The Lemon Fool

Lootman wrote:
But if I ran this site I would slap down Lemons who abuse our goodwill by top-posting too many one-sided rants.

I can't help finding myself wondering how many one-sided rants you would consider about right for Lemons to top-post.

XFool wrote:Somebody seems to think this is "Off topic". It isn't, it's bang on the nail:

Once again, the UK's system is seen to be: "privatise the upside, socialise the downside".

servodude wrote:
Stop talking the system down!
Perhaps they can polish the turds as they are released?

Post of the day

AiY(D)

XFool wrote:Somebody seems to think this is "Off topic". It isn't, it's bang on the nail:

Once again, the UK's system is seen to be: "privatise the upside, socialise the downside".

The entire thread is off topic because this is Company Share News (LSE Main Market). Thames Water is not quoted on the LSE Main Market (or any other one)

Dod

Dod101 wrote:

XFool wrote:Somebody seems to think this is "Off topic". It isn't, it's bang on the nail:

Once again, the UK's system is seen to be: "privatise the upside, socialise the downside".

The entire thread is off topic because this is Company Share News (LSE Main Market). Thames Water is not quoted on the LSE Main Market (or any other one)

Dod

And the thread has now moved here. Nothing to show where it had gone on the company board but I guessed it would be here.

daveh wrote:

Dod101 wrote:
The entire thread is off topic because this is Company Share News (LSE Main Market). Thames Water is not quoted on the LSE Main Market (or any other one)

Dod

And the thread has now moved here. Nothing to show where it had gone on the company board but I guessed it would be here.

And it is just as off topic here. It has nothing to do with Stocks and Share Dealing as Thames Water is not quoted on any stock market. I am sure whoever moved it had good reason though.

Dod

Dod101 wrote:

daveh wrote:And the thread has now moved here. Nothing to show where it had gone on the company board but I guessed it would be here.

And it is just as off topic here. It has nothing to do with Stocks and Share Dealing as Thames Water is not quoted on any stock market. I am sure whoever moved it had good reason though.

Dod

I agree, but as it's privately held difficult to know where to put it. Interesting though and it did cause me to find that worryingly my pension is a major shareholder.

daveh wrote:

Dod101 wrote:
And it is just as off topic here. It has nothing to do with Stocks and Share Dealing as Thames Water is not quoted on any stock market. I am sure whoever moved it had good reason though.

Dod

I agree, but as it's privately held difficult to know where to put it. Interesting though and it did cause me to find that worryingly my pension is a major shareholder.

How about "Bitter Lemons"?

But I agree with the point, and I was astounded to find out it is not a publicly quoted company. How on earth did that happen after it was sold off by (the then) Mrs Thatcher? Didn't every other man and his dog buy shares in TW? Or do I totally have the wrong end of the stick?

Mike4 wrote:I was astounded to find out it is not a publicly quoted company. How on earth did that happen after it was sold off by (the then) Mrs Thatcher? Didn't every other man and his dog buy shares in TW? Or do I totally have the wrong end of the stick?

Once it is a listed company it can be subject to a corporate action such as a tender offer or a full buyout.

Investors usually love that!

Lootman wrote:

Mike4 wrote:I was astounded to find out it is not a publicly quoted company. How on earth did that happen after it was sold off by (the then) Mrs Thatcher? Didn't every other man and his dog buy shares in TW? Or do I totally have the wrong end of the stick?

Once it is a listed company it can be subject to a corporate action such as a tender offer or a full buyout.

Investors usually love that!

Ah right, thanks. So now we know who to blame for the shìt in our rivers and on our beaches. All those who took the gold!

Or have I got the wrong stick, again?

MDW1954 wrote:

Moderator Message:
I'm not the moderator who moved this thread here. But I'm happy to move it elsewhere, if folks have suggestions. -- MDW1954

Merge it with the thread on CAN.

Mike4 wrote:

daveh wrote:I agree, but as it's privately held difficult to know where to put it. Interesting though and it did cause me to find that worryingly my pension is a major shareholder.

How about "Bitter Lemons"?

But I agree with the point, and I was astounded to find out it is not a publicly quoted company. How on earth did that happen after it was sold off by (the then) Mrs Thatcher? Didn't every other man and his dog buy shares in TW? Or do I totally have the wrong end of the stick?

The 10 Water Authorities were privatised in 1989.

After Thames Water was listed as a PLC and it was taken over by RWE of Germany in 2001. They subsequently sold it on to the current owners.

Southern Water went the same way - listed as a plc and then taken over - as have Anglian Water. Not sure what happened to Yorkshire or Northumbrian water. I suspect taken over and ultimately sold to Pension funds or similar.

Dŵr Cymru Welsh Water is now a not for profit company following a number of takeovers which ultimately led to the business failing.

Of the 10 privatised Water Authorities the only ones still listed on the London Stock Exchange I believe are Severn Trent, Pennon (a combination of water authorities in the South West - formally South West Water and Wessex Water) and United Utilities, initially listed as North West Water.

Crazbe7

Crazbe7 wrote:
Of the 10 privatised Water Authorities the only ones still listed on the London Stock Exchange I believe are Severn Trent, Pennon (a combination of water authorities in the South West - formally South West Water and Wessex Water) and United Utilities, initially listed as North West Water.

So why does this thread exist on this board?

Crazbe7 wrote:

Mike4 wrote:
How about "Bitter Lemons"?

But I agree with the point, and I was astounded to find out it is not a publicly quoted company. How on earth did that happen after it was sold off by (the then) Mrs Thatcher? Didn't every other man and his dog buy shares in TW? Or do I totally have the wrong end of the stick?

The 10 Water Authorities were privatised in 1989.

After Thames Water was listed as a PLC and it was taken over by RWE of Germany in 2001. They subsequently sold it on to the current owners.

Southern Water went the same way - listed as a plc and then taken over - as have Anglian Water. Not sure what happened to Yorkshire or Northumbrian water. I suspect taken over and ultimately sold to Pension funds or similar.

Dŵr Cymru Welsh Water is now a not for profit company following a number of takeovers which ultimately led to the business failing.

Of the 10 privatised Water Authorities the only ones still listed on the London Stock Exchange I believe are Severn Trent, Pennon (a combination of water authorities in the South West - formally South West Water and Wessex Water) and United Utilities, initially listed as North West Water.

Crazbe7

I thought Macquarie had it for a while - getting out a few years back but leaving the debt where it was?
..and then getting in to Southern Water a few years later.

It seems as if their existence as financial assets is completely disassociated from their job as a utility

servodude wrote:

Crazbe7 wrote:
The 10 Water Authorities were privatised in 1989.

After Thames Water was listed as a PLC and it was taken over by RWE of Germany in 2001. They subsequently sold it on to the current owners.

Southern Water went the same way - listed as a plc and then taken over - as have Anglian Water. Not sure what happened to Yorkshire or Northumbrian water. I suspect taken over and ultimately sold to Pension funds or similar.

Dŵr Cymru Welsh Water is now a not for profit company following a number of takeovers which ultimately led to the business failing.

Of the 10 privatised Water Authorities the only ones still listed on the London Stock Exchange I believe are Severn Trent, Pennon (a combination of water authorities in the South West - formally South West Water and Wessex Water) and United Utilities, initially listed as North West Water.

Crazbe7

I thought Macquarie had it for a while - getting out a few years back but leaving the debt where it was?
..and then getting in to Southern Water a few years later.

It seems as if their existence as financial assets is completely disassociated from their job as a utility

Macquarrie were holders of Thames Water for a period so Crazbe7 seems to have missed that step. In fact Macquarrie are blamed for the asset stripping of Thames Water to leave it overly debt ridden as it appears to be today.

Dod

Dod101 wrote:

servodude wrote:
I thought Macquarie had it for a while - getting out a few years back but leaving the debt where it was?
..and then getting in to Southern Water a few years later.

It seems as if their existence as financial assets is completely disassociated from their job as a utility

Macquarrie were holders of Thames Water for a period so Crazbe7 seems to have missed that step. In fact Macquarrie are blamed for the asset stripping of Thames Water to leave it overly debt ridden as it appears to be today.

Dod

They have their finger in so many pies it's hard to keep track!
I hope Ofwat asked them nicely not to strip what they can from Southern Water this time

Yorkshire water changed its name to Kelda and went private , I think to the Canadian Teachers Pension Fund and maybe others .

SPURLEY wrote:Yorkshire water changed its name to Kelda and went private , I think to the Canadian Teachers Pension Fund and maybe others .

My father-in-law retired in 1970 at which time he was chairman of the Waterworks Committee on Barnsley County Borough Council. Not long afterwards they were subsumed into the Yorkshire Water Authority. I think that this was down to the then Labour government, but I could be wrong. Our own water supply came from the local water company, which remained separate from Southern Water and still is to this day.

Whereas drainage came under the various river authorities, water supply was not universally affected.

TJH

Dod101 wrote:

servodude wrote:
I thought Macquarie had it for a while - getting out a few years back but leaving the debt where it was?
..and then getting in to Southern Water a few years later.

It seems as if their existence as financial assets is completely disassociated from their job as a utility

Macquarrie were holders of Thames Water for a period so Crazbe7 seems to have missed that step. In fact Macquarrie are blamed for the asset stripping of Thames Water to leave it overly debt ridden as it appears to be today.

Dod

Just read an article on the FT about Thames Water. They comment that it was bought by Macquarie who loaded it up with debt as part of the purchase process, they then took £3b out in dividends over their short ownership period and then offloaded it to the present owners.

daveh wrote:

Dod101 wrote:
Macquarrie were holders of Thames Water for a period so Crazbe7 seems to have missed that step. In fact Macquarrie are blamed for the asset stripping of Thames Water to leave it overly debt ridden as it appears to be today.

Dod

Just read an article on the FT about Thames Water. They comment that it was bought by Macquarie who loaded it up with debt as part of the purchase process, they then took £3b out in dividends over their short ownership period and then offloaded it to the present owners.

So a really good financial play on their part
But a pretty poor return for the customers, who lets be fair - often have no real viable alternative for their water and sewage (or for the airport they need to use or the telco infrastructure to their area)

If you treat utilities as simply assets to profit from it is hardly surprising that this is what happens