The Lemon Fool

What do people think about his sacking ?
I think it was a big mistake to do this so soon before the World Cup,for which he had been planning ahead for a long time.
Certainly recent results were less than perfect (although the last quarter comeback against the All Blacks was very impressive and boded well for the future.)
If the new head coach changes things fundamentally, this will waste Eddie’s planning and may well unsettle the team.
If the new coach leaves things just as they are, what was the point in sacking Eddie ?
The actions of the RFU smack a little of desperation and the sort of short-termism which resulted in the summoning of Sam Burgess from League.
I hope Eddie’s contract prevents him from taking part in the coaching of any other national side before the World Cup, otherwise there is a danger he will pop up elsewhere armed with his knowledge of England and cause us a lot of problems.

Good riddance to bad ..........

Well, you asked.

I have stopped watching England rugby, anyone who plays with flair or imagination is dropped, endless stoppages, endless VAR reviews. Tedious. Good luck to his successor unless the mindset changes.

I've met Eddie, having a number of conversations with him, not all about Rugby (or Football which is my industry). Contrary perhaps to his public persona he was one of the most generous and interesting high profile sports person I have met.

I don’t know what his “public persona” meant to other people but I was always fascinated by his interviews and loved his acerbic replies to the media “that’s a stupid question,mate…..”.
I shall miss his presence on the TV.
I consider him the best coach England ever had.
He always said that his job was not to tell the players exactly how to play, but to train them to make the decisions well themselves.
Let’s hope he has trained them well enough to continue making good decisions under the new coach and that the latter will build on what he put in place rather than try to fundamentally change everything.
His turning of substitutes from a second best option into “finishers” who can turn a game around in the last quarter was both good for England and for the players involved and no doubt helped to improve the squad mentality.
International rugby is very competitive and the smallest margins can make a huge difference.
Most of the top countries these days could beat any of the others on a good day.

He always said that his job was not to tell the players exactly how to play, but to train them to make the decisions well themselves

Well he failed in that then - for example when England kicked the ball off the field to end the New Zealand match whilst in possession, having momentum and the scores tied.

or .... well there are lots and lots of other examples available.

todthedog wrote:I have stopped watching England rugby, anyone who plays with flair or imagination is dropped, endless stoppages, endless VAR reviews. Tedious. Good luck to his successor unless the mindset changes.

"endless stoppages, endless VAR reviews."

those are not down to England as a team though? that's "the game" and will happen to any other international tier1 nation match you watch ?

didds

Laughton wrote:

He always said that his job was not to tell the players exactly how to play, but to train them to make the decisions well themselves

Well he failed in that then - for example when England kicked the ball off the field to end the New Zealand match whilst in possession, having momentum and the scores tied.

... and the entire backrow and farrell tied up up in the post KO ruck, deep in their own half. Playing on from there endangered a lack of support and possible PK/turnover.

This covers it well
https://twitter.com/thedeadballarea/sta ... 9746988034

My 2p...

If that means the RFU have in effect written off RWC 2023 with a new coach just 9 months and a handful of matches out, with a view to RWC 2027, they could have just retained EJ until post RWC2023 when his contract was up anyway, and saved themselves 600K.

Meanwhile if the other various accusations surrounding EJ/coaching are true then the leaders of the RFU share the blame for that too...

didds

Most successful head coach England have had - though accept recent results have ebbed away. He has shown a very high degree of success at World Cups in the past. So a number of well lubricated toffs booed at the end of the South African game and the 'old farts' panicked. Jones is a one off and this has been a Brexit type decision.

T7

Good video link .
I had not seen this before.
It illustrates more clearly why Smith kicked dead.
It seems to be difficult for him to launch an attack from there.
The risk of a NZ counter attack was very real.
Jones, when quizzed about it post-match said it was the decision of the players at the time.
They are the experts, not us in our armchairs.
I have a feeling he would not have criticised Smith in the post-match briefing, even though he might have sensed it to be another nail in his own coffin.
Jones is a real professional.
He said just after he was appointed that he knew he would have to go when the results didn’t go his way.
He seemed quite sanguine about it.
He was sacked from an Australian club team (was it the Brumbies ?) when they had a bad run.
He will not be bitter.
I just hope the foundations he laid with the squad are not junked, but built on.
It is even more up to the players now.
I hope the internal “leaders” he encouraged (Itoje, Lawes,Farrell, Genge etc) will pick up where he left off.

Jones seems to have built a very good squad in depth for England.
For example, although France and Ireland have good squads, they do seem put off their stride more than perhaps they should be by the absence of a key player like Sexton or DuPont.
I would like to think this is not quite as significant with England.
This could be important in a World Cup which will be physically demanding and the risk of a key player being absent (either through injury or suspension etc) is always there.
We shall see…….

It is true we do not seem always to be successful against South Africa.
However they have a very powerful pack and ours seems not as powerful.
There is not much any coach could directly do about this.
He could not make our boys taller or more muscular/aggressive.
Perhaps what could have been done (I am not a pack expert and do not know) is to get the ball out very quickly on our put in, before the other side can get a real shove on.
This tactic seemed to have worked to an extent with Jones’s Japan’s significantly less powerful pack against South Africa in that famous victory in the World Cup…..

unperplex wrote:It is true we do not seem always to be successful against South Africa.
However they have a very powerful pack and ours seems not as powerful.
There is not much any coach could directly do about this.
He could not make our boys taller or more muscular/aggressive.
Perhaps what could have been done (I am not a pack expert and do not know) is to get the ball out very quickly on our put in, before the other side can get a real shove on.
This tactic seemed to have worked to an extent with Jones’s Japan’s significantly less powerful pack against South Africa in that famous victory in the World Cup…..

well there is a thought that EJ's pack selections are typically of late based around park speed and ball handling and not about grunt, so that is maybe a reason why England get bullied against the likes of SA. England got their bottoms handed to them on a plate at scrum time v SA but even with some quick channel 1 ball they then were getting exposed at the breakdown, And their kicking game was really poor. SA's in comparison was spot on. Lineout ditto.

In short, England didnt have go forward, and quick ball which is what a dual play-maker selection of Smith+Farrell need. It may have made more sense to Tuilangi to have played 12 as a big crash merchant, with a fast centre outside him - and Farrel and smith being in the mix together for the 10 slot and/or bench. But we are now talking a specific game rather than EJ generally

I'm no expert on rugby. What I do know is that as a spectacle watching England in Jones' reign has not been a pleasing experience. "Win ugly" seemed to be the mission statement.

A few years back I was finding the game more entertaining than football. That seemed to stop when Jones took charge.

Leo