Rugby Union Autumn Internationals

[terminal7]

There was a time that a healthy debate was to be had about international rugby on this site. It may well be that that was amongst the Fools of yesteryear. In the chance of sparking off a debate let me just opine that the supremacy of the southern hemisphere sides has been re-enforced by results over the last few weeks. Any views? Of course France last night in Paris against the AB may have stemmed the tide.

T7

[didds]

1) there is now such a plethora of international rugby there is no unqieness incvolved. somebody will be playing somebody next week, yet again etc.

2) i wouldn't call victories with less that one score difference (OK, 9 points by SA over england) a "supremacy", especially 3 years out from the next RWC. Its rather more indicative that the general standard across the globe is converging, where a match resuklt hinges on one tactical decsion in 80 minutes - potentially with squad developmnent in mind oiver an actual win . In 3 months time no one will GAF over this month's scores.

The more important fixture yesterday was Scotland v Portugal - yes it demoinstrated the gulf between tier 1 and 2, but at the same time how can WR/we expect tier 2 to step up to the plate unless they catualkly get exposure to playing tier1 nationms.

It also demonstrated exactly why the idea of swapping Italy for Portugal in the 6N, or making it 7N, won't make that competition more worthwhile.

[tjh290633]

The more important fixture yesterday was Scotland v Portugal - yes it demoinstrated the gulf between tier 1 and 2, but at the same time how can WR/we expect tier 2 to step up to the plate unless they catualkly get exposure to playing tier1 nationms.

It also demonstrated exactly why the idea of swapping Italy for Portugal in the 6N, or making it 7N, won't make that competition more worthwhile.

To my mind the important point was that Portugal aquitted themselves pretty well, getting 3 tries and almost a fourth.

However Italy do get the occasional win in the Six Nations. Looks like both Portugal and Georgia have a little way to go. It's only by them playing Tier 1 clubs that their progress can be judged.

TJH

[terminal7]

The more important fixture yesterday was Scotland v Portugal - yes it demoinstrated the gulf between tier 1 and 2, but at the same time how can WR/we expect tier 2 to step up to the plate unless they catualkly get exposure to playing tier1 nationms.

It also demonstrated exactly why the idea of swapping Italy for Portugal in the 6N, or making it 7N, won't make that competition more worthwhile.

To my mind the important point was that Portugal aquitted themselves pretty well, getting 3 tries and almost a fourth.

However Italy do get the occasional win in the Six Nations. Looks like both Portugal and Georgia have a little way to go. It's only by them playing Tier 1 clubs that their progress can be judged.

TJH

HT score Italy 6 Georgia 17

T7

[Laughton]

Perhaps the lack of debate is, in part, caused by the powers that be's decision to grant TV rights to a channel that not many people have access to (me included).

[didds]

However Italy do get the occasional win in the Six Nations. Looks like both Portugal and Georgia have a little way to go.

TJH

indeed. But lest not forget before that win against Wales in 2022 6N, there was a lot of clamour to kick them out completely.
fast forward two years they then beat Wales (last overall), Scotland (4th), drew with France (2nd) and lost by just 3 points to England (3rd) so on that basis they are now doing better than an occasional win

[didds]

HT score Italy 6 Georgia 17

T7

Oooo.... just snuck a win at FT... bum squeaky time for Italy!

Official highlights:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6v2K6njEXU

[didds]

Perhaps the lack of debate is, in part, caused by the powers that be's decision to grant TV rights to a channel that not many people have access to (me included).

Amen to that excellent point.

[terminal7]

Perhaps the lack of debate is, in part, caused by the powers that be's decision to grant TV rights to a channel that not many people have access to (me included).

Amen to that excellent point.

Yes indeed - contrast that with the French that 'safeguard' home matches for mainstream (free) channels. Indeed, that's how I watched - otherwise I would not have seen any match in the Autumn internationals. There was a time that a whole raft of major sporting events were 'safeguarded' in the UK - then of course Murdoch and others came knocking.

T7

[didds]

Yes indeed - contrast that with the French that 'safeguard' home matches for mainstream (free) channels. Indeed, that's how I watched - otherwise I would not have seen any match in the Autumn internationals.

after all these years I never knew that!

How does one access these French channels? Just like watching ITV/BBC "live" online ?

Not that id know which french channel to search for

[terminal7]

Yes indeed - contrast that with the French that 'safeguard' home matches for mainstream (free) channels. Indeed, that's how I watched - otherwise I would not have seen any match in the Autumn internationals.

after all these years I never knew that!

How does one access these French channels? Just like watching ITV/BBC "live" online ?

Not that id know which french channel to search for

Slightly disingenuous to imply free! You will need a satellite dish aimed 19 degrees at Astra plus a decoder plus a TNT card. That lot will cost you around £400/£500 including installation. The hardware lasts maybe 10 years and the card needs renewing after 4 years. So a rough calculation would be about £1 pw. Of course if you lived in France - all free.

The rugby for instance and say Tour de France are on TF1. You also get other international rugby matches and sports competitions that are pay only UK. And of course you get hours of philosophising by French intellectuals and the occasional Guardian journo. Unfortunately, at the moment there is a French speaking ex UK MP on French TV trying to flog some piffle.

Couple of points - my wife is French so no financial CBA needed at this household. Money well spent.

Secondly, potential TNT card subscribers are vetted - social media postings carefully reviewed - hence no cards made available to Brexiteers. Though I am sure we could come to an arrangement.

T7

[BigB]

There was a time that a healthy debate was to be had about international rugby on this site. It may well be that that was amongst the Fools of yesteryear. In the chance of sparking off a debate let me just opine that the supremacy of the southern hemisphere sides has been re-enforced by results over the last few weeks. Any views? Of course France last night in Paris against the AB may have stemmed the tide.

T7

Agree. Of course SA and NZ were still top 3 sides, but after another poor TRC (The Rugby Championship) with another poor Australia showing this summer (where imv they contrive results in the first 4 rounds to have championship deciders in the last 2 weekends - it's great credit to the 6N that results never feel contrived) - the key for me has been the re-emergence of Australia as a top force - 12 months with Joe Schmidt and they now look a proper force again. Also, some of that was just Eddie Jones not picking international class players like Hooper and Tom Wright. Maybe their resurgence will revive some interest in Super Rugby in Australia.

Steve Borthwick might be appreciating the attention that Gatland and WRU are getting yesterday/today - there's a chance he'd be under pressure.

As an Ireland fan, I'm nervous that we look stale and predictable, with a weak set-piece. Could be on the edge of a new weaker cycle as this generation of top players move on and it takes time to embed new blood. Not sure it will help with Farrell going off on Lions duty now.

I think France and Scotland still look solid/good.

[terminal7]

There was a time that a healthy debate was to be had about international rugby on this site. It may well be that that was amongst the Fools of yesteryear. In the chance of sparking off a debate let me just opine that the supremacy of the southern hemisphere sides has been re-enforced by results over the last few weeks. Any views? Of course France last night in Paris against the AB may have stemmed the tide.

T7

Agree. Of course SA and NZ were still top 3 sides, but after another poor TRC (The Rugby Championship) with another poor Australia showing this summer (where imv they contrive results in the first 4 rounds to have championship deciders in the last 2 weekends - it's great credit to the 6N that results never feel contrived) - the key for me has been the re-emergence of Australia as a top force - 12 months with Joe Schmidt and they now look a proper force again. Also, some of that was just Eddie Jones not picking international class players like Hooper and Tom Wright. Maybe their resurgence will revive some interest in Super Rugby in Australia.

Steve Borthwick might be appreciating the attention that Gatland and WRU are getting yesterday/today - there's a chance he'd be under pressure.

As an Ireland fan, I'm nervous that we look stale and predictable, with a weak set-piece. Could be on the edge of a new weaker cycle as this generation of top players move on and it takes time to embed new blood. Not sure it will help with Farrell going off on Lions duty now.

I think France and Scotland still look solid/good.

.

Agree by and large with your analysis BigB.

As a Welsh supporter - this is a dark time. The whole system in Wales is broken and the production line of decent young players (not just scrum halves) has completely dried up. Difficult to see one Welsh player that deserves to be in the Lions next year.

France/NZ at weekend was a flip of a coin match.

You failed to mention Argentina - shaded by Ireland and then crushed Italy. They have had a number of well deserved successes in the Southern Hemisphere tournie this year as well as some thumping losses. Their match against France this Friday could be a humdinger if they are on song. Unfortunately will not be able to watch as out of UK/France.

T7

[BigB]

Oops - I think Argentina are a bit of an in-between side (not dissimilar to Scotland) - not quite at the top 4/5 level but could often comfortably dismantle numerous other sides nominally called Tier1 sides.

Removal of Jaguares from S14/15 has not helped (Fiji/Drua now getting that benefit with their inclusion).

TRC results can be flattering as I truly believe SA/NZ can beat Argentina at will atm, but with the odd setup of fixtures in TRC because of travel/schedules, it really helps if you have teams beating each other in the first 4 rounds, so that it's still open in R5/6.

[9873210]

Aregentina is pretty remote. This is a problem at both club and national level.

Geographically the Jaguares would be as good a fit for the Gallagher league or the Top 14 as the current Super Rugby. They're a little closer to South Africa but it's still a hike.

The idea of a Southern Hemisphere Championship or league is a very Euro-centric idea. The Southern hemisphere is half the world, not a small part of what isn't even a proper continent.

Los Pumas really need Brazil and Chile to improve.

[9873210]

Just for fun.

For three years the Tokyo Sunwolves and the Jaguares in Buenos Aries were in Super Rugby. These cities are over 18,300 km apart*. That's a few km more or less than the distance between London and Auckland.* This has got to hold the record for the most absurd "regional" sports league and will continue to do so until there are teams on the Moon.


* Depending on exact end points (I use airports, LHR-AKL and EZE-HND) and whether you model the Earth as a sphere or ellipsoid)