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Fan Led Review

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dealtn
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Fan Led Review

#460735

Postby dealtn » November 25th, 2021, 7:42 am

Made public at 10pm last night.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59406087

It was released to clubs a little earlier, but I haven't managed to read, let alone digest, all 162 pages yet. An interesting development and likely to be welcomed by some that believe certain sections in the game have too much power.

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Re: Fan Led Review

#460759

Postby BobbyD » November 25th, 2021, 9:30 am

dealtn wrote:Made public at 10pm last night.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59406087

It was released to clubs a little earlier, but I haven't managed to read, let alone digest, all 162 pages yet. An interesting development and likely to be welcomed by some that believe certain sections in the game have too much power.


Yes what football really needs is a regulator set up by a populist and corrupt government to help keep it's house in order, and oh yes a transfer tax... Yipee!

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Re: Fan Led Review

#460770

Postby dubre » November 25th, 2021, 10:02 am

most of which the "fans" will pay for.

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Re: Fan Led Review

#460809

Postby dealtn » November 25th, 2021, 12:20 pm

BobbyD wrote:
dealtn wrote:Made public at 10pm last night.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59406087

It was released to clubs a little earlier, but I haven't managed to read, let alone digest, all 162 pages yet. An interesting development and likely to be welcomed by some that believe certain sections in the game have too much power.


Yes what football really needs is a regulator set up by a populist and corrupt government to help keep it's house in order, and oh yes a transfer tax... Yipee!


Presumably you think something different is required. It is a fan led review - I am assuming you are a fan - did you participate? How have you communicated your views, or how you think a more appropriate (but as yet uncommunicated) alternative should be implemented?

My industry rarely gets the opportunity for engagement at this level of Government (of whatever level of populism or corruption).

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Re: Fan Led Review

#460819

Postby SteMiS » November 25th, 2021, 12:49 pm

BobbyD wrote:
dealtn wrote:Made public at 10pm last night.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59406087

It was released to clubs a little earlier, but I haven't managed to read, let alone digest, all 162 pages yet. An interesting development and likely to be welcomed by some that believe certain sections in the game have too much power.


Yes what football really needs is a regulator set up by a populist and corrupt government to help keep it's house in order, and oh yes a transfer tax... Yipee!

Who do you want to regulate the industry since it's quite clear (to me anyway) that the industry, at least at Premier League level, is unable to regulate itself ?

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Re: Fan Led Review

#460823

Postby BobbyD » November 25th, 2021, 12:59 pm

dealtn wrote:
BobbyD wrote:
dealtn wrote:Made public at 10pm last night.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59406087

It was released to clubs a little earlier, but I haven't managed to read, let alone digest, all 162 pages yet. An interesting development and likely to be welcomed by some that believe certain sections in the game have too much power.


Yes what football really needs is a regulator set up by a populist and corrupt government to help keep it's house in order, and oh yes a transfer tax... Yipee!


Presumably you think something different is required. It is a fan led review - I am assuming you are a fan - did you participate? How have you communicated your views, or how you think a more appropriate (but as yet uncommunicated) alternative should be implemented?

My industry rarely gets the opportunity for engagement at this level of Government (of whatever level of populism or corruption).


I wasn't even aware it was going on. Fan led is an interesting phrase... In order for their to be a solution there would have to be a problem, to what problem are you seeking suggestions for a solution to?

...and whatever the problem the solution is most definitely not oversite by a government which is riddled with corruption and has a recent history of using Premiership football clubs as a populist punching bag whilst awarding untendered contracts to friends and donors, or using the exact same measures they decried football clubs for using in their own business.

My solution in the absence of a specifically identified problem, is for the government to concentrate on mismanaging the country and allow football clubs to get on with the mismanagement of football. The real problems in the game are at the other end of the pitch with FIFA and UEFA, but there's no political expedient to picking a fight with them.

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Re: Fan Led Review

#460825

Postby BobbyD » November 25th, 2021, 1:00 pm

SteMiS wrote:Who do you want to regulate the industry since it's quite clear (to me anyway) that the industry, at least at Premier League level, is unable to regulate itself ?


It's a business, it should be regulated by the courts.

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Re: Fan Led Review

#460828

Postby dealtn » November 25th, 2021, 1:10 pm

BobbyD wrote:I wasn't even aware it was going on. Fan led is an interesting phrase... In order for their to be a solution there would have to be a problem, to what problem are you seeking suggestions for a solution to?



Well if you are actually interested in the underlying issues, and the reasons for the review, I would suggest reading the Foreward of the report.

If you'd rather just spleen vent about the current government that's fine, but I won't rise to engage I'm afraid.

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Re: Fan Led Review

#460831

Postby SteMiS » November 25th, 2021, 1:16 pm

BobbyD wrote:
SteMiS wrote:Who do you want to regulate the industry since it's quite clear (to me anyway) that the industry, at least at Premier League level, is unable to regulate itself ?


It's a business, it should be regulated by the courts.

So not even by the Premier League, the FA, EFL, UEFA, FIFA ?
Last edited by SteMiS on November 25th, 2021, 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Fan Led Review

#460832

Postby BobbyD » November 25th, 2021, 1:17 pm

dealtn wrote:
BobbyD wrote:I wasn't even aware it was going on. Fan led is an interesting phrase... In order for their to be a solution there would have to be a problem, to what problem are you seeking suggestions for a solution to?



Well if you are actually interested in the underlying issues, and the reasons for the review, I would suggest reading the Foreward of the report.

If you'd rather just spleen vent about the current government that's fine, but I won't rise to engage I'm afraid.


It's not a 'spleen vent' I think their intervention is inappropriate, and given their recent behaviour which I have accurately (please correct me if I'm wrong) described sickeningly hypocritical, and under taken with no concern other than political gain. Again I'd love to hear a decent rebuttal. A link to the report would also help if you think reading it would be beneficisal.

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Re: Fan Led Review

#460833

Postby BobbyD » November 25th, 2021, 1:18 pm

SteMiS wrote:
BobbyD wrote:
SteMiS wrote:Who do you want to regulate the industry since it's quite clear (to me anyway) that the industry, at least at Premier League level, is unable to regulate itself ?


It's a business, it should be regulated by the courts.

So not even by the Premier League ?


The Premierleague is a business, not a regulator.

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Re: Fan Led Review

#460834

Postby dealtn » November 25th, 2021, 1:21 pm

BobbyD wrote:
dealtn wrote:
BobbyD wrote:I wasn't even aware it was going on. Fan led is an interesting phrase... In order for their to be a solution there would have to be a problem, to what problem are you seeking suggestions for a solution to?



Well if you are actually interested in the underlying issues, and the reasons for the review, I would suggest reading the Foreward of the report.

If you'd rather just spleen vent about the current government that's fine, but I won't rise to engage I'm afraid.


It's not a 'spleen vent' I think their intervention is inappropriate, and given their recent behaviour which I have accurately (please correct me if I'm wrong) described sickeningly hypocritical, and under taken with no concern other than political gain. Again I'd love to hear a decent rebuttal. A link to the report would also help if you think reading it would be beneficisal.


My copy is an advanced copy not for public distribution I'm afraid. It should (now) be publicly available.

I think this should be it.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... mes-future

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Re: Fan Led Review

#460837

Postby SteMiS » November 25th, 2021, 1:31 pm

BobbyD wrote:
SteMiS wrote:
BobbyD wrote:
It's a business, it should be regulated by the courts.

So not even by the Premier League ?


The Premierleague is a business, not a regulator.

Interesting perspective. Not one I agree with but I suspect we have totally different views of the sport.

Which team do you support?

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Re: Fan Led Review

#460838

Postby BobbyD » November 25th, 2021, 1:32 pm

1.1 As noted in the introduction to this report, this Review was established in response to three
crises – the collapse of Bury, COVID-19 and finally the attempt by six English clubs to join a
new European Super League – an existential threat to the English football pyramid.


Well, I'm blown away by the strength of the case made here.

Bury. Clubs and businesses do from time to time go under. The idea that the collapse of Bury is an event of such significance that it is a factor in deciding to dedicate significant state resources to an investigation of the sector is, would you consider far fetched to be spleen venting?

COVID 19. Yeah, seriously?

ESL. None of the governments business, but a real opportunity to appear to be down with the proles.

What am I missing?

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Re: Fan Led Review

#460842

Postby BobbyD » November 25th, 2021, 1:41 pm

SteMiS wrote:
BobbyD wrote:
SteMiS wrote:So not even by the Premier League ?


The Premierleague is a business, not a regulator.

Interesting perspective. Not one I agree with but I suspect we have totally different views of the sport.

Which team do you support?


It's not a perspective it's a fact, for which I provided a reliable source (The PL themselves, in our last discussion). It's a company. It's shareholders are the 20 clubs in the PL at the time in question.

I think it's a very badly run company, on both the footballing and business sides, but a company it is.

Liverpool, but that is really neither here nor there. This is a politics not football, and I'm a pro-market liberal under any and all circumstances.

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Re: Fan Led Review

#460843

Postby dealtn » November 25th, 2021, 1:42 pm

BobbyD wrote:
1.1 As noted in the introduction to this report, this Review was established in response to three
crises – the collapse of Bury, COVID-19 and finally the attempt by six English clubs to join a
new European Super League – an existential threat to the English football pyramid.


Well, I'm blown away by the strength of the case made here.

Bury. Clubs and businesses do from time to time go under. The idea that the collapse of Bury is an event of such significance that it is a factor in deciding to dedicate significant state resources to an investigation of the sector is, would you consider far fetched to be spleen venting?

COVID 19. Yeah, seriously?

ESL. None of the governments business, but a real opportunity to appear to be down with the proles.

What am I missing?


Possibly that these were the timeline events that triggered the review, not the basis in itself for the terms of reference of the review.

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Re: Fan Led Review

#460844

Postby BobbyD » November 25th, 2021, 1:47 pm

dealtn wrote:
BobbyD wrote:
1.1 As noted in the introduction to this report, this Review was established in response to three
crises – the collapse of Bury, COVID-19 and finally the attempt by six English clubs to join a
new European Super League – an existential threat to the English football pyramid.


Well, I'm blown away by the strength of the case made here.

Bury. Clubs and businesses do from time to time go under. The idea that the collapse of Bury is an event of such significance that it is a factor in deciding to dedicate significant state resources to an investigation of the sector is, would you consider far fetched to be spleen venting?

COVID 19. Yeah, seriously?

ESL. None of the governments business, but a real opportunity to appear to be down with the proles.

What am I missing?


Possibly that these were the timeline events that triggered the review, not the basis in itself for the terms of reference of the review.


It literally says that the review was instigated in response to the collapse of a single club, a global pandemic and some private companies deciding to found another business. Tenuous would be generous. It's a political act perpetrated on the thinnest and most transparent of pretences, and it will harm football.

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Re: Fan Led Review

#460846

Postby dealtn » November 25th, 2021, 1:50 pm

BobbyD wrote:... and it will harm football.


What page number are you up to? How do you know?

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Re: Fan Led Review

#460847

Postby SteMiS » November 25th, 2021, 1:52 pm

BobbyD wrote:
SteMiS wrote:
BobbyD wrote:The Premierleague is a business, not a regulator.

Interesting perspective. Not one I agree with but I suspect we have totally different views of the sport.

Which team do you support?


It's not a perspective it's a fact, for which I provided a reliable source (The PL themselves, in our last discussion). It's a company. It's shareholders are the 20 clubs in the PL at the time in question.

I think it's a very badly run company, on both the footballing and business sides, but a company it is.

That doesn't mean it doesn't act as a regulator, however inconsistently...

BobbyD wrote:Liverpool, but that is really neither here nor there. This is a politics not football, and I'm a pro-market liberal under any and all circumstances.

I don't think being a pro market liberal is inconsistent with regulation. The market is full of regulation to prevent dominant actors (like the Big 6, for example) abusing their power to the detriment of the industry and it's consumers...

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Re: Fan Led Review

#460849

Postby BobbyD » November 25th, 2021, 2:04 pm

dealtn wrote:
BobbyD wrote:... and it will harm football.


What page number are you up to? How do you know?


So you aren't disputing the grounds for instigating the investigation are grasping?

Because it isn't about football its about politics.

Because its recommendations are bad.

Because unwarranted government intervention is always bad.

Because it will divert resources which would have been used to improve the game to ensuring compliance and developing political cover.

Still I look forwards to the Yorkshire racism scandal and Covid 19, and the the periodic warnings from Rugby Prem that bankruptcies are on the horizon sparking similar enquiries and proposals of government oversight...


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