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How will clubs survive this?

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dealtn
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Re: How will clubs survive this?

#302083

Postby dealtn » April 20th, 2020, 9:21 pm

Leothebear wrote:My estimate was based previous reading, that the players train for 3 hours a day for 4 days a week. Then match day.

You dispute this, so I repeat please enlighten me.


As I have mentioned previously on this site I am an official at a non-league club. Along with the other Directors we know a lot about the running of a football club, not just from a business perspective, but the footballing side too.

I am not going to mention the name of the club, it's not important. Suffice to say I would imagine at least 99% of football followers would have heard of it, and I would estimate the vast majority of non-football supporters too.

Our players are part time, and as such I would expect them to "work" less than full time players do. Our squad will train together 3 times a week for 3-4 hours a session. In addition to this there will be individual sessions for fitness, speed, or for specialists such as goalkeepers, other tailored sessions. On top of this there is additional physio, recuperation, and other non-football work. On match days they will be "at work" for 6 hours for a home match, and away matches would be more (unless you want to count travel as non-work commuting!). There might be 2 matches each week, some only 1.

In addition the players will have other football commitments such as media work, interacting with fans etc. For league clubs there will be other community work as well.

I'm sure many (like me) would dream of such a "job", but to think it is just 12-15 hours of "fun" would be a mistake in reality.

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Re: How will clubs survive this?

#302096

Postby Leothebear » April 20th, 2020, 10:31 pm

OK I'm happy to accept I'm wrong. The poor buggers may have to work up to 24 hours a week. I never in my wildest dreams thought it was that hard.

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Re: How will clubs survive this?

#302133

Postby dealtn » April 21st, 2020, 8:47 am

Leothebear wrote:OK I'm happy to accept I'm wrong. The poor buggers may have to work up to 24 hours a week. I never in my wildest dreams thought it was that hard.


You're difficult to please.

Remember the vast majority get to be there through a mixture of talent and hard work, with only a very few making it after perhaps 10+ years of training (and avoiding injury). Then they have to stay there as new talent comes through, for in most cases very short careers.

Interesting that it seems more are happy to accept the fame and fortune of pop stars, or film stars, but are more grudging towards sports stars. I guess that's human nature as more of us think "I could do that", despite our lack of talent, than is the case in music or acting where we accept our limitations.

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Re: How will clubs survive this?

#302165

Postby Leothebear » April 21st, 2020, 10:33 am

Interesting that it seems more are happy to accept the fame and fortune of pop stars, or film stars, but are more grudging towards sports stars. I guess that's human nature as more of us think "I could do that", despite our lack of talent, than is the case in music or acting where we accept our limitations.


If pop stars don't work they don't get paid. Ditto actors.
Roma players have forgone their money to help their club and non-playing staff.
I think they have set a fine example, that none of the PL players have chosen.

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Re: How will clubs survive this?

#302175

Postby jackdaww » April 21st, 2020, 11:03 am

dealtn wrote:
jackdaww wrote:
dealtn wrote:
Sounds quite extreme to me. There are a lot more likely ways to catch the virus that are currently possible and allowed, than playing contact sport.


===============================

could you give some examples ??

:?: :?:


Travelling close to others in a train or tube, working in close proximity, sharing a bed ...

Why do you think sharing a football field, for instance, is more likely to lead to a fatality?


======================================

these players are in VERY CLOSE proximity - two players trying to win headed ball ??.

they are breathing FLAT OUT at MAXIMUM strength most of the time , spraying virus yards if they are infected.

they cant were masks.

train travellers are at risk , but they are breathing normally in a resting position and can wear masks .

same for office workers , and bed sharers , unless involved in strenuous activity - which is even higher risk .

:!:

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Re: How will clubs survive this?

#302202

Postby dealtn » April 21st, 2020, 12:46 pm

jackdaww wrote:
dealtn wrote:
jackdaww wrote:
===============================

could you give some examples ??

:?: :?:


Travelling close to others in a train or tube, working in close proximity, sharing a bed ...

Why do you think sharing a football field, for instance, is more likely to lead to a fatality?


======================================

these players are in VERY CLOSE proximity - two players trying to win headed ball ??.

they are breathing FLAT OUT at MAXIMUM strength most of the time , spraying virus yards if they are infected.

they cant were masks.

train travellers are at risk , but they are breathing normally in a resting position and can wear masks .

same for office workers , and bed sharers , unless involved in strenuous activity - which is even higher risk .

:!:


I guess we will have to disagree then. Football, and other sports, are looking to reopen ahead of any likely vaccine availability, although unlikely in front of spectators at least initially. They will be taking advice on this I am sure, but "heavy breathing" sportsmen sharing a pitch seems more likely to be allowed than "breathing normally" spectators, so make your own conclusions.

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Re: How will clubs survive this?

#302220

Postby jackdaww » April 21st, 2020, 1:31 pm

dealtn wrote:
jackdaww wrote:
dealtn wrote:
Travelling close to others in a train or tube, working in close proximity, sharing a bed ...

Why do you think sharing a football field, for instance, is more likely to lead to a fatality?


======================================

these players are in VERY CLOSE proximity - two players trying to win headed ball ??.

they are breathing FLAT OUT at MAXIMUM strength most of the time , spraying virus yards if they are infected.

they cant were masks.

train travellers are at risk , but they are breathing normally in a resting position and can wear masks .

same for office workers , and bed sharers , unless involved in strenuous activity - which is even higher risk .

:!:


I guess we will have to disagree then. Football, and other sports, are looking to reopen ahead of any likely vaccine availability, although unlikely in front of spectators at least initially. They will be taking advice on this I am sure, but "heavy breathing" sportsmen sharing a pitch seems more likely to be allowed than "breathing normally" spectators, so make your own conclusions.


==============================

the reality may be unpalatable.

anyone allowing these sports to restart will have deaths on their hands.

what happens if a player contracts covid19 .

it would all have to be shut down again.

it just wont happen .

:( :(

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Re: How will clubs survive this?

#302222

Postby dealtn » April 21st, 2020, 1:42 pm

jackdaww wrote:
dealtn wrote:
jackdaww wrote:
======================================

these players are in VERY CLOSE proximity - two players trying to win headed ball ??.

they are breathing FLAT OUT at MAXIMUM strength most of the time , spraying virus yards if they are infected.

they cant were masks.

train travellers are at risk , but they are breathing normally in a resting position and can wear masks .

same for office workers , and bed sharers , unless involved in strenuous activity - which is even higher risk .

:!:


I guess we will have to disagree then. Football, and other sports, are looking to reopen ahead of any likely vaccine availability, although unlikely in front of spectators at least initially. They will be taking advice on this I am sure, but "heavy breathing" sportsmen sharing a pitch seems more likely to be allowed than "breathing normally" spectators, so make your own conclusions.


==============================


it just wont happen .



I'm afraid that's just your opinion, the truth will be known in due course.

German clubs are already training.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52176562

Europe's top leagues are preparing to continue their seasons.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52291542

Belarus didn't even stop.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52122767

Not sure how you can be so confident in your opinion to be honest.

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Re: How will clubs survive this?

#302253

Postby jackdaww » April 21st, 2020, 3:22 pm

dealtn wrote:
jackdaww wrote:
dealtn wrote:
I guess we will have to disagree then. Football, and other sports, are looking to reopen ahead of any likely vaccine availability, although unlikely in front of spectators at least initially. They will be taking advice on this I am sure, but "heavy breathing" sportsmen sharing a pitch seems more likely to be allowed than "breathing normally" spectators, so make your own conclusions.


==============================


it just wont happen .



I'm afraid that's just your opinion, the truth will be known in due course.

German clubs are already training.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52176562

Europe's top leagues are preparing to continue their seasons.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52291542

Belarus didn't even stop.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52122767

Not sure how you can be so confident in your opinion to be honest.


=========================

not 100% sure .

expediency, denial , greed, wishful thinking , self serving justification sometimes prevail .

and then how to deal with the first players to get infected .

boris has been there - i cant see him nodding it through ...

:roll:

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Re: How will clubs survive this?

#302404

Postby dealtn » April 22nd, 2020, 9:43 am

Leothebear wrote:
Interesting that it seems more are happy to accept the fame and fortune of pop stars, or film stars, but are more grudging towards sports stars. I guess that's human nature as more of us think "I could do that", despite our lack of talent, than is the case in music or acting where we accept our limitations.


If pop stars don't work they don't get paid. Ditto actors.
Roma players have forgone their money to help their club and non-playing staff.
I think they have set a fine example, that none of the PL players have chosen.


Maybe your issue is to do with the absolute top of the pyramid of footballers. I have very little experience of that to be honest.

This is an insight into the reality lower down which you, or others, might not appreciate.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52368844

regards

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Re: How will clubs survive this?

#302431

Postby Leothebear » April 22nd, 2020, 10:54 am

Maybe your issue is to do with the absolute top of the pyramid of footballers. I have very little experience of that to be honest.


Hi Dealtn - of course it's the EPL players I'm criticizing.

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Re: How will clubs survive this?

#303067

Postby Howyoudoin » April 25th, 2020, 12:35 am

Leothebear wrote:
Maybe your issue is to do with the absolute top of the pyramid of footballers. I have very little experience of that to be honest.


Hi Dealtn - of course it's the EPL players I'm criticizing.


This is going to be extremely controversial . . . but this whole corona/lockdown thing has made me realise that football means little to me, now, in the grand scheme of things. And I can’t see that changing.

The Premier League, the FA, UEFA and FIFA, all seem to be trying to outdo each other with when they will be ‘back’.
Well , my opinion is that things won’t be ‘back’ to normal until at least 2021. And if they do try to re-start the league, in this Country and others, are there enough punters who care?

You can count me out from that list for a start. I’ve previously been happy to pay hundreds of pounds to watch my team play around the world but those days are long gone.

Whether we like it or not, football has changed forever. This season will, eventually, be made null and void, which will rightly annoy Liverpool fans.

And the rest of the clubs in the Premier League will either breathe a sigh of relief (West Ham) or wonder what might have been (Sheff Utd).

HYD

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Re: How will clubs survive this?

#303088

Postby jackdaww » April 25th, 2020, 8:34 am

Howyoudoin wrote:
Leothebear wrote:
Maybe your issue is to do with the absolute top of the pyramid of footballers. I have very little experience of that to be honest.


Hi Dealtn - of course it's the EPL players I'm criticizing.


This is going to be extremely controversial . . . but this whole corona/lockdown thing has made me realise that football means little to me, now, in the grand scheme of things. And I can’t see that changing.

The Premier League, the FA, UEFA and FIFA, all seem to be trying to outdo each other with when they will be ‘back’.
Well , my opinion is that things won’t be ‘back’ to normal until at least 2021. And if they do try to re-start the league, in this Country and others, are there enough punters who care?

You can count me out from that list for a start. I’ve previously been happy to pay hundreds of pounds to watch my team play around the world but those days are long gone.

Whether we like it or not, football has changed forever. This season will, eventually, be made null and void, which will rightly annoy Liverpool fans.

And the rest of the clubs in the Premier League will either breathe a sigh of relief (West Ham) or wonder what might have been (Sheff Utd).

HYD


=======================

agreed .

its all over for this year .

holland has started the ball rolling ....

:)

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Re: How will clubs survive this?

#303547

Postby didds » April 27th, 2020, 10:54 am

Late to the debate - apologies. Ive had a nasty virus to deal with for a couple of weeks...

So... pro sport.

Same as any business really that in effect is not in a bracket of being "ncecessary" or able tpo operate under a different model (eg pou7bs with off sales or home delivery etc rather than being a pub ...)

Being very "hard" about it all if businesses/clubs go under duri9ng this its extremely tragic, ut its not different from a lighting shop or a cushion shop or a hairdresser ec ... extremely unformtuate but them's the breaks. [Im not trying to trivialise anyhtung here - eco0nomic devatastion is inevitable for many :-( ]


maybe its a "darwinian" solution... trimming down the "cgaff" in the system. I incliude pro cricket and pro rugby union and lkeague in all of this too.
maybe the system was crawling along and not realisrtic and all this has hiughlighted how much chaff there is in the system.

The ASrts might bhe another sikilar example...

didds

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Re: How will clubs survive this?

#303570

Postby Howyoudoin » April 27th, 2020, 12:16 pm

didds wrote:Late to the debate - apologies. Ive had a nasty virus to deal with for a couple of weeks...

So... pro sport.

Same as any business really that in effect is not in a bracket of being "ncecessary" or able tpo operate under a different model (eg pou7bs with off sales or home delivery etc rather than being a pub ...)

Being very "hard" about it all if businesses/clubs go under duri9ng this its extremely tragic, ut its not different from a lighting shop or a cushion shop or a hairdresser ec ... extremely unformtuate but them's the breaks. [Im not trying to trivialise anyhtung here - eco0nomic devatastion is inevitable for many :-( ]


maybe its a "darwinian" solution... trimming down the "cgaff" in the system. I incliude pro cricket and pro rugby union and lkeague in all of this too.
maybe the system was crawling along and not realisrtic and all this has hiughlighted how much chaff there is in the system.

The ASrts might bhe another sikilar example...

didds




Coleyfish has returned! Yay!!!!

HYD

PS said with affection and hope no-one takes offence, it’s certainly not my intention.

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Re: How will clubs survive this?

#304064

Postby Leothebear » April 29th, 2020, 10:45 am

Obviously typed on a phone keyboard wearing gardening gloves.

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Re: How will clubs survive this?

#304227

Postby gryffron » April 29th, 2020, 6:45 pm

Ok, so here's a suggestion. This seems like the place for the discussion.

During training, you test your players regularly. Every couple of days. Expensive, perhaps, but not beyond the means of leading soccer clubs. Anyone tests positive, all training and matches are suspended.

Before the game, you take your players and coaching staff. Quarantine them in a hotel. Away teams often do this already, so I don't see it is a big deal. Test everyone for covid-19. 24 hours later, tests complete and assuming all clear, you take to the field and play against a similarly tested opposition.

Media staff can generally socially distance. Might look a little less professional having only a handful of cameras rather than the 30+ we've become used to, but what's the issue.

Problems with that? Players at fractionally more risk during training. But they're all young and fit. It's hardly likely to kill anyone. In fact, the frequent testing might actually make them safer than they are in the general population.

Gryff

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Re: How will clubs survive this?

#304362

Postby didds » April 30th, 2020, 8:32 am

Gry's suggestion is the basis of what Ive read on cricket websites.

whilst the SD etc stuff is valid nonetheless youd also have to include in the numbers "covered" all the extraneous staff aside from players and coaches ... catering, cleaning, groundsmen, official setc etc. That's not to say they can't SD etc - but either large areas of the groiund and other spaces have to be divided so there can be no possibility of cross contamination eg door handles, toilets etc ( a local brreewery has in effect done this I read yesterday so the brewer can brew, and the brewery staff of husband and wife can administer etc separartely ). OR these extraneous staff are tested etc and then kept on the inside for the duration of the event.

Its not anything that cannot be accomplished I am sure - but its extra layers of "stuff". Which for me I cannot see happening at all regularly for a potentially quite/very long period. Rugby may manage it with only one game typically a week. But football wth two games a week probably, cricket woith even three or four (though T20 could maybe stick three or four teams in an environment and play back to back matches etc.

worthy of thought.

Ooo - just thought... how would they get over the TMO/VAR/3rd unpire etc scenario and the TV producer's vans etc wrt SD? I guess the TMOO etc coud be seprate on a internet link etc - but OBU vans are pretty cramped. how would they get over SD to have techies and producers in a very cramped lorry?

didds

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Re: How will clubs survive this?

#304441

Postby gryffron » April 30th, 2020, 11:32 am

OBU vans are pretty cramped because they have 95 cameras. If you had far fewer cameras you'd need far fewer production staff.

Could always run the competition like World Cup/Euros, and simply quarantine all the teams for the whole event. With or without their families at manager's choice. How many games are left in the Prem? 9? - 5 weeks.

Since no-one has home advantage anyway with stadiums empty, could play all the games at a handful of neutral grounds. London? Birmingham? That would reduce the travelling too. Not like there's a shortage of hotel space is it?

Gryff

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Re: How will clubs survive this?

#304506

Postby Leothebear » April 30th, 2020, 1:49 pm

Football without a live audience won't work.
Football with an audience conforming to social distancing won't work.

Social distancing will be with us for at least another 7 months.

Football is knackered.


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