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Arbit, HYP and OEICs 2021 Q3

General discussions about equity high-yield income strategies
Arborbridge
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Arbit, HYP and OEICs 2021 Q3

#447343

Postby Arborbridge » October 2nd, 2021, 8:24 pm

End of third quarter and I'm all ears as to what my income is doing. In terms of actual £, I am up 21% on this time in 2020 and under 1% up on 2019 adding the three income streams together. When you think about it, provided there are no monsters in the dark wood ahead, that's a very cheerful outcome.

I publish my usual charts below, which are all worked out on the basis of price per unit - which therefore corrects for any re-investment of capital. This unitised income therefore gives the true perspective on "bangs per buck". The first chart shown is how much income a £100-worth of units produced in pounds* - you can see they don't start in the same place simply because the yield of each portfolio was/is different. As expected, the OEIC and HYP streams took a bigger knock than the IT stream because the latter can pay from reserves. On the other hand, those two stream are bouncing back quicker.
*each point is the income generated from the previous four quarters, i.e. one year.

The second chart shows capital movements in pence per unit. Clearly the HYP is progressing significantly worse for capital, and has a long way to bounce back after Covid if it is to catch up in the race.

Image

Image

I hope this is all self explanatory. Comments welcome.

Arb.

Dod101
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Re: Arbit, HYP and OEICs 2021 Q3

#447348

Postby Dod101 » October 2nd, 2021, 9:08 pm

In terms of actual pounds I too am a little ahead of the same time in 2019 and about 10% ahead of 2020 at the same time, but I did not suffer the very large drop in 2020 that many did. I think my year end number will probably be around the 2019 figure but we'll see. I add reinvest very little these days in terms of top ups. I would regard that outcome as very satisfactory. That is across my entire portfolio.

Interesting the way the ITs have stabilised the total income stream in your graph. I have not got these numbers because I have never broken it up that way

Dod

Arborbridge
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Re: Arbit, HYP and OEICs 2021 Q3

#447382

Postby Arborbridge » October 3rd, 2021, 6:59 am

Ahem! I need to make small but significant correction to make to my opening statement. When comparing the year to date, I omitted the OEIC income stream by accident. Having added it back into the past three years, I find the correct statement should be: total investment income 2021 up 19.5% on 2020, but down 0.6% on 2019.

Total investment stream does include about 3% contribution from a bond fund (IP monthly income plus), regarded as separate from the equity income OEICS basket.

Arb.

Arborbridge
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Re: Arbit, HYP and OEICs 2021 Q3

#447383

Postby Arborbridge » October 3rd, 2021, 7:03 am

Dod101 wrote:In terms of actual pounds I too am a little ahead of the same time in 2019 and about 10% ahead of 2020 at the same time, but I did not suffer the very large drop in 2020 that many did. I think my year end number will probably be around the 2019 figure but we'll see. I add reinvest very little these days in terms of top ups. I would regard that outcome as very satisfactory. That is across my entire portfolio.

Interesting the way the ITs have stabilised the total income stream in your graph. I have not got these numbers because I have never broken it up that way

Dod


The ITs have proved pretty robust and as Luni always maintained, they are very good for retirees who need to have a reliable income to pay the bills. For that reason, over the years I have cultivated them and will do so even more in future. It remains to be seen whether they will have to pull back on dividend increases in the next year or two - that's all part of the fascination of carrying on with this exercise - but my gut feeling is that they are likely to stay ahead in the race, both for income and capital. So much for my ability to beat The Wise at their own game :(

Arb.

Itsallaguess
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Re: Arbit, HYP and OEICs 2021 Q3

#447384

Postby Itsallaguess » October 3rd, 2021, 7:04 am

Arborbridge wrote:
I publish my usual charts below, which are all worked out on the basis of price per unit - which therefore corrects for any re-investment of capital.

This unitised income therefore gives the true perspective on "bangs per buck".

The first chart shown is how much income a £100-worth of units produced in pounds* - you can see they don't start in the same place simply because the yield of each portfolio was/is different. As expected, the OEIC and HYP streams took a bigger knock than the IT stream because the latter can pay from reserves. On the other hand, those two stream are bouncing back quicker.


Thanks Arb, I think your comparison charts for these 'real world' diverse income streams are one of the most beneficial long-term records that we've got access to in this community.

Whilst I don't maintain unitised records as well as you have, I can tell you that the income generated from my own primarily IT based income-portfolio has followed a very similar trajectory to the pink 'ArbIT' line shown on your great chart, and as such, I maintain my current view that income-IT's represent a very useful 'sweet-spot' regarding 'hands-off, natural yield' income investment, where slightly lower but more predictable broad income can be traded off against the long-term benefits of highly-diverse and generally rising underlying income, as well as carrying the often very timely benefits of their built-in income-reserves...

As an income-investor myself, that pink ArbIT line seems to me to deliver on broad requirements, given both the general stability of it and the upwards slope as well, over many years, and for it to continue doing so during the turbulent period we've just been through is testament to the robustness of the income-IT approach, in my view..

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

Spet0789
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Re: Arbit, HYP and OEICs 2021 Q3

#447418

Postby Spet0789 » October 3rd, 2021, 10:25 am

I’be said this before, but in my view unless you’re trying to run serious capital (7 figures) for income, an IT portfolio makes a lot more sense than DIY. The relative stability of the dividends is a big plus.

Dod101
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Re: Arbit, HYP and OEICs 2021 Q3

#447435

Postby Dod101 » October 3rd, 2021, 11:31 am

Spet0789 wrote:I’be said this before, but in my view unless you’re trying to run serious capital (7 figures) for income, an IT portfolio makes a lot more sense than DIY. The relative stability of the dividends is a big plus.


Well I have a small number of what might pass as HYP shares and the only one of any significance to cancel its dividend last year was HSBC but I was harmed by the drastic dividend reductions from Shell and Imperial Brands. Held via an IT they would have got lost in the overall portfolio. The financials held up well, Schroders, Phoenix Holdings and Chesnara.

However having a soft spot for ITs myself I can only be pleased that they are being used for the purpose that the highly esteemed Robert Fleming (the more or less founder of the movement) had in mind I think, although of course in these days they were mostly investing very conservatively in mortgages and bonds.

Dod

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Re: Arbit, HYP and OEICs 2021 Q3

#447807

Postby daveh » October 4th, 2021, 5:16 pm

I had a look at the data for income from my IP for the first three qtrs of the year for 2021 compared with 2019 and 2020. In terms of cash received, relative to the first three qtrs of 2019, cash received was only 68% in 2020 , but is back above the 2019 level this year. Not so good when you look in terms of dividend per unit as I'm adding both some new money and reinvesting dividends and the dividends for the first 3 qtrs this year are still below 2019 for both accumulation and income units, but well above the covid year of 2020.


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Re: Arbit, HYP and OEICs 2021 Q3

#448323

Postby funduffer » October 6th, 2021, 4:10 pm

Same chart as Arb's for my HYP, IT's and high yield OEIC:

Image

Similar story - IT's stayed up, HYP plummeted and is now recovering rapidly. OEIC not yet recovering (but will get next dividend in October, so may be picking up).

Notes:
1. HYP and IT's updated monthly, the OEIC quarterly.
2. The OEIC is the Fidelity Moneybuilder Dividend fund.

Hopefully of some interest.

FD

monabri
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Re: Arbit, HYP and OEICs 2021 Q3

#448345

Postby monabri » October 6th, 2021, 5:10 pm

Spet0789 wrote:I’be said this before, but in my view unless you’re trying to run serious capital (7 figures) for income, an IT portfolio makes a lot more sense than DIY. The relative stability of the dividends is a big plus.


I would tend to agree with this...I reckon I'd be richer and would have had less "WTF moments" if I had gone down the IT only route and not the IT + "HYP", the latter has been poor.

Still, give it another 10 years and Boris might have Built Back Better and UK shares will be roaring (anyone holding their breath?)

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Re: Arbit, HYP and OEICs 2021 Q3

#448354

Postby TUK020 » October 6th, 2021, 6:00 pm

monabri wrote:Still, give it another 10 years and Boris might have Built Back Better and UK shares will be roaring (anyone holding their breath?)

Looking out the window, I have just seen a squadron of pigs do a barrel roll in formation

Arborbridge
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Re: Arbit, HYP and OEICs 2021 Q3

#448666

Postby Arborbridge » October 8th, 2021, 9:13 am

TUK020 wrote:
monabri wrote:Still, give it another 10 years and Boris might have Built Back Better and UK shares will be roaring (anyone holding their breath?)

Looking out the window, I have just seen a squadron of pigs do a barrel roll in formation


Celebrating the lack of abattoir workers, no doubt.

mickeypops
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Re: Arbit, HYP and OEICs 2021 Q3

#456021

Postby mickeypops » November 6th, 2021, 10:07 am

The income from my Investment Trust Income Portfolio (see the portfolio review forum) also held up very well during the pandemic. I can also point to Luniversal’s influence in starting me down this method, having been unhappy with the volatility of my initial HYP strategy.


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