postby moorfield » September 5th, 2020, 12:28 pm

Wizard wrote:The Guidelines say:


The Guidelines also say "should" not "must", which the thrust of your comments seem to imply, and this discussion is becoming amusingly Lilliputian (sorry to add to it). My advice, ignore the guidelines and think for yourself. Stop reading Bland, start reading Oakley. As for ideas, I have started buying again: IMB, GTLY and BRW.

Wizard
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Re: Here Are Some Ideas

#338337

Postby Wizard » September 5th, 2020, 1:02 pm

moorfield wrote:
Wizard wrote:The Guidelines say:


The Guidelines also say "should" not "must", which the thrust of your comments seem to imply, and this discussion is becoming amusingly Lilliputian (sorry to add to it). My advice, ignore the guidelines and think for yourself. Stop reading Bland, start reading Oakley. As for ideas, I have started buying again: IMB, GTLY and BRW.

They also say should be ordinary shares not preference shares, but try suggesting LLPD and watch the likes of TJH jump down on you and delete your post! The should be FTSE350 is also the basis for the ptohibition on foreign shares. So I think, unless it suits an HYPer, should does mean must.

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Re: Here Are Some Ideas

#338349

Postby moorfield » September 5th, 2020, 1:34 pm

Wizard wrote:They also say should be ordinary shares not preference shares, but try suggesting LLPD and watch the likes of TJH jump down on you and delete your post!


Yes and no - that's been (partially) dealt with under the Breelander Convention (sorry no time to link that to the relevant post). If the likes of TJH wish to jump down on you, bully for them, they don't manage your portfolio.

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Re: Here Are Some Ideas

#338391

Postby Wizard » September 5th, 2020, 4:51 pm

moorfield wrote:
Wizard wrote:They also say should be ordinary shares not preference shares, but try suggesting LLPD and watch the likes of TJH jump down on you and delete your post!


Yes and no - that's been (partially) dealt with under the Breelander Convention (sorry no time to link that to the relevant post). If the likes of TJH wish to jump down on you, bully for them, they don't manage your portfolio.

In a recent thread on HYP-P I suggested a foreign share, as the Breelander convention allowed that up to 5%. I was rounded on for that comment and a moderator clarified commenting...

Moderator Message:
The guidelines of this board make it very clear that shares in an HYP, as meant here, should "when bought, be among the constituents of the FTSE 350 index". So unless that is the case please let's not discuss them here. Thanks - Chris


Which is why I found the earlier suggestion by TJH that Chesnara could be purchased when it is not a FTSE350 constituent (just because it may have been in the past) so odd.

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Re: Here Are Some Ideas

#338394

Postby SalvorHardin » September 5th, 2020, 5:06 pm

I reckon that there is a Lemonfool equivalent of Godwin's Law:

"As the length of a thread increases, the probability of it turning into a discussion of what is permitted on HYP-Practical approaches 1"

:D

moorfield
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Re: Here Are Some Ideas

#338402

Postby moorfield » September 5th, 2020, 5:57 pm

Wizard wrote:In a recent thread on HYP-P I suggested a foreign share, as the Breelander convention allowed that up to 5%. I was rounded on for that comment and a moderator clarified commenting...


Yes and no, again. Foreign shares might crop up in some HYPs as a result of corporate actions over time - Verizon as a result of the Vodafone spin off, for example - but the mod is clarifying that Verizon wouldn't in itself be a HYP purchase, which is quite understandable.

Wizard
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Re: Here Are Some Ideas

#338410

Postby Wizard » September 5th, 2020, 6:51 pm

moorfield wrote:
Wizard wrote:In a recent thread on HYP-P I suggested a foreign share, as the Breelander convention allowed that up to 5%. I was rounded on for that comment and a moderator clarified commenting...


Yes and no, again. Foreign shares might crop up in some HYPs as a result of corporate actions over time - Verizon as a result of the Vodafone spin off, for example - but the mod is clarifying that Verizon wouldn't in itself be a HYP purchase, which is quite understandable.

We are at cross purposes, my comment specifically relates to a purchase, not a corporate action.

moorfield
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Re: Here Are Some Ideas

#338416

Postby moorfield » September 5th, 2020, 8:13 pm

Wizard wrote:We are at cross purposes, my comment specifically relates to a purchase, not a corporate action.


Ok, so in this instance your coin flip landed on No, and the mod called it correctly. I was describing a picture on the other side of the coin.

Arborbridge
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Re: Here Are Some Ideas

#338458

Postby Arborbridge » September 6th, 2020, 7:51 am

Wizard wrote:My bold.
It's almost like you haven't actually read his post, which included...
miner1000 wrote:...Should we be buying US tech stocks? Should we be investing in emerging markets?...


Of course I read it and I do not appreciate your continual use of sarcasm to undermine posters on various boards. The lowest form of wit, etc.

Miner is an inveterate HYPer and posts only on HYPP: his question was in the context of HYPing.

Arb.

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Re: Here Are Some Ideas

#338461

Postby Arborbridge » September 6th, 2020, 8:34 am

Wizard wrote:
moorfield wrote:
Wizard wrote:The Guidelines say:


The Guidelines also say "should" not "must", which the thrust of your comments seem to imply, and this discussion is becoming amusingly Lilliputian (sorry to add to it). My advice, ignore the guidelines and think for yourself. Stop reading Bland, start reading Oakley. As for ideas, I have started buying again: IMB, GTLY and BRW.

They also say should be ordinary shares not preference shares, but try suggesting LLPD and watch the likes of TJH jump down on you and delete your post! The should be FTSE350 is also the basis for the ptohibition on foreign shares. So I think, unless it suits an HYPer, should does mean must.


It seems to me that you are one of the few who raise obsessive points about HYP rules, and you do so only to create controversy, to be picky. The HYPP board used to be relatively free and easy in this regard and posters would discuss various topics around the point without being censured or attacked for doing so. Now due to the growing obsession with "rules" it seems people on HYPP are treading on eggshells not quite knowing what they can post and what they can't - which has had the effect of destroying that board's formerly wide range of discussion.
It wouldn't be quite so bad if it were HYPers discussing with HYPers but you are a self confessed non-HYPer and failed HYPer. You seem to be happy to undermine, cajole and criticise anything to do with it.

Most people are happy to let a little common sense into the discussion rather than imitating barrack room lawyers. In which case Chesnara could be discussed, has been discussed and also purchased and mentioned. If a company isn't quite big enough, most posters would just say that in their view it didn't fulfill their brief, and move on to buying something else. And as for the "rules", the wording was deliberately leaving some wiggle-room on the matter.

Arb.

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Re: Here Are Some Ideas

#338462

Postby Itsallaguess » September 6th, 2020, 8:51 am

Wizard wrote:
They also say should be ordinary shares not preference shares, but try suggesting LLPD and watch the likes of TJH jump down on you and delete your post!

The should be FTSE350 is also the basis for the prohibition on foreign shares. So I think, unless it suits an HYPer, should does mean must.


Wizard,

Any reasonable observer might consider someone who doesn't run a HYP, but chooses to continually snipe from the sidelines regarding a strategy that others are happy running as being nothing more than a trouble-maker.

Are you not able to move on from what seems to be a very odd obsession with picking this particular scab?

The OP on this topic has clearly shown that it's possible to strongly disagree with a particular strategy and suggest improvements in a very positive way that might encourage people to broaden the scope of their current approach. Are you able to see a difference between that type of contribution and your own persistent sniping?

I tried squash a few times, and it didn't agree with me at all.

If I sought out an on-line squash forum and persistently bombarded them with posts slagging off their sport, it would be a most peculiar way for me to spend my time, wouldn't you agree?

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

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Re: Here Are Some Ideas

#338481

Postby TUK020 » September 6th, 2020, 9:58 am

Wizard wrote:
tjh290633 wrote:
Wizard wrote:In anyone's portfolio they may make the decision, but the HYP-P Guidelines are pretty clear, so I do not see how it can on topic for HYP-P.

Perhaps you had better read the guidelines again, then. Has Chesnara ever been in the FTSE350?

TJH

All that means is that it may be in some portfolios already. However, this is a thread about ideas and in that context we are taliing about a purchase. The Guidelines say:
"When bought, be among the constituents of the FTSE 350 index.
When initially bought, have yields greater than the yield of the FTSE 100 index."
The use of "initially" in the rule about yield suggests an initial purchase must comply but subsequent top-ups can happen at a lower yield. But there is no "initially" in the rule about being a constituent of the FTSE350, so that must cover an initial purchase and top-ups.
So as an idea for a purchase (initial or top-up) it is surely off topic for HYP-P, but could be discussed here.
Maybe you should try and think about what they actually mean and the context of the discussion.


Guys,
Who gives a damn? (this is take 2, the politer version).
Salvor posted a super piece on ideas for investment for high yield share strategies, on the correct board.
If you want to discuss HYP-P guidelines, why don't you take it to the Biscuit Bar? I don't think they are too keen on discussing them on HYP-P.
All this has done is drive another useful and promising thread into the mud.
We are now well beyond the flagellation of an ex-equine. This is into mechanically recovered meat for horseburger.
Very frustrating. Please excuse the rant.
tuk020

Wizard
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Re: Here Are Some Ideas

#338487

Postby Wizard » September 6th, 2020, 10:20 am

Itsallaguess wrote:
Wizard wrote:
They also say should be ordinary shares not preference shares, but try suggesting LLPD and watch the likes of TJH jump down on you and delete your post!

The should be FTSE350 is also the basis for the prohibition on foreign shares. So I think, unless it suits an HYPer, should does mean must.


Wizard,

Any reasonable observer might consider someone who doesn't run a HYP, but chooses to continually snipe from the sidelines regarding a strategy that others are happy running as being nothing more than a trouble-maker.

Are you not able to move on from what seems to be a very odd obsession with picking this particular scab?

The OP on this topic has clearly shown that it's possible to strongly disagree with a particular strategy and suggest improvements in a very positive way that might encourage people to broaden the scope of their current approach. Are you able to see a difference between that type of contribution and your own persistent sniping?

I tried squash a few times, and it didn't agree with me at all.

If I sought out an on-line squash forum and persistently bombarded them with posts slagging off their sport, it would be a most peculiar way for me to spend my time, wouldn't you agree?

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

You may be right IAAG, but I think what frustrates me and winds me up enough to keep me posting is the inconsistent application of those rules. If some people were to report sales and purchases on HYP-P as much as one HYPer does they would no doubt be rounded on for "trading", when it comes to Chesnara, even though it breaches the FTSE350 rule it is OK to discuss it because of who wants to. But Chesnara is no less against the rule than a single foreign share covering a sector with no options from the FTSE350. Maybe I just have to accept that HYP-P is in effect a private members club, albeit one with only very few members.

Anyway I will not distract further from what dtarted as a good thread.

moorfield
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Re: Here Are Some Ideas

#338494

Postby moorfield » September 6th, 2020, 10:43 am

Wizard wrote:You may be right IAAG, but I think what frustrates me and winds me up enough to keep me posting is the inconsistent application of those rules. If some people were to report sales and purchases on HYP-P as much as one HYPer does they would no doubt be rounded on for "trading", when it comes to Chesnara, even though it breaches the FTSE350 rule it is OK to discuss it because of who wants to. But Chesnara is no less against the rule than a single foreign share covering a sector with no options from the FTSE350. Maybe I just have to accept that HYP-P is in effect a private members club, albeit one with only very few members.


So what? You are tilting at windmills and needn't be. We are all (mostly) equity income investors here looking to pursue what is ultimately the same endgame. Just ignore HYP-P and call your own method something else. PHYS perhaps. More open minded debate can certainly be had here on how you can grow your PHYS from a trickle into a torrent, beginning with the OPs excellent suggestions.

Peoples Front of Judea vs. Judean Peoples Front, again. Not the first time I've made that comparison here. Easier to satirize than to snipe, don't you think?

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Re: Here Are Some Ideas

#338597

Postby funduffer » September 6th, 2020, 6:55 pm

Surely discussing HYPP guidelines on this board is OT?

Can we leave this board free from these endless debates please!

FD


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