Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to johnstevens77,Bhoddhisatva,scotia,Anonymous,Cornytiv34, for Donating to support the site

Hotel Survival?

place to discuss doing things round and about the UK or to ask advice about other locations
Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 18674
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 628 times
Been thanked: 6559 times

Re: Hotel Survival?

#522472

Postby Lootman » August 14th, 2022, 11:03 pm

AF62 wrote:
Lootman wrote:Given that my source was in charge of ordering beer for 'spoons

Either they weren’t who they said they were or they were pulling your leg.]

I have personally seen the barrels with the dates on them. What you read somewhere doesn't trump real-life evidence. Get out there to do real fact discovery rather then rely on google and third party sources for your information.

didds
Lemon Half
Posts: 5243
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 12:04 pm
Has thanked: 3242 times
Been thanked: 1018 times

Re: Hotel Survival?

#522516

Postby didds » August 15th, 2022, 8:20 am

Lootman wrote:[
The way it was explained to me by someone who worked at a 'spoons was that they buy beer from breweries that is close to its expiry date.?


that may have been the case back when it all started but - whilst not discounting that as an occassional possibility etc, these days its more of a supermarket milk model... long term contracts defining X billion hectolitres at Yp per pint.

didds
Lemon Half
Posts: 5243
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 12:04 pm
Has thanked: 3242 times
Been thanked: 1018 times

Re: Hotel Survival?

#522517

Postby didds » August 15th, 2022, 8:23 am

AF62 wrote:As the cost of the beer coming out of the brewery is the same wherever it is destined, then the destruction of tied/PubCo pubs is down to brewery the tied/PubCo pubs are tied to.


Yup.

But there appears to be a never ending stream of people prepared to throw their life savings away to run a tenanted pub, so the PubCos/breweries just take the next lemming off the production line for a couple of years and still make their contractual money.

didds

Alaric
Lemon Half
Posts: 6032
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 9:05 am
Has thanked: 20 times
Been thanked: 1398 times

Re: Hotel Survival?

#522537

Postby Alaric » August 15th, 2022, 9:43 am

Lootman wrote: So for example a 'spoons in Devon will feature Otter Ale and Doom Bar, whilst you will see neither in a 'spoons in Newcastle,


Isn't Doom Bar now one of the Wetherspoon national brands, so it pops up almost everywhere?

Sampling a beer you've never heard of can be one of the attractions of Wetherspoons.

Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 18674
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 628 times
Been thanked: 6559 times

Re: Hotel Survival?

#522540

Postby Lootman » August 15th, 2022, 9:49 am

Alaric wrote:
Lootman wrote: So for example a 'spoons in Devon will feature Otter Ale and Doom Bar, whilst you will see neither in a 'spoons in Newcastle,

Isn't Doom Bar now one of the Wetherspoon national brands, so it pops up almost everywhere?

Sampling a beer you've never heard of can be one of the attractions of Wetherspoons.

It might be but it is brewed by Sharp's in Cornwall and I see it mostly when I am in Devon. That said it is not my favourite from that part of the world, which would be Proper Job, which I mostly see in Young's pubs nationally, and in St. Austell pubs in the South-West.

AF62
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3499
Joined: November 27th, 2016, 8:45 am
Has thanked: 131 times
Been thanked: 1277 times

Re: Hotel Survival?

#522551

Postby AF62 » August 15th, 2022, 10:42 am

Lootman wrote:rather then rely on google and third party sources for your information.


“third party sources” hmm, spokesperson for Wetherspoons or ‘bloke in a pub’.

AF62
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3499
Joined: November 27th, 2016, 8:45 am
Has thanked: 131 times
Been thanked: 1277 times

Re: Hotel Survival?

#522928

Postby AF62 » August 16th, 2022, 6:30 pm

On the BBC news this evening there was a pub owner bemoaning that they couldn’t find enough staff to staff the restaurant part of the pub, so were only opening for food two nights a week.

Out of interest I took a look at their website - a simple three course meal for two people would cost over £160, and that is before paying for any drinks.

Can’t find staff to hire? Hmm… And then using that as the reason why a country pub is only doing food two days a week when the food is that sort of price - perhaps a lack of customers is the real reason.

pje16
Lemon Half
Posts: 6050
Joined: May 30th, 2021, 6:01 pm
Has thanked: 1843 times
Been thanked: 2066 times

Re: Hotel Survival?

#522938

Postby pje16 » August 16th, 2022, 7:00 pm

AF62 wrote:Out of interest I took a look at their website - a simple three course meal for two people would cost over £160, and that is before paying for any drinks.

Very good point
I want to enjoy a pub meal not chose when I get the bill :)

Hallucigenia
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2616
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 3:03 am
Has thanked: 166 times
Been thanked: 1718 times

Re: Hotel Survival?

#523103

Postby Hallucigenia » August 17th, 2022, 12:55 pm

AF62 wrote:On the BBC news this evening there was a pub owner bemoaning that they couldn’t find enough staff to staff the restaurant part of the pub, so were only opening for food two nights a week.

Out of interest I took a look at their website - a simple three course meal for two people would cost over £160, and that is before paying for any drinks.

Can’t find staff to hire? Hmm… And then using that as the reason why a country pub is only doing food two days a week when the food is that sort of price - perhaps a lack of customers is the real reason.


You have no idea. But maybe the owner of the business does? You don't know the other constraints - perhaps it's a small place with limited kitchen facilities that can only serve a relatively small number of covers, so they have to go the £££ low-volume route, perhaps there's a neighbouring pub doing the high-volume thing, you don't know.

But as someone who at least knows the sector well enough to avoid such crass analysis - it's a huge problem across the industry, and lots of places are reducing kitchen hours and/or reducing kitchen-"complication" (more pre-prepared and/or simpler dishes like pizzas) because of the labour shortage. That's more than anecdote - see eg this FT article :

https://www.ft.com/content/027ea2e9-d6c ... pe=blocked

The pool of labour from the EU has shrunk at the fastest rate, according to data collected by recruiter Caterer.com. At the latest count, there were around 172,000 EU citizens working in the hospitality sector, down around 41 per cent compared to a pre-pandemic total of nearly 293,000. The number of international workers from all continents fell over the past two years, with roughly 76,000 workers from foreign countries outside the EU also leaving the workforce. In total, around 197,000 foreign staff have left the sector since 2019, according to the research based on a survey of 250 senior hospitality hiring managers conducted in July.

... hospitality facing a 7.9 per cent vacancy rate, the highest of any industry, according to the ONS....Caterer.com director Kathy Dyball said the sector was in the midst of “a sustained and severe labour crisis”....

The industry body estimates that vacancies are costing businesses £21bn in unmet demand and lost revenue, and the Treasury around £5bn in lost tax....

Some 43 per cent of businesses surveyed said they had to cut back operations because of the staffing shortage. In the survey, 89 per cent said tough immigrations rules were dissuading them from hiring from overseas.


People keep trying to analyse the current situation in terms of a lack of demand, when the real problem is multiple shocks on the supply side, from energy prices to labour, for which the solutions are different.

AF62
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3499
Joined: November 27th, 2016, 8:45 am
Has thanked: 131 times
Been thanked: 1277 times

Re: Hotel Survival?

#523126

Postby AF62 » August 17th, 2022, 1:45 pm

Hallucigenia wrote:
AF62 wrote:On the BBC news this evening there was a pub owner bemoaning that they couldn’t find enough staff to staff the restaurant part of the pub, so were only opening for food two nights a week.

Out of interest I took a look at their website - a simple three course meal for two people would cost over £160, and that is before paying for any drinks.

Can’t find staff to hire? Hmm… And then using that as the reason why a country pub is only doing food two days a week when the food is that sort of price - perhaps a lack of customers is the real reason.


You have no idea. But maybe the owner of the business does? You don't know the other constraints - perhaps it's a small place with limited kitchen facilities that can only serve a relatively small number of covers, so they have to go the £££ low-volume route, perhaps there's a neighbouring pub doing the high-volume thing, you don't know.


No, the place was large and they said they had refurbished to appeal to the Instagram crowd.

But irrespective, they claimed they could only open two days a week *because* they couldn’t find any staff to hire.

Hallucigenia wrote:But as someone who at least knows the sector well enough to avoid such crass analysis - it's a huge problem across the industry, and lots of places are reducing kitchen hours and/or reducing kitchen-"complication" (more pre-prepared and/or simpler dishes like pizzas) because of the labour shortage. That's more than anecdote - see eg this FT article :


Crass analysis? Perhaps you could explain why you can’t find anyone to hire if you are charging £160 for a simple three course meal in a country pub, with drinks on top of that.

You cant hire anyone? Really? There isn’t enough profit margin in selling food at that price that you couldn’t pay double or treble what the other nearby pubs are paying their staff and still make a tidy profit.

How on earth do other pubs manage to find staff to hire when they are charging far far less for food. Is it because they actually have some customers willing to pay the prices being charged, and this pub can only find enough people to pay what they are asking a couple of days a week and it is nothing at all to do with hiring staff.


Return to “Around the UK”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests