F1 this year...

[monabri]

Sounds like LH was robbed!

[Clariman]

Wouldn't it be so much better if all sports matches ended with barristers involved. Then all players and teams would get justice

It sounds like it was very exciting, but doesn't this appeal process and lawyers take some of the shine off the race?

(I didn't watch it)

C

[richlist]

Seems like the race director decided to change the FIA rules for the racing today. This has resulted in MV winning the championship. Mercedes aren't happy having the rules changed so brought in their legal people to represent their case. Whatever the outcome this will likely be appealed. What a mess. If the Red Bull win is upheld its a hollow victory.

[Mike4]

Seems like the race director decided to change the FIA rules for the racing today. This has resulted in MV winning the championship. Mercedes aren't happy having the rules changed so brought in their legal people to represent their case. Whatever the outcome this will likely be appealed. What a mess. If the Red Bull win is upheld its a hollow victory.

Given motor racing is carried out by privately owned teams on privately owned tracks under an arbitrary set of rules made up and agreed amongst themselves (AKA the FIA perhaps), what laws can possibly have been broken for lawyers to get involved with?

I guess it could be argued that some terms of some contracts have been breached, but then the remedy is surely compensation, not the reassignment of "World title" to different driver....

[pje16]

Seems like the race director decided to change the FIA rules for the racing today.

Agreed
but how can he do that
If the rules were rigid we wouldn't have all this nonsense going on
It will rumble on and at the end it will be disappointing for someone
Sport should be decided on the "field of play" not by an arbitor after the event

[terminal7]

Sounds like LH was robbed!

Indeed - that's why he has been forced to live in Monaco.

T7

[staffordian]

I think all this nonsense of appealing against the arbitrary rule change over the safety car should cease immediately. The stewards should simply give Max Verstappen a 5 second penalty for overtaking Hamilton before the finishing line as the safety car was withdrawn

[richlist]

I think all this nonsense of appealing against the arbitrary rule change over the safety car should cease immediately. The stewards should simply give Max Verstappen a 5 second penalty for overtaking Hamilton before the finishing line as the safety car was withdrawn

I'm not sure if those comments have been made 'tongue in cheek'. But, if Max gets a 5 sec penalty that makes Lewis the winner !

[pje16]

"The FIA Stewards have dismissed Mercedes' protests against the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix final classification"
https://twitter.com/F1/status/1470108100862619653

[richlist]

This isn't the end of it....Mercedes are likely to appeal the decision.......I hope they do. There are lots of unanswered questions about how this has been handled and how the decisions have been reached.

[staffordian]

I think all this nonsense of appealing against the arbitrary rule change over the safety car should cease immediately. The stewards should simply give Max Verstappen a 5 second penalty for overtaking Hamilton before the finishing line as the safety car was withdrawn

I'm not sure if those comments have been made 'tongue in cheek'. But, if Max gets a 5 sec penalty that makes Lewis the winner !

Precisely.

[Mike4]

I think all this nonsense of appealing against the arbitrary rule change over the safety car should cease immediately. The stewards should simply give Max Verstappen a 5 second penalty for overtaking Hamilton before the finishing line as the safety car was withdrawn

I'm not sure if those comments have been made 'tongue in cheek'. But, if Max gets a 5 sec penalty that makes Lewis the winner !

No flies on you, are there?!!

[pje16]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59 ... 1/59631659
extract

"At restarts after safety-car periods, lapped cars are normally allowed to pass the leaders and un-lap themselves so they do not interfere with the race.

Masi allowed the drivers between Hamilton and Verstappen to pass them, giving Verstappen a clear run at his rival. But did not do the same to the cars between Verstappen and third-placed Carlos Sainz's Ferrari.

Article 48.12 of the sporting regulations says: "If the clerk of the course considers it safe to do so, and the message 'lapped cars may now overtake' has been sent to all competitors via the official messaging system, any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the safety car."

At the same time, article 48.12 of the sporting regulations says that "once the last lapped car has passed the leader, the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap". In this case, the race was started at the end of the same lap.

Had both rules been applied in this way, Mercedes argued, Hamilton would have won the race"

[Clitheroekid]

Given motor racing is carried out by privately owned teams on privately owned tracks under an arbitrary set of rules made up and agreed amongst themselves (AKA the FIA perhaps), what laws can possibly have been broken for lawyers to get involved with?

I guess it could be argued that some terms of some contracts have been breached, but then the remedy is surely compensation, not the reassignment of "World title" to different driver....

There are two principal sources of laws governing motor sport. The first is the International Sporting Code, which governs all motor racing, and the second is the F1 Regulations, which apply only to F1.

The ISC runs to 76 pages of small print, and the F1 Regulations add another 89 pages!

Disputes are initially dealt with by the `Stewards of the Meeting', but if they can't deal with it there's an International Tribunal, which is, in effect, a private court. There's then a right of appeal to the final tribunal, the International Court of Appeal. Their decisions can be enforced in the same way as a court judgment, simply because all the participants have agreed that should be the case. It's a bit like the arbitration process in English law.

Wherever there's a lot of money involved you can guarantee there will be plenty of lawyers.

I'm not really an F1 fan, but I watched it because it was such a close contest. My own view is that irrespective of whether any rules were broken, I felt Hamilton should have won. He was 12 seconds ahead at the time the accident occurred, and I don't think a random event involving neither of them directly should have been allowed to work so much in favour of Verstappen.

[terminal7]

Clearly Hamilton 'deserved' to win the AD F1 GP. I would also argue that Max V 'deserved; to win the overall championship. However circumstances conspired against both these events taking place. The use of a safety car and/or a virtual safety car - usually for safety reasons - occasionally throws in an element of randomness into the outcome of a GP race.

My take is that the race director Masi - under huge time pressure and constant pressure from the teams - made a mistake. It's not like rugby where the ref may consult with the assistant ref off field who may sometimes spend 2 minutes looking at an incident from every conceivable angle. Masi had to make a decision as the laps were counting dow. He makes one decision then under duress from Red Bull makes another decision that has the inevitable result of handing the race to Red Bull given the tyre situation.

In conclusion - this result is tainted whatever the outcome of any further arguments put forward by m'lud friends. Mercedes should graciously announce that for the 'good' of the sport that they will be withdrawing from any further action. I appreciate that there are financial losses associated with this but the costs of continued legal processes will not be cheap. Masi should be relieved from his position - not the first time he has made an error since taking over from Charlie Whitehead.

Netflix cannot believe their luck with covering this season for their series Drive to Survive.

T7

[redsturgeon]

I wanted Lewis to win and clearly from the time he overtook Max at the start that was the most likely outcome but events conspired against him. I think the BBC headline has it right with "A deserved title won by a questionable call".

Max has made this F! season interesting. Again it was the rule change at the beginning of the season that handed Red Bull the advantage. Mercedes and Lewis should not really have been in contention by the last race but they fought back amazingly.

I have a funny feeling though that Mercedes will regain their dominance next year with the latest major rule changes that they have put more focus on than Red Bull.If that happens then I glad that Max took the title this year.

I also think that Lewis has had to up his game considerably this year due to Max being so quick and aggressive, it has made the whole thing much more interesting than usual, although of course only Mercedes and Red Bull had a look in most of the time.

John

[terminal7]

Mercedes should graciously announce that for the 'good' of the sport that they will be withdrawing from any further action.

- Wow Mercedes reading TLF and following my advice.

T7

[doolally]

Mercedes should graciously announce that for the 'good' of the sport that they will be withdrawing from any further action.

- Wow Mercedes reading TLF and following my advice.

T7

More specifically, they decided against an appeal following the governing body's promise to investigate and review the rules to prevent such an unsatisfactory situation occurring again.

doolally

[doug2500]

They were in a bit of a no win situation and giving up graciously was probably the best they could do. Winning the championship 2 months after the last race in a court somewhere would probably not have been enjoyable for them or anyone else, regardless of whether it was justified or not.

I'm not really a Hamilton fan but I think he's behaved really well over this and he's gone up in my estimation. It must have been incredibly hard to be gracious on sunday.

[Gerry557]

I'm more concerned about F1 next year.

I enjoyed the excitement of the racing combined with the strategy to see how things might pan out. Even when you think you have a handle on things you can still fall fowl of a last minute puncture or lack of fuel.

Nowhere was the thought that the race director would add his own version of excitement that changes the whole complex of the race.

I'm looking forward to the newer additions to the next races if they become a bit predictable. Turning on hose pipes to wet the track at tricky corners, tacks on the straights to induce punctures. Allowing a third team car to be put on the track to encounter a leader. They could even put rubber around the cars for more bumping.

You could save lots of money paying drivers as it won't matter how good they are as the race directors can decide who wins and by how.

It's such a sorry affair and there are no winners and even poor Max's win is now tainted.