Here we go again - Aus v Eng

[pje16]

I'm so glad I'm not into cricket
Our performance is shameful
truly and utterly abysmal

[cinelli]

I thought it would be interesting to compare the performances of England's batsmen in the last four calendar years. Here are the statistics. It certainly puts Root's amazing year into context.

2018                2019                2020                2021
         Runs Av'ge          Runs Av'ge          Runs Av'ge          Runs Av'ge

Foakes    277 69.25 Stokes    821 45.61 Stokes    641 58.27 Root     1708 61.00
Buttler   760 44.71 Root      851 37.00 Crawley   580 52.73 Malan     308 34.22
Woakes    223 44.60 Pope      110 36.67 Sibley    615 47.31 Woakes    173 28.83
Root      948 41.22 Burns     824 35.83 Pope      481 43.73 Burns     530 27.89
Bess      111 37.00 Denly     651 31.00 Root      464 42.18 Lawrence  354 27.23
S. Curran 404 36.73 Leach     165 27.50 Buttler   497 38.23 Buttler   353 25.21
Vince     137 34.25 Buttler   502 25.10 Broad     177 35.40 Bairstow  391 24.44
Bairstow  609 30.45 S. Curran 206 20.60 Woakes    176 29.33 Stokes    304 21.71
Cook      516 28.67 Roy       187 18.70 Burns     254 28.22 Pope      368 21.65
Jennings  425 28.33 Bairstow  334 18.56 Wood      102 25.50 Sibley    356 19.78
Stokes    537 26.85 Jennings   62 15.50 Denly     176 25.14 Moeen Ali 132 18.86
Burns     155 25.83 Woakes    133 14.78 Bess      112 22.40 Hameeb    205 18.64
Stoneman  198 24.75 Sibley     71 14.20 S. Curran 118 19.67 Bess       96 16.00
Rashid    232 23.20 Foakes     55 13.75 Archer     42 10.50 Foakes     78 15.60
Malan     219 19.91 Moeen Ali  90 10.00 Anderson   36  9.00 S. Curran  87 14.50
Moeen Ali 268 19.14 Archer     97  8.08                     Overton    43 14.33
Wood       72 18.00 Broad      94  7.83                     Crawley   173 10.81
Pope       54 18.00 Anderson   12  3.00                     Wood       98  9.80
Leach      55  9.17 Overton    26  ----                     Robinson  125  9.62
Broad     143  8.41 Stone      19  ----                     Stone      36  9.00
Anderson   43  7.17 Rashid     13  ----                     Broad      53  7.57
T. Curran  62  ---- Wood        6  ----                     Leach      68  6.80
Overton    36  ---- Crawley     1  ----                     Anderson   41  4.10
Crane       6  ----                                         Archer     16  4.00
                                                            Bracey      8  2.67

Cinelli

[didds]

Bottom line

England have

* one batsman
* one all rounder
* two aging seamers
* a wicket keeper that Silverwood doesnt pick
* an allrounder that only seems to work in England
* two quicks that continually break or are long term broken.
* no spinner of test class.

Meanwhile Root assures us all that these are the best 18 red ball cricketers in the county setup. though I'd use the phrase "least worst" rather than "best".

Short of flying presumably the next tranche of by defintion even worse (ie not "top" 18 players ) in, I have no silver bullet, but maybe on the basis that it doesnt really matter now England do something such as suggested above ... Root 3, Stokes 4, play Broad+Anderson+Wood+ 1 from Robinson and Woakes and use Root as the spinner and pick whatever other 4 batsmen you want at 1,2,5,6, one of which would be Buttler or Bairstow with the gloves - neither are worth their place IMO but thats what the squad has available.

Short to medium term work on Root as the spin option, whilst working for longer term on leach, rashid, bess, whoever to improve them. Including funding them to play Grade/Sheffield Shield or equivalent if possible in Aus/some form of red ball in NZ/SA/wherever in the off season. Ditto some of the batsmen.

Long term? Who knows. I can't see the point of continuing with the one man supremo approach of silverwood, or even root as skipper - but accept its a case of "who else then" ? As for central contracts ... well they no longer seem to produce what I think they were aimed at?

Captaincy wise county cricket doesn't really produce anybody skipper wise for the test team given any test players are away from their counties for long periods ... and thus anybody that is a county skipper won't be near the test team.... Vince and Burns are the closest county skippers from 2021 to the test squad, but they've (almost?) been dumped. That then leaves Abell and Westly from Somerset and Essex the "winningest" skippers, neither of which set the CC world alight, let alone are knocking on the test team door seemingly.

didds

[Newroad]

Hi Didds.

Noting my allegiances mentioned earlier and with my knowledge of the county game largely second hand, here's what I'd do.

1. Hameed
2. Burns (optional Captain)
3. Root (Vice Captain, optional Captain)
4. Malan
5. Pope
6. Stokes (Captain)
7. Foulkes
8. Robinson (rotating with Woakes if he needs a rest)
9. Wood (rotating with Archer if fit again)
10. Leach
11. Anderson (rotating with Broad if needed)

My rationale

(A) I think you need to play a spinner (and give them time to bowl on surfaces conducive to their art) so if Leach is the best you have, back him. Tell him to get the ball above the eye-line of the batsman and don't worry if they go after him - don't make the Monty Panesar mistake (going lower and flatter if hit). Also, remember Nathan Lyon's start was hardly auspicious - moved to Adelaide as a groundsman of sorts, criticised by "Rowdy" early on then briefly dropped for Ashton Agar etc.
(B) You need your best keeper in test cricket - you have to hope they can bat a bit (which I understand Foulkes can).
(C) You need some variety in the seamers - hence the choices and the suggested rotations.
(D) Root should bat 3 - he effectively does anyway! A side option, if a middle order alternative is easier to find than an opening one, would be for Malan to open (indeed, that would actually be my preference, but not at the cost of playing Bairstow or Buttler - I think they are spoiled goods).
(E) I think Hameed is less technically flawed than Crawley, so I'd persist with him in preference.
(F) There is a case for going with Crawley over Burns, looking a longer way forward - a bit depends on whether you think Root can/should retain the captaincy and/or Stokes can handle it
(F) Pope - he hasn't lost all his potential

Remember, the darkest hour is just before the dawn. There are potential echoes of a Stokes 2022 with Border 1989 - the ECB's focus on White Ball cricket and the related coin is similar to Australia's in the 1980's (fallout from World Series Cricket, consequent Hughes led rebel tour to South Africa etc).

If Stokes could stabilise things and continue to blood the younger guys without them fearing for the next match - the next task would become figuring out the best way to replace the Anderson/Broad slot (ideally after the next English summer) - both to give the newcomers time and allow the old guys a home farewell.

Yes, it could break Stokes (whom I don't particularly like, but that's true of some Australian cricketers past and present too) but it might also make him.

Regards, Newroad

PS If you want to go really left-field, get a foreign selector on board - Trevor Hohns would be a great option if you could get him!

[dealtn]

(B) You need your best keeper in test cricket - you have to hope they can bat a bit (which I understand Foulkes can).

It's Ben Foakes.

[Newroad]

Thanks, Dealtn.

Let's hope he get's a game in any case, mis-spelling or not. Names can be a dangerous thing though, thinking of Peter Taylor circa 1987 ...

Regards, Newroad

[Leothebear]

Excellent bowling performance only for the batsman to fail miserably again. Each England innings in this series has seen a terminal batting collapse.
Can it really be all down to lack of preparation? I appreciate the Australian bowlers are good, but that good?

4-0 and each test an easy win for Australia. Least test runs scored by England since 1641AD.

[didds]

Hi Didds.

Noting my allegiances mentioned earlier and with my knowledge of the county game largely second hand, here's what I'd do.

1. Hameed
2. Burns (optional Captain)
3. Root (Vice Captain, optional Captain)
4. Malan
5. Pope
6. Stokes (Captain)
7. Foulkes
8. Robinson (rotating with Woakes if he needs a rest)
9. Wood (rotating with Archer if fit again)
10. Leach
11. Anderson (rotating with Broad if needed)

has that changed at all since the series has now ended and in the light of the last test?

For me, and with no other ideas generall admittedly, Crawley replaces on of the first two, neither of which are likely in the team going forward - short of there "nobody else" .

Malan probably just about stays for now.

Stokes frankly has questioln marks... his physical fitness is in doubt (eg side styrains etc) and as somebody said to me at the weekend... is he a good batsman, or a batsman that sometimes does great things? Im no longer sure he is a test #5. But its difficult putting him at eg #7 if he isnt ngoing to bowl on occassion.

Pope is shot. He aint staying.

No problem with Foakes - but Bairstow I suspect will be in the mix after his ton. And I suspect that may well end up with him with the gloves again - so bye bye Foakes again.

Robinson yes. Woakes only in Eng;lnd (shame - I like him. But he seems inconsequential overseas)

Wood deffo. Archer when fit. Though Ive question marks over his effectiveness at test level. Potentially both together.

Leach? He sems the first cab on the rank currently but... maybe a short term solution here is for the coaches to work with root and turn him into a sort of viv Richards spinner selection, while they sort Leach out.

Anderson... maybe its time for some succession planning. he is phenomonally capable so i dont wish to appear a regicider (is that a word? ) ... but is he really going to go to Pakistan, Jan 2023? (I cant find any future test series after then).

Broad. Definitely in. Quite why he didnt play in all three opening tests defeats me.

SELECTORS: Silverwood isnt up to it frankly. Arguably all 5 tests had the wrong selections, and this isnt just hindsight. How did Broad and Anderson not play in the first three etsts? Broad played just ONE! By the time he did get picked properly tyhe series was lost. The gabba smacked of "we dont ever win here so we'll give that one away and try and win at least of the remaining four and not lose". As opposed to playing two guys with > 1000 test wickets between them and at least trying.

</rant>

didds

[Newroad]

Hi Didds.

Yes, a bit. I would now prefer (based on limited further evidence)

1. Crawley
2. Malan (I mooted this option last time IIRC)
3. Root
4. Pope
5. Bairstow
6. Stokes (Captain)
7. Foulkes
8. Wood
9. Leach
10. Archer
11. Robinson

However, there are a lot of ifs and buts there. I don't mind if you want to keep the aged Anderson and/or Broad in the team for a bit longer (or until Archer is fit). Conversely, I don't mind if you want to persevere with Hameed or another young opener in lieu of Malan (who is 34). Bairstow and Robinson probably need to get fitter (though I probably shouldn't throw stones on that front ) to hold their places. Crawley needs to sort out his non-attacking technique/judgement. I'm still hoping you can rescue Pope. I don't think Bairstow is a test keeper, but if you wanted to work on him as that, you could do so and bring in someone else into the middle order. Etc etc.

For me, Burns, Buttler and Woakes are gone.

Nevertheless, there is unlikely to be a quick solution, whichever way your guys choose to go.

Regards, Newroad

[dealtn]

Hi Didds.

Yes, a bit. I would now prefer (based on limited further evidence)

1. Crawley
2. Malan (I mooted this option last time IIRC)
3. Root
4. Pope
5. Bairstow
6. Stokes (Captain)
7. Foulkes
8. Wood
9. Leach
10. Archer
11. Robinson

However, there are a lot of ifs and buts there. I don't mind if you want to keep the aged Anderson and/or Broad in the team for a bit longer (or until Archer is fit). Conversely, I don't mind if you want to persevere with Hameed or another young opener in lieu of Malan (who is 34). Bairstow and Robinson probably need to get fitter (though I probably shouldn't throw stones on that front ) to hold their places. Crawley needs to sort out his non-attacking technique/judgement. I'm still hoping you can rescue Pope. I don't think Bairstow is a test keeper, but if you wanted to work on him as that, you could do so and bring in someone else into the middle order. Etc etc.

For me, Burns, Buttler and Woakes are gone.

Nevertheless, there is unlikely to be a quick solution, whichever way your guys choose to go.

Regards, Newroad

Er, who is that at number 7 (again)?

[Newroad]

Sorry, Dealtn.

Brain fade

Foakes - will try and do better!

Regards, Newroad

[pje16]

Brain fade

Not nearly as bad as England's bat fade

[didds]

...
4. Pope
...
8. Wood
9. Leach
10. Archer
11. Robinson

Youve more faith in Pope than I have ... and thats a L-O-N-G tail. Wood at 8 is at least one too high. The other three FWIW could just mix and match 9-10-11 ... there's not much between them.

didds

[Lootman]

...
4. Pope
...
8. Wood
9. Leach
10. Archer
11. Robinson

Youve more faith in Pope than I have ... and thats a L-O-N-G tail. Wood at 8 is at least one too high. The other three FWIW could just mix and match 9-10-11 ... there's not much between them.

Well, Broad has batted at number 11 at times and he also has a Test 150 to his name.

Albeit in rather unusual circumstances . . .

[didds]

Well, Broad has batted at number 11 at times and he also has a Test 150 to his name.

.

Yes... and since he got hIt In the face bt Varun Aaron in 2014 he's mostly scared of his own shadow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jca_kv1oec