The Lemon Fool

far from the usual boring parade.

I for one will be watching the final race on Sunday with interest.

Here though is a look at some of the overtaking moments between Max and Lewis which might underline why ultimately Lewis is the better driver.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swxpX6yZS_k

John

I see that the final race is being broadcast live on Channel 4 and on a non sports subscription Sky channel, for anyone interested.

Agreed
normally it just like speeded up traffic
Last week's one in Saudi was gripping
and Sunday may well be the best race for many a year
Well done Channel 4 nippimg in an making it available to the masses
Last time they did that (Emma Raducanu) there were no adverts as it was from Amazon prime
Sky can't help but advertise so grin and bear that

Sky don't advertise during the race, whether C4 will do remains to be seen.

Not during but there is plenty during the programme

My understanding is that C4 will be doing their own pre and post race programming with their own commentators and pundits, switching over to Sky for the race (only)

In recent years I have totally switched off from F1 - since it went on to pay to view. It's just boys and their fast toys - flying all over the planet to race gas-guzzling cars. It just seems so disconnected from real life and from protecting the climate.

Feel free to ignore this post given that it is about F1 fandom! I'm just exploring the other boards more than I normally do.

The race appears to be on at 1pm in UK on Sunday on Ch 4.

Verstappen on pole.

I don't pretend to understand F1 rules, but I'm completely befuddled.

Can someone explain what the hell just happened, in words that I might understand?

doolally

doolally wrote:I don't pretend to understand F1 rules, but I'm completely befuddled.

Can someone explain what the hell just happened, in words that I might understand?

doolally

No

I'm sure somebody will be along in a moment who watched it. But according to the BBC website's coverage there was a "contentious decision" by the marshals about not letting lapped cars overtake during the last lap, and somehow that left a safety car in Verstappen's way, and then somehow it wasn't, and he overtook.

The way the BBC described it, V probably deserved his win, because he had already sensibly taken the hit of a pitstop to change his tyres, whereas Hamilton was down to the last few millimetres and hoping not to blow out. That would suggest (to me) that Verstappen still had a lot in hand when he made his overtake in the final lap. But I'm sure Mercedes won't see it that way.

BJ

doolally wrote:I don't pretend to understand F1 rules, but I'm completely befuddled.

Can someone explain what the hell just happened, in words that I might understand?

doolally

I'll try.
Spoiler, for those who don't want to know the result yet.................
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Hamilton was about 10s ahead of Verstappen with around 6 laps remaining, and cruising to victory.
Another car crashed, and the safety car came out.
Verstappen pitted for new tyres, which one would expect would make him WAY behind Hamilton, and with a bunch of cars between them.
Then..... FLASH! BANG!..... suddenly we all flip into a parallel universe. The safety car goes in with 1 lap to go, Verstappen is immediately behind Hamilton and racing recommences. And Verstappen's fresh tyres enable him to take the lead.

Simple! NOT!

--kiloran

Hamilton was unlucky
when safety cars come out they nearly always take away the advantage the race leader had
and today that went against Lewis

Verstappen pitted after the crash so why didn't Hamilton do the same? Surely he would have retained his race position and been on fresh tires?

Disclaimer - this is the first F1 race I've watched in ages so the above might be a silly question!

BoE

Bubblesofearth wrote:Verstappen pitted after the crash so why didn't Hamilton do the same? Surely he would have retained his race position and been on fresh tires?

Disclaimer - this is the first F1 race I've watched in ages so the above might be a silly question!

BoE

Hamilton had just passed the pit entrance when the opportunity arose, so would have had to do another lap before pitting, which would have cost him his place.

Watis

Unfortunately I was watching it with half an eye as we had visitors, so I may have misunderstood things slightly, but I thought there was a "make it up as you go along" attitude by the stewards and/or race director, especially with respect to the safety car.

As I understand it, the race director has discretion as to whether to let lapped cars overtake the safety car so that by the restart, the cars are in race order.

I thought he had said this would not happen, leading to chuntering from Red Bull as it meant there were a couple of backmarkers between Hamilton and Verstappen which might compromise the latter's attempt to catch Hamilton.

Then the decision was changed allowing some lapped cars to overtake. This effectively sealed Hamilton's fate given Verstappen's new soft tyres.

Should Massi (race director) have done that? It was neither one thing nor the other. I assumed if the decision was made for lapped cars to pass the safety car, then all of them shihld have done so.

But that would have taken an extra lap, and the race would have finished behind the safety car, giving Hamilton the win and the Championship.

I can sort of understand the wish to let them race, but feel if that had been the plan, they should have stuck with the first decision. The two cars between Hamilton and Verstappen would have moved out of the way pretty sharpish under blue flags, Verstappen may well still have won, but at least (in my opinion) the race decisions would be seen to be fair and consistent.

A bit dodgy to put it mildly. Mercedes are appealing and I wouldn't be surprised to see this ending up in the Court of Arbitration of Sport.

When the safety car came out, Verstappen was in second place. Verstappen pitted for new tyres and rejoined in seventh place whilst Hamilton was still in first place. Because of the safety car, Hamilton had lost almost all of his lead.

The race director then let all of the cars between Hamilton and Verstappen overtake the safety car. Verstappen then moved behind Hamilton. Shortly afterwards the safety car was removed and the race restarted. There was only one lap left and with fresh tyres Verstappen was able to easily overtake Hamilton to win.

The rules require that all lapped cars must overtake the safety car before the race restarts. Many other cars had been lapped, so they should have also overtaken the safety car. This would have ended the race as the safety car could not have been withdrawn before the final lap.

Verstappen broke the rules by momentarily overtaking Hamilton before the safety car was removed (Sky have just shown the footage).

SalvorHardin wrote:A bit dodgy to put it mildly. Mercedes are appealing and I wouldn't be surprised to see this ending up in the Court of Arbitration of Sport.

...

Verstappen broke the rules by momentarily overtaking Hamilton before the safety car was removed (Sky have just shown the footage).

Yes, I'd forgotten that, but recall thinking at the time that Verstappen was pushing his luck.

FWIW - though perhaps I'm biased as I wanted to see the Brit beat Schumaker's seven titles - I was pleased with the stewards first lap turn one decision to not investigate.

Although the likes of Martin Brundle and Jenson Button disagreed, I saw it as another cack handed attempt by Verstappen to force his way through by fair means or foul, just like the several identical attempts highlighed by Sky F1 analysis and referenced in an earlier post here.

It's fine to claim Verstappen was ahead, but to get into a position of being ahead by entering the corner so fast that he understeered so much that he did not leave his rival any room to stay on the track is not the hallmark of fair racing IMHO.

The BBC say Hamilton was 12 seconds ahead ( a country mile) when the Safety Car came out. This allowed MV to close the gap. Is this correct? If so, how can he seriously claim the title?

monabri wrote:The BBC say Hamilton was 12 seconds ahead ( a country mile) when the Safety Car came out. This allowed MV to close the gap. Is this correct? If so, how can he seriously claim the title?

Whenever a safety car is sent out, the cars cannot overtake but they can close the distance between the car in front. The effect is to cause the entire field to bunch up in a line behind the safety car before the race restarts. Hence Hamilton loses almost all of his advantage over Verstappen if Verstappen doesn't pit.

Verstappen pits, comes out in 7th place behind the safety car. If the race restarts then, Verstappen can't win as he has to overtake five cars before getting behind Hamilton.

The officials letting all of the cars between Hamilton and Verstappen overtake the safety car took away the protection Hamilton had from having five cars between him and Verstappen