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ESL

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Leothebear
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ESL

#405393

Postby Leothebear » April 19th, 2021, 2:55 pm

I have yet to hear anyone say a word in favour of this - other than Glazer and he would say that wouldn't he.
I think it sucks for a multitude of reasons. Anyone here anything to offer?

kiloran
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Re: ESL

#405395

Postby kiloran » April 19th, 2021, 3:00 pm

Clubs are always complaining they have too many games, so expecting to play in the ESL and continue playing in the existing leagues and cups makes no sense. Unless the extra money they get from the ESL will allow them to build (even!) bigger squads, and that's not good.

Not too sure why Boris has thrown his oar in. Can't see this is anything to do with government

--kiloran

AleisterCrowley
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Re: ESL

#405406

Postby AleisterCrowley » April 19th, 2021, 3:33 pm

Wolves of course
We are only a few places/5 points behind [expletive deleted] and we were 'instrumental in the launch of the European Cup (now known as the UEFA Champions League) " so sayeth Wkipedia

dionaeamuscipula
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Re: ESL

#405426

Postby dionaeamuscipula » April 19th, 2021, 5:00 pm

Snorvey wrote:Apparently there are 3 clubs still be announced to make up the traitorous 15.

Any guesses? Macron has praised the French Club (i.e. Paris Street German) for not participating. But AFAIK, they haven't said they're NOT participating....opening one's bouche prematurely again are we Sir?

The only other teams that might fit the bill might be Bayern Munching and Rangers*/Celtic*

*Joke.


A look at the co-efficient list explains why Spurs have been invited (14th) and not Everton (77th).

They may have been bounced into an announcement a bit earlier than they wanted, pretty clear the three they expected were PSG, Bayern and Dortmund, but so far at least they are all out as are Porto. Assuming all German and French teams are out, Ajax is the most likely alternative, perhaps Sevilla, Roma, Napoli if they have to go deeper in Spain and Italy, but really they will want clubs from elsewhere.

The next up in the co-efficient list (not from Eng, Ger, Ita, Esp, Fra:

Shakhtar Donetsk
Salzburg
Benfica
Zenit
Basle

Surprising how quickly the names tail off.

Celtic 46th, Rangers 52nd.

https://www.uefa.com/memberassociations ... /#/yr/2021

DM

BobbyD
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Re: ESL

#405432

Postby BobbyD » April 19th, 2021, 5:38 pm

Leothebear wrote:I have yet to hear anyone say a word in favour of this - other than Glazer and he would say that wouldn't he.
I think it sucks for a multitude of reasons. Anyone here anything to offer?


If Boris, FIFA and UEFA are vehemently against something it must be good.

Lootman
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Re: ESL

#405471

Postby Lootman » April 19th, 2021, 9:28 pm

Snorvey wrote:Apparently there are 3 clubs still be announced to make up the traitorous 15.

Any guesses? Macron has praised the French Club (i.e. Paris Street German) for not participating. But AFAIK, they haven't said they're NOT participating....opening one's bouche prematurely again are we Sir?

The only other teams that might fit the bill might be Bayern Munching and Rangers*/Celtic*

*Joke.

It would make sense for PSG to join this since of all the clubs mentioned, PSG dominate their country in a way that few others do. They must get very bored outside of the Champions League.

But without Bayern and Dortmund, it cannot truly be a "Super" league. Presumably the German government has their clubs over some kind of barrel, in that very Teutonic way that they do.

stewamax
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Re: ESL

#405475

Postby stewamax » April 19th, 2021, 9:33 pm

I am not interested in football as a game.

But I am intrigued to hear Bojo, Oliver Dowden and even the Duke of Cambridge sounding off against the formation of ESL. Dowden is quoted as saying 'We are examining every option from governance reform to competition law and mechanisms that allow football to take place'.

- UEFA and that bastion of moral rectitude FIFA are – or act as if there were – monopolies with divine right to legislate ‘for the good of the sport’

- our present Government is supposedly pro competition, entrepreneurship and the profit motive – the essence of capitalism tempered only by restriction of monopolies.

There is a disconnect somewhere.

Lootman
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Re: ESL

#405477

Postby Lootman » April 19th, 2021, 9:49 pm

stewamax wrote:I am not interested in football as a game.

But I am intrigued to hear Bojo, Oliver Dowden and even the Duke of Cambridge sounding off against the formation of ESL. Dowden is quoted as saying 'We are examining every option from governance reform to competition law and mechanisms that allow football to take place'.

- UEFA and that bastion of moral rectitude FIFA are – or act as if there were – monopolies with divine right to legislate ‘for the good of the sport’

- our present Government is supposedly pro competition, entrepreneurship and the profit motive – the essence of capitalism tempered only by restriction of monopolies.

There is a disconnect somewhere.

There are parallels in other sports. There was the famous Kerry Packer intervention to create the World Series in cricket, which led to test cricket bans for individual players. And since then the India cricket premier league.

Packer tried the same thing with rugby but that didn't work out so well. Of course rugby has been fundamentally split into two variants since forever, and nobody seems to mind or care.

US baseball is split into two non-geographic sections and leagues, with the two only intersecting for the world series and the all-star game.

Sports as different as boxing and chess have been fraught with such disputes, fractures and conflicting titles.

BobbyD
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Re: ESL

#405502

Postby BobbyD » April 20th, 2021, 5:16 am

stewamax wrote:I am not interested in football as a game.

But I am intrigued to hear Bojo, Oliver Dowden and even the Duke of Cambridge sounding off against the formation of ESL. Dowden is quoted as saying 'We are examining every option from governance reform to competition law and mechanisms that allow football to take place'.

- UEFA and that bastion of moral rectitude FIFA are – or act as if there were – monopolies with divine right to legislate ‘for the good of the sport’

- our present Government is supposedly pro competition, entrepreneurship and the profit motive – the essence of capitalism tempered only by restriction of monopolies.

There is a disconnect somewhere.


Our present government is dedicated to populist pearl clutching and promoting any story which doesn't involve them giving contracts to college room mates without going through a tendering process... This is perfect for them, and completely in keeping with the way they have been singling out football clubs during the pandemic while making no noise at all about other far larger companies with far higher annual profits making use of furlough.

FIFA and UEFA are leaches feeding off the top level club game. There are numerous cases of FIFA officials being found guilty of corruption in a court of law, and they are so jealous of the club game that we have to stop it every 4 days for a completely pointless round of international friendlies. BTW one of the reasons it's so difficult to get tickets for the latter stages of the CL is that about half the seats in the stadium are commandeered by UEFA. Probably best not to mention stopping the season part way through so we can hold the World Cup in Qatar...

What's really funny is watching left wing football commentators and fans groups lining up with Boris, FIFA and UEFA, whose anthem they routinely boo...

Oh, and UEFA declaring themselves bastions of free and open competition whilst threatening to kick clubs out of the CL for signing up to a competition they haven't sanctioned, FIFA threatening to kneecap the popularity of the World Cup, which is basically their entire income, by banning the best players in the World*...

This is one hell of a flex.

* I like the World Cup, but I'd be delighted if Liverpool players were banned from internationals. Countries overuse and under care for them. Less miles on their legs, less travel fatigue, fewer injuries, a proper summer off every year... Bring it on.

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Re: ESL

#405505

Postby JamesMuenchen » April 20th, 2021, 7:30 am

Lootman wrote:There are parallels in other sports. There was the famous Kerry Packer intervention to create the World Series in cricket, which led to test cricket bans for individual players. And since then the India cricket premier league.

Packer tried the same thing with rugby but that didn't work out so well. Of course rugby has been fundamentally split into two variants since forever, and nobody seems to mind or care.

US baseball is split into two non-geographic sections and leagues, with the two only intersecting for the world series and the all-star game.

Sports as different as boxing and chess have been fraught with such disputes, fractures and conflicting titles.

Perhaps the funniest example is the Ultimate Fighting Championship - the biggest but still one many Mixed-Martial-Arts promotions.

The UFC regularly creates an "Interim" title and then holds a "Reunification" bout to declare the winner "Undisputed".

We're used to this in boxing, of course, but that is between the 4 different global promotions (WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO). The UFC does it all in-house :lol:

Mike4
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Re: ESL

#405509

Postby Mike4 » April 20th, 2021, 7:41 am

BobbyD wrote:
Our present government is dedicated to populist pearl clutching and promoting any story which doesn't involve them giving contracts to college room mates without going through a tendering process...


I think it is this exactly, combined with Boris's keen awareness that at the next general election, the millions of working class votes lent to him to "get Brexit done" are likely to be taken back again. So he needs to find a new rabbit to pull from the hat, and thinks this could be it.

GoSeigen
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Re: ESL

#405522

Postby GoSeigen » April 20th, 2021, 8:36 am

stewamax wrote:I am not interested in football as a game.

But I am intrigued to hear Bojo, Oliver Dowden and even the Duke of Cambridge sounding off against the formation of ESL. Dowden is quoted as saying 'We are examining every option from governance reform to competition law and mechanisms that allow football to take place'.

- UEFA and that bastion of moral rectitude FIFA are – or act as if there were – monopolies with divine right to legislate ‘for the good of the sport’

- our present Government is supposedly pro competition, entrepreneurship and the profit motive – the essence of capitalism tempered only by restriction of monopolies.

There is a disconnect somewhere.


Well Boris of course is in favour of breaking our ties with Europe and forging a resurgent Britain allied with the Commonwealth countries. So I guess he's going to get his mates to form an alternative league with Nairobi City Stars, Karachi United, Team Wellington and other footballing giants. The league will of course be delayed because most of the Commonwealth is on our red shithole-country list; perhaps the initial matches will be played online?

GS

JamesMuenchen
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Re: ESL

#405543

Postby JamesMuenchen » April 20th, 2021, 10:00 am

Seeing as embittered Remainers have managed to turn the discussion to Boris and Brexit, as usual, can anyone explain how UK teams are able to play in Europe now anyway?

If "bands can't tour" without FoM, why can football teams?

didds
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Re: ESL

#405567

Postby didds » April 20th, 2021, 11:12 am

JamesMuenchen wrote:If "bands can't tour" without FoM, why can football teams?


presumably becasue currently matches are played behind closed doors ie no crowds to keep socially distanced, not shouting and singing etc. Where the match's result is the goal in a competition (pun unintended!)

Live performamces dont have that raison d'etre. Live bands are in the territory of falling trees in a forest.

JamesMuenchen
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Re: ESL

#405570

Postby JamesMuenchen » April 20th, 2021, 11:30 am

didds wrote:
JamesMuenchen wrote:If "bands can't tour" without FoM, why can football teams?


presumably becasue currently matches are played behind closed doors ie no crowds to keep socially distanced, not shouting and singing etc. Where the match's result is the goal in a competition (pun unintended!)

Live performamces dont have that raison d'etre. Live bands are in the territory of falling trees in a forest.

I'm not asking about the supporters/covid, I mean the staff and players/EU Freedom of Movement.

Leothebear
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Re: ESL

#405577

Postby Leothebear » April 20th, 2021, 12:02 pm

FWIW I think that the goose is about to run low on golden eggs. There is only so much that can be squeezed out of football.

The ESL may well go ahead if there's as much financial muscle behind it as I've read.
The football may entertain some. It may make money. But closed shop football is a move which against the traditional spirit of the game and won't be popular in "old world" football.

I heard on R4 this morning that the notion of the ESL was born after Leicester City had the gall to win the PL and taking a 'big six' place in the ECL.

They want it all.

BobbyD
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Re: ESL

#405584

Postby BobbyD » April 20th, 2021, 12:52 pm

Leothebear wrote:I heard on R4 this morning that the notion of the ESL was born after Leicester City had the gall to win the PL and taking a 'big six' place in the ECL.


Radio 4 wouldn't be my preferred source for football history...

This article is more than 18 years old

G-14 'considering Super League'

European football's leading clubs are thinking about turning the Champions League into a two-division "Super League".

According to reports in Italian newspaper Gazzetta dello Sport, the leading clubs who make up the G-14 group are unhappy that Uefa has opted to cut the second phase of the Champions League from next season - a move that reduces each club's number of potential European matches by four.


- https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... ry.sport17

stewamax
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Re: ESL

#405600

Postby stewamax » April 20th, 2021, 2:12 pm

GoSeigen wrote:Well Boris of course is in favour of breaking our ties with Europe and forging a resurgent Britain allied with the Commonwealth countries. So I guess he's going to get his mates to form an alternative league with Nairobi City Stars, Karachi United, Team Wellington and other footballing giants.

It is all part of his secret (shushhh...) plan for a Europe-wide Eton Field Game league.

stewamax
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Re: ESL

#405691

Postby stewamax » April 20th, 2021, 10:04 pm

Manchester City has now seceded from the ESL even before the ink is dry.
It looks as if Chelsea will follow suit.
If any more UK rats desert the ship, ESL may have to remove the S.
How about EAR -
"European Also Rans
We didn't listen to our fans"

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Re: ESL

#405692

Postby gryffron » April 20th, 2021, 10:06 pm

stewamax wrote:It is all part of his secret (shushhh...) plan for a Europe-wide Eton Field Game league.


Bet England would lose at that too. :(


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