Germany V England...The Ladies

[Arborbridge]

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I've only scanned through some of the posts here, and many I cannot agree with, here's a short note about my own views, for what they are worth.

I was brought up watching football on and off. Never a huge fan and never followed any teams (Hartlepool United was never that great!), but watched all the major competitions and the FA cup final was a regular family together event. However, I fell out of the habit, or rather, was turned off the whole sport by the thuggish and unsporting behaviour both on and off the pitch of players and "fans". Something has gone badly wrong with the men's game down the years - I suspect money as the driving force may have something to do with this, though that's a different discussion.

In 2012, my son bought tickets for the GB Women's Team at the Wembley, which I thoroughly enjoyed. I was impressed by how the women played the game almost completely without rancour or vicious fouls. If someone fell over, they just got up and played on without complaining. If someone scored there was no mindless gurning at the crowd, but just a simple feeling of joy.

Since then, I've watched and followed Women's Football, mostly through the BBC Women's football show. OK, I'll never be a fan in the sense of going to matches regularly, but I do get enjoyment from it. Yesterday - or more accurately, the past couple of weeks, has been a real treat. It was a joy to see end to end football with immense skill and by and large, fair play, even though some refereeing decisions were more than a little wayward (in my view, ealier games were better reffed, this one was rather poor at times). And the icing on the cake is the way the women and fans celebrate with - as I mentioned above - pure unadulterated joy. No macho gurning or chest beating, just pure enjoyment. Looking at the post match pictures of families of supporters, of the young girl Tess and the video that went viral, and of the love between players on the pitch - to me that says it all.

However, let me end by pointing out there is a dark shadow on this sport - distant though detectable. It's noticeable how professional fouls have crept in, some quite blatant yet not always controlled by the officials. Look at the Spanish player whose sole job during a corner kick was to stand behind a player and wrap her arms round her in a bear hug so that player could not jump to head the ball. Quite blatant, illegal and totally unpunished. And last night, there were many late or sly tackles, and one of the worst offenders Oberdorf - was even rewarded by being giving a young player of the match award. I am hopeful that this level of fouling will not increase, for it will destroy the women's game for me, at any rate, my enjoyment of fair flowing football - physical, yes, but not routinely foul. A difficult line to tread. My fear is that as more money comes into the game, the incentive to win at all costs will become overwhelming.

Women's football has emerged from its 50 year nonsensical ban to take its place in the nation's heart, but I do worry that this could also be the beginning of its fall from grace. This loss of innocence would be tragic.

Arb.

PS can anyone who knows the rules better than I tell me: if a male player taking his shirt off after scoring a goal is committing a yellow card offence? Indeed, do any men do it, and have they been show a card?

[simoan]

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PS can anyone who knows the rules better than I tell me: if a male player taking his shirt off after scoring a goal is committing a yellow card offence? Indeed, do any men do it, and have they been show a card?

Yes, it's an automatic yellow card. Nunez of Liverpool did the same the day before. The laws of the game are the same for men and women don't forget! Just imagine if they weren't...

[Arborbridge]

OK I am not going to argue about it but it was a refreshing watch I thought. I occasionally watch the English premier league men's games and compared to many of these it was a fun game to watch. As I said earlier in this thread there was too much speculative lobbing of the ball forward for my liking, but that may just be the women's game.

Dod

Oddly enough, I didn't see much lobbing forward of the ball, so we will have to differ. Indeed, I was frustrated at times because the English team didn't pass forward enough and "have a go"*. So many times they had forward momentum and then lost it by passing all the way back. I felt a few more lob's into open space would have been rewarded.

Of course, the German defence was very good and it was all about possession. No point in passing forward without support and a better then 50% chance of keeping possession.

Yes, agree absolutely about begin refreshing and fun to watch. That for me is the key: fun to watch, fun to play.

Arb.

*the sparky and highly ball-skilled French team did this, but they lost!

[Arborbridge]

.
PS can anyone who knows the rules better than I tell me: if a male player taking his shirt off after scoring a goal is committing a yellow card offence? Indeed, do any men do it, and have they been show a card?

Yes, it's an automatic yellow card. Nunez of Liverpool did the same the day before. The laws of the game are the same for men and women don't forget! Just imagine if they weren't...

Thanks for the info and waylaying my (unmentioned but implied) fears about sexism. If as you say, it is automatic, that's fair enough, with no room for discretion. In this case, well worth the yellow card to live up to the spirit of joy which the women were blessed with.

"O spirit of Joy, rarely, rarely, comest thou" (Shelley, probably misquoted) - and when it does it's worth a yellow card!

[Dod101]

OK I am not going to argue about it but it was a refreshing watch I thought. I occasionally watch the English premier league men's games and compared to many of these it was a fun game to watch. As I said earlier in this thread there was too much speculative lobbing of the ball forward for my liking, but that may just be the women's game.

Dod

Oddly enough, I didn't see much lobbing forward of the ball, so we will have to differ. Indeed, I was frustrated at times because the English team didn't pass forward enough and "have a go"*. So many times they had forward momentum and then lost it by passing all the way back. I felt a few more lob's into open space would have been rewarded.

Of course, the German defence was very good and it was all about possession. No point in passing forward without support and a better then 50% chance of keeping possession.

Yes, agree absolutely about begin refreshing and fun to watch. That for me is the key: fun to watch, fun to play.

Arb.

*the sparky and highly ball-skilled French team did this, but they lost!

I also thought that there was too much passing the ball back. Maybe these lobbs forward were not intended to be speculative but if not they were not very accurate as passes.

Dod

[MrFoolish]

Thanks for the info and waylaying my (unmentioned but implied) fears about sexism. If as you say, it is automatic, that's fair enough, with no room for discretion. In this case, well worth the yellow card to live up to the spirit of joy which the women were blessed with.

"O spirit of Joy, rarely, rarely, comest thou" (Shelley, probably misquoted) - and when it does it's worth a yellow card!

I thought it was rather chavy and unprofessional to be honest.

[Arborbridge]

Thanks for the info and waylaying my (unmentioned but implied) fears about sexism. If as you say, it is automatic, that's fair enough, with no room for discretion. In this case, well worth the yellow card to live up to the spirit of joy which the women were blessed with.

"O spirit of Joy, rarely, rarely, comest thou" (Shelley, probably misquoted) - and when it does it's worth a yellow card!

I thought it was rather chavy and unprofessional to be honest.

That's a valid POV.
But I believe was acceptable as an instinctive emotional reaction to the occasion which could be viewed as endearing. Nice to see such innocent enjoyment which harms no one.
I notice that in several of the BBC bulletins later they edited it out, presumably as a matter of "taste" knowing how squeamish the audience can be. The British are very prudish about such things.

Arb.

[NotSure]

Thanks for the info and waylaying my (unmentioned but implied) fears about sexism. If as you say, it is automatic, that's fair enough, with no room for discretion. In this case, well worth the yellow card to live up to the spirit of joy which the women were blessed with.

"O spirit of Joy, rarely, rarely, comest thou" (Shelley, probably misquoted) - and when it does it's worth a yellow card!

I thought it was rather chavy and unprofessional to be honest.

Women's football (Not The Nine O'Clock news, Parental Advisory, and no reflection on today's game....)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PUtO-qpcZU&ab_channel=MichaelDroy

[MrFoolish]

That's a valid POV.
But I believe was acceptable as an instinctive emotional reaction to the occasion which could be viewed as endearing. Nice to see such innocent enjoyment which harms no one.
I notice that in several of the BBC bulletins later they edited it out, presumably as a matter of "taste" knowing how squeamish the audience can be. The British are very prudish about such things.

Arb.

It has got nothing to do with being prudish. There are rules about wearing the appropriate team kit, so I expect them to be adhered to.

I used to dislike it when teams used to swap shirts. It made a nonsense of the historical photographs.

Would you like Liz Truss to remove her top when she inevitably wins the leadership contest?

[Arborbridge]

That's a valid POV.
But I believe was acceptable as an instinctive emotional reaction to the occasion which could be viewed as endearing. Nice to see such innocent enjoyment which harms no one.
I notice that in several of the BBC bulletins later they edited it out, presumably as a matter of "taste" knowing how squeamish the audience can be. The British are very prudish about such things.

Arb.

It has got nothing to do with being prudish. There are rules about wearing the appropriate team kit, so I expect them to be adhered to.

I used to dislike it when teams used to swap shirts. It made a nonsense of the historical photographs.

Would you like Liz Truss to remove her top when she inevitably wins the leadership contest?

Well, she paid by having a yellow card - which is more than can be said for some of the fouls on the pitch.
There are kill joys everywhere, and those of us who enjoy life will always take the opposite POV. You and I just different.

As regards you comment about Truss: that's a classic straw man argument.

[didds]

How fit people injure themselves in a warmup always sounds a bit odd to me

I once twisted my ankle badly in a warmup prior to a rugby match when my foot went down a rabbit hole behind the in goal area!

[pje16]

How fit people injure themselves in a warmup always sounds a bit odd to me

I once twisted my ankle badly in a warmup prior to a rugby match when my foot went down a rabbit hole behind the in goal area!

I'd be surprised if Wembley or any professional club pitch had "rabbit holes"
but I bet that hurt though, so sorry to hear about that

[Dod101]

How fit people injure themselves in a warmup always sounds a bit odd to me

I once twisted my ankle badly in a warmup prior to a rugby match when my foot went down a rabbit hole behind the in goal area!

I'd be surprised if Wembley or any professional club pitch had "rabbit holes"
but I bet that hurt though, so sorry to hear about that

Quite amazing how much time we have all spent on discussing this game, considering that our biggest bank has just announced what I think is a significant turnaround in its fortunes with precious little comment - and this is supposed to be primarily an investment forum.

Dod

[didds]

How fit people injure themselves in a warmup always sounds a bit odd to me

I once twisted my ankle badly in a warmup prior to a rugby match when my foot went down a rabbit hole behind the in goal area!

I'd be surprised if Wembley or any professional club pitch had "rabbit holes"
but I bet that hurt though, so sorry to hear about that

Not quite Wembley, no!

[MrFoolish]

Well, she paid by having a yellow card - which is more than can be said for some of the fouls on the pitch.

Why concede a needless yellow card? One slip and they are down to 10 (wo)men. I'm glad this didn't happen, but it was a unnecessary risk.

[simoan]

How fit people injure themselves in a warmup always sounds a bit odd to me

I once twisted my ankle badly in a warmup prior to a rugby match when my foot went down a rabbit hole behind the in goal area!

I'd be surprised if Wembley or any professional club pitch had "rabbit holes"
but I bet that hurt though, so sorry to hear about that

Quite amazing how much time we have all spent on discussing this game, considering that our biggest bank has just announced what I think is a significant turnaround in its fortunes with precious little comment - and this is supposed to be primarily an investment forum.

Dod

This thread is not about banks though. Let’s hope the women’s game grows and develops from here a lot better than the HSBC share price has over the past 20 years! What a ridiculously bad long term investment it’s been.

[Dod101]

How fit people injure themselves in a warmup always sounds a bit odd to me

I once twisted my ankle badly in a warmup prior to a rugby match when my foot went down a rabbit hole behind the in goal area!

I'd be surprised if Wembley or any professional club pitch had "rabbit holes"
but I bet that hurt though, so sorry to hear about that

Quite amazing how much time we have all spent on discussing this game, considering that our biggest bank has just announced what I think is a significant turnaround in its fortunes with precious little comment - and this is supposed to be primarily an investment forum.

Dod

Primarily, but not soley Dod.

And I would expect any comments on HSBC posted on the football board to be removed to the correct place.

Although I hold HSBC and have done for as long as I've held shares, but I'm not all that bothered about it's results. It's doing well at the moment. Great. Next year it will probably do crap.

I've long since given up with the detailed analysis some take pleasure in talking about.

Sure, my comment should not be posted here, but I at least am very bothered about its results as I have held them for a very long time and know the Bank and its culture pretty well.

Dod

[Dod101]

How fit people injure themselves in a warmup always sounds a bit odd to me

I once twisted my ankle badly in a warmup prior to a rugby match when my foot went down a rabbit hole behind the in goal area!

I'd be surprised if Wembley or any professional club pitch had "rabbit holes"
but I bet that hurt though, so sorry to hear about that

Quite amazing how much time we have all spent on discussing this game, considering that our biggest bank has just announced what I think is a significant turnaround in its fortunes with precious little comment - and this is supposed to be primarily an investment forum.

Dod

This thread is not about banks though. Let’s hope the women’s game grows and develops from here a lot better than the HSBC share price has over the past 20 years! What a ridiculously bad long term investment it’s been.

Agreed and that is why today's announcement seems to me to be imprtant.

Dod

[Lootman]

Well, she paid by having a yellow card - which is more than can be said for some of the fouls on the pitch.

Why concede a needless yellow card? One slip and they are down to 10 (wo)men. I'm glad this didn't happen, but it was a unnecessary risk.

In this case it was near the end of the game and so the risk of a second yellow was minimal. In general this kind of celebration happens towards the end of the game, having scored (what is thought to be) the winner.

Of course if you already have one yellow then it is stupid. So I am not sure these celebrations are that impulsive. I suspect there is some deliberation that goes into them either beforehand or at the time.

[Arborbridge]

Well, she paid by having a yellow card - which is more than can be said for some of the fouls on the pitch.

Why concede a needless yellow card? One slip and they are down to 10 (wo)men. I'm glad this didn't happen, but it was a unnecessary risk.

One can get carried away. One might ask why any of the players concede yellow cards.

Anyhow, I think the judgement (if there was one) was that the match was effectively won with 10 minutes to go and in the unlikely event that she was sent off in the remaining time it would not have made any difference.
From her POV she thought it worth the risk, or maybe she just couldn't help herself. more likely. It was pure natural exhuberance, pure joy in the moment - how wonderful to see such an natural and unaffected reaction.

There are killjoys and there are those who love life. I'm firmly for the latter.

Arb.