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IP Group PLC (ticker - IPO).

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WickedLester
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Re: IP Group PLC (ticker - IPO).

#402904

Postby WickedLester » April 9th, 2021, 2:00 pm

It seems to trade at a significant premium to NAV so I would guess it may depend on what that 15% stake in ON is worth upon IPO. I don't usually buy into funds trading at a premium to NAV and I wouldn't place too much store in the p/e when earnings are usually valuation uplifts from funding rounds.

It's not one for me, mainly due to the premium to NAV.

torata
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Re: IP Group PLC (ticker - IPO).

#403075

Postby torata » April 10th, 2021, 12:48 am

ReallyVeryFoolish wrote:...
Though trading at share price highs, it doesn't look too expensive judged by a PE of about 7.5.
...


They certainly aren't trading at share price highs! I'm still down 30% on my purchase price.
But at least I didn't buy Allied Minds, which was the other one I considered at the time. :roll:

Oxford Nanopore hasn't yet come to market, so there's still a disparity between what it's valued at in the IP portfolio, and what it's *expected* to be valued at, but that wouldn't be a reason to buy IP, I think.

I've done much better with my other 'early stage investor' punt vehicle, HG Capital.

torata

WickedLester
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Re: IP Group PLC (ticker - IPO).

#403095

Postby WickedLester » April 10th, 2021, 8:47 am

If you're looking for some Biotech action without paying top dollar have you considered Arix Bioscience? It trades at a significant discount to NAV and has a very large cash pile after making a large profit on the disposal of one of its investments. Simon Thompson likes them. I have a few shares there.

I can't comment on the quality of their investments as I am not a scientist and there has been a bit of a spat with a major shareholder so you might like to consider these points also.

simoan
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Re: IP Group PLC (ticker - IPO).

#403119

Postby simoan » April 10th, 2021, 10:18 am

ReallyVeryFoolish wrote:
WickedLester wrote:If you're looking for some Biotech action without paying top dollar have you considered Arix Bioscience? It trades at a significant discount to NAV and has a very large cash pile after making a large profit on the disposal of one of its investments. Simon Thompson likes them. I have a few shares there.

I can't comment on the quality of their investments as I am not a scientist and there has been a bit of a spat with a major shareholder so you might like to consider these points also.

Thank you. Never heard of Arix Bioscience, will take a look thanks.

RVF

Maybe I could save you some time.... Arix Bioscience has never generated a single penny of free cashflow!! It is currently valued at 256x revenue estimates for FY 2021. In the past 5 years they have diluted existing shareholders to the tune of 58% (share count has increased to 142m from 90m). I simply never invest in these kind of companies which only make sense as an asset play and where I have no way to value the assets. The only thing that is obvious, is whatever the assets are, they generate very little revenue and no cash. What do you think Terry Smith would make of that? :)

All the best, Si

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Re: IP Group PLC (ticker - IPO).

#403123

Postby simoan » April 10th, 2021, 10:26 am

ReallyVeryFoolish wrote:
simoan wrote:
ReallyVeryFoolish wrote:Thank you. Never heard of Arix Bioscience, will take a look thanks.

RVF

Maybe I could save you some time.... Arix Bioscience has never generated a single penny of free cashflow!! It is currently valued at 256x revenue estimates for FY 2021. In the past 5 years they have diluted existing shareholders to the tune of 58% (share count has increased to 142m from 90m). I simply never invest in these kind of companies which only make sense as an asset play and where I have no way to value the assets. The only thing that is obvious, is whatever the assets are, they generate very little revenue and no cash. What do you think Terry Smith would make of that? :)

All the best, Si

Thank you, Simoan. I imagine Mr Smith would file the whole idea in the bin.

RVF

Well, there's also probably a good reason why you'd not heard of the company either. Neither had I but it's little wonder it's never appeared on any of my screens! :)

All the best, Si

WickedLester
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Re: IP Group PLC (ticker - IPO).

#403319

Postby WickedLester » April 10th, 2021, 10:43 pm

simoan wrote:
ReallyVeryFoolish wrote:
WickedLester wrote:If you're looking for some Biotech action without paying top dollar have you considered Arix Bioscience? It trades at a significant discount to NAV and has a very large cash pile after making a large profit on the disposal of one of its investments. Simon Thompson likes them. I have a few shares there.

I can't comment on the quality of their investments as I am not a scientist and there has been a bit of a spat with a major shareholder so you might like to consider these points also.

Thank you. Never heard of Arix Bioscience, will take a look thanks.

RVF

Maybe I could save you some time.... Arix Bioscience has never generated a single penny of free cashflow!! It is currently valued at 256x revenue estimates for FY 2021. In the past 5 years they have diluted existing shareholders to the tune of 58% (share count has increased to 142m from 90m). I simply never invest in these kind of companies which only make sense as an asset play and where I have no way to value the assets. The only thing that is obvious, is whatever the assets are, they generate very little revenue and no cash. What do you think Terry Smith would make of that? :)

All the best, Si


I'm afraid you're wrong simoan. Arix received a very large cash payment for the sale of VelosBio to Merck (£142m) and now sits on a very substantial pile of cash. The point about investing in these sort of companies is that for long periods they don't generate cash as the investments are in early stages but you hope that they will get two or three winners and you will make a pile from them. Pretty much the same rule applies to all of these sorts of funds.

I know you don't like blue sky investing much but I think there is a place for it but I keep my blue sky investments to a low percentage of my overall portfolio.

WickedLester
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Re: IP Group PLC (ticker - IPO).

#409161

Postby WickedLester » May 4th, 2021, 7:58 am

I notice this news from IP today:

https://www.investegate.co.uk/ip-group- ... 00143298X/

IP Group committed £18.7million to the round, being its full pre-emptive allocation. Following completion of the round, IP Group has a 14.5% undiluted beneficial stake in Oxford Nanopore, valued at £359 million .

WickedLester
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Re: IP Group PLC (ticker - IPO).

#577839

Postby WickedLester » March 22nd, 2023, 10:21 pm

I bought a few shares in these recently, paying in the high 60's, so at the top of the recent spike. Not great timing but I feel they may now be interesting with the shares trading at an approx 50% discount to a much reduced NAV (most of this is due to the fall in the listed ONT holding) with much of the mkt cap covered by cash and the stake in ONT with the rest of the investments in the price for a small premium. I can see the NAV falling further as funding rounds may be at lower prices for a while but I'd hope the NAV won't fall below the current price.

They pay a small dividend so at least there is some income while I wait to see if NAV and the price improves eventually.


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