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Orkney

place to discuss doing things round and about the UK or to ask advice about other locations
mc2fool
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Orkney

#513461

Postby mc2fool » July 11th, 2022, 2:12 pm

Thinking of doing a six day archaeology tour of Orkney next year, which actually covers structures from the neolithic to the 19th century, and timing it to tie up with the Orkney folk festival.

Am wondering if anyone's been to Orkney and has any recommendations of additional things to do that aren't related to prehistoric/historic structures and buildings, or local music, or has any suggestions or comments in general about the place. ;)

One factor is that I haven't been behind the steering wheel of a car for some 25 years, so I won't be driving.

(An obvious thing to do would be to dive some of the wrecks in Scapa Flow, although it's 20 years since I last dived and I donated all my kit to a local BSAC club some years ago. However, on an initial search it looks like all the wreck dives are done from live-aboard-for-a-week boats, whereas I was just hoping for couple of dives on a day trip, so if anyone has any leads on that I'd be grateful....)

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Re: Orkney

#513468

Postby monabri » July 11th, 2022, 2:22 pm

IDPickering lives there!

mc2fool
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Re: Orkney

#513478

Postby mc2fool » July 11th, 2022, 2:54 pm

monabri wrote:IDPickering lives there!

Is that a recommendation or a warning? :D

PhaseThree

Re: Orkney

#513482

Postby PhaseThree » July 11th, 2022, 2:58 pm

I did this a few years ago.

My one big recommendation would be to align your trip with the excavations on the Ness of Brodgar. It is only open for 6 weeks in the summer. I managed to miss it by one day !! (and isn't at the same time as the Folk festival unfortunately)
https://www.nessofbrodgar.co.uk/

We stayed in the High Park lodges outside of Kirkwall and would recommended them. They are a good walk out of town though (and up a big hill from memory)
https://www.highparkorkney.com/

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Re: Orkney

#548982

Postby DiamondEcho » November 22nd, 2022, 9:46 pm

mc2fool wrote:(An obvious thing to do would be to dive some of the wrecks in Scapa Flow, although it's 20 years since I last dived and I donated all my kit to a local BSAC club some years ago. However, on an initial search it looks like all the wreck dives are done from live-aboard-for-a-week boats, whereas I was just hoping for couple of dives on a day trip, so if anyone has any leads on that I'd be grateful....)

AFAIK the headline wrecks are considered various degrees of advanced/wreck diving. Plus given you're 20 years out of license I'd expect dive operators to consider you as equal to someone unqualified. I know it sucks, but that's the thing with diving, you either keep your hand in or it doesn't take long for all the accumulated certs etc to whither.

Could you deal with 'try diving' like a newbie diving for the first time? if so, there seem to be options. A simple Google brought up this for example: See section: 'Dipping a toe' here- https://www.orkney.com/things/leisure/diving

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Re: Orkney

#548996

Postby mc2fool » November 22nd, 2022, 11:00 pm

DiamondEcho wrote:
mc2fool wrote:(An obvious thing to do would be to dive some of the wrecks in Scapa Flow, although it's 20 years since I last dived and I donated all my kit to a local BSAC club some years ago. However, on an initial search it looks like all the wreck dives are done from live-aboard-for-a-week boats, whereas I was just hoping for couple of dives on a day trip, so if anyone has any leads on that I'd be grateful....)

AFAIK the headline wrecks are considered various degrees of advanced/wreck diving. Plus given you're 20 years out of license I'd expect dive operators to consider you as equal to someone unqualified. I know it sucks, but that's the thing with diving, you either keep your hand in or it doesn't take long for all the accumulated certs etc to whither.

Could you deal with 'try diving' like a newbie diving for the first time? if so, there seem to be options. A simple Google brought up this for example: See section: 'Dipping a toe' here- https://www.orkney.com/things/leisure/diving

I've already been in contact with Kraken, the only diving school on the island, and they're happy to accept my existing qualifications, per se -- I have both BSAC Sports and PADI Advanced and the qualifications don't expire (there is no "licence") -- but those and all my experience are for wet suit diving (the vast majority of my 200+ dives were in the tropics; the coldest I've ever dived in is the Red Sea!) and diving anywhere around the UK, and esp. in Orkney requires a dry suit, and that has quite different buoyancy characteristics and needs additional qualification on top.

So, I'm going to do the one day PADI Drysuit Diver course to add on that qualification, https://www.krakendiving.co.uk/padi-specialties, of which the practical sessions are at the Churchill barriers, yes, the same place they do the "try" dives, but having the qualification I'll then be able to go on boat-based dives to some of the deep wrecks, although at this point I'm not sure if I will or if just the blockships will satisfy me and I'll just tuck the qualification under my belt, so to speak, for if I ever want to dive in cold waters again. :o :D

(The academic part of the the drysuit qualification I can do online before I go...)

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Re: Orkney

#549700

Postby DiamondEcho » November 24th, 2022, 8:10 pm

Yes certainly dry-suits have radically different buoyancy characteristics, they also add another element to buoyancy altogether with lead and your BCD. Then you'll have to be considering the three elements working together plus matters such as the risk of going over-inclined/inverted and gas-filled-boots up. Possibly accelerating to the surface unable to dump air from your suit. That was one challenge I found when I did my dry-suit qual, prior to doing my Rescue and DM courses, then doing guiding work.

I hope your dry-suit course is good , not lead by someone who hasn't dived in years and that you wear a dive computer that you are entirely familiar with.

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Re: Orkney

#557292

Postby Sorcery » December 26th, 2022, 12:32 pm

Wreck diving in Scapa flow is vastly over-rated imho. The wrecks are all inside a lagoon (for want of a better word) formed by the surrounding islands. The lagoon is very silty and in summer gets a build up of plankton that doesn't get sufficiently flushed out by the tides. It makes for low visibility, deep diving (the shallowest wreck is from memory 30m). On the other hand, we persuaded the skipper to take us to a recent fishing boat wreck, outside the lagoon, a completely different experience with 25m visibilty. If I was to do it again, then I would arrange for diving outside the lagoon with a rib/boat and someone (the skipper) with local knowledge of the tides.
Colourful wildlife including curious seals would be my choice.

I am sure Skara Brae is on your list. It's an amazing place, much older than the pyramids and makes you realise why the the Adlantis legend has such resonance. A whole culture just turned up in the place for some unknown reason, quite possibly after fleeing rising sea levels after glacier melt.

People seem welcoming too, they seem pleased to have different company.

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Re: Orkney

#557298

Postby mc2fool » December 26th, 2022, 1:05 pm

Sorcery wrote:Wreck diving in Scapa flow is vastly over-rated imho. The wrecks are all inside a lagoon (for want of a better word) formed by the surrounding islands. The lagoon is very silty and in summer gets a build up of plankton that doesn't get sufficiently flushed out by the tides. It makes for low visibility, deep diving (the shallowest wreck is from memory 30m). On the other hand, we persuaded the skipper to take us to a recent fishing boat wreck, outside the lagoon, a completely different experience with 25m visibilty. If I was to do it again, then I would arrange for diving outside the lagoon with a rib/boat and someone (the skipper) with local knowledge of the tides.
Colourful wildlife including curious seals would be my choice.

I am sure Skara Brae is on your list. It's an amazing place, much older than the pyramids and makes you realise why the the Adlantis legend has such resonance. A whole culture just turned up in the place for some unknown reason, quite possibly after fleeing rising sea levels after glacier melt.

People seem welcoming too, they seem pleased to have different company.

Hi. Yeah, I've read about the low viz, and needing a torch too. I must say that doesn't particularly appeal, and also, while I've done a few 30m wetsuit dives before and was quite comfortable with that, that was after quite a few dives at shallower depths, building up, and I think I'd prefer to do the same with a drysuit rather than going straight into 25m+ after qualification. But I don't have the time to do that and, TBH, I don't particularly have an interest in naval wrecks, prefer wildlife, so just the dive round the Churchill barriers will probably do me. ;)

Re Skara Brae, I signed up for a tour with this lot, https://www.orkneyarchaeologytours.co.uk/, which hits all the major archaeological sites and historic buildings (except the Ness of Brodgar, which won't be open when I'm there).

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Re: Orkney

#557313

Postby Dod101 » December 26th, 2022, 5:36 pm

mc2fool wrote:I've already been in contact with Kraken, the only diving school on the island, and they're happy to accept my existing qualifications, per se -- I have both BSAC Sports and PADI Advanced and the qualifications don't expire (there is no "licence") -- but those and all my experience are for wet suit diving (the vast majority of my 200+ dives were in the tropics; the coldest I've ever dived in is the Red Sea!) and diving anywhere around the UK, and esp. in Orkney requires a dry suit, and that has quite different buoyancy characteristics and needs additional qualification on top.



Not that it really matters but Orkney is not an island. Known as The Orkneys it is a a whole series of islands. The wrecks at Scapa Flow are mostly behind the Churchill Barriers I think and as such do not have much tidal flow to keep the waters clear. I have been to the Orkneys but I cannot help you very much as it was a long time ago. How are you proposing to get there?

I have a nephew who lives on Papa Westray where, if you are interested, is the shortest scheduled flight in the world between Westray and Papa Westray. It takes all of two minutes.

There are archaeological remains everywhere including a lot they say which have not yet been discovered.

Dod

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Re: Orkney

#557322

Postby Lootman » December 26th, 2022, 6:36 pm

Dod101 wrote:I have a nephew who lives on Papa Westray where, if you are interested, is the shortest scheduled flight in the world between Westray and Papa Westray. It takes all of two minutes.

Is that the flight where the runway is the beach?

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Re: Orkney

#557328

Postby Tedx » December 26th, 2022, 7:21 pm

Lootman wrote:
Dod101 wrote:I have a nephew who lives on Papa Westray where, if you are interested, is the shortest scheduled flight in the world between Westray and Papa Westray. It takes all of two minutes.

Is that the flight where the runway is the beach?


That's Barra.

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Re: Orkney

#557332

Postby mc2fool » December 26th, 2022, 7:48 pm

Dod101 wrote:
mc2fool wrote:I've already been in contact with Kraken, the only diving school on the island, and they're happy to accept my existing qualifications, per se -- I have both BSAC Sports and PADI Advanced and the qualifications don't expire (there is no "licence") -- but those and all my experience are for wet suit diving (the vast majority of my 200+ dives were in the tropics; the coldest I've ever dived in is the Red Sea!) and diving anywhere around the UK, and esp. in Orkney requires a dry suit, and that has quite different buoyancy characteristics and needs additional qualification on top.

Not that it really matters but Orkney is not an island. Known as The Orkneys it is a a whole series of islands. The wrecks at Scapa Flow are mostly behind the Churchill Barriers I think and as such do not have much tidal flow to keep the waters clear. I have been to the Orkneys but I cannot help you very much as it was a long time ago. How are you proposing to get there?

I have a nephew who lives on Papa Westray where, if you are interested, is the shortest scheduled flight in the world between Westray and Papa Westray. It takes all of two minutes.

There are archaeological remains everywhere including a lot they say which have not yet been discovered.

Hi Dod. Yeah, I had looked at a map. :D The tour I'm taking includes visits to Rousay and Hoy but not sure I'll get up to Westray or Papa Westray in my spare days afterwards.

I'm doing the simple thing travel wise: BA to Aberdeen and Loganair (who else?!) to Kirkwall. I did toy with the idea of getting trains up to Thurso and then the ferry from there, but that trip is pretty long, requires either an overnight stay along the way or a sleeper, and the train journey London to Thurso return alone costs more than the return flights London to Kirkwall and back!

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Re: Orkney

#557333

Postby Lootman » December 26th, 2022, 7:58 pm

mc2fool wrote:I'm doing the simple thing travel wise: BA to Aberdeen and Loganair (who else?!) to Kirkwall. I did toy with the idea of getting trains up to Thurso and then the ferry from there, but that trip is pretty long, requires either an overnight stay along the way or a sleeper, and the train journey London to Thurso return alone costs more than the return flights London to Kirkwall and back!

Doesn't LoganAir fly non-stop from London City Airport to Kirkwall? Might be seasonal.

I took that sleeper train one time. I was "only" going as far as Inverness but it was ponderous. We had a sleeping cabin to ourselves but I woke up somewhere near Aviemore and it still seemed to take hours after that. The further north you go, the slower the trains are.

They do bring you a cup of tea in the morning though.

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Re: Orkney

#557335

Postby mc2fool » December 26th, 2022, 8:11 pm

Lootman wrote:Doesn't LoganAir fly non-stop from London City Airport to Kirkwall? Might be seasonal.

It's a code share with BA up to Edinburgh or Aberdeen and is significantly more expensive than going from Heathrow. The timings aren't so friendly either. Some years ago I'd have preferred LCY but the last time I went from there it was almost as crowded as LHR, and now with the Elizabeth line it's just as simple and not much longer than getting to LCY.

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Re: Orkney

#557337

Postby Dod101 » December 26th, 2022, 8:23 pm

Lootman wrote:
Dod101 wrote:I have a nephew who lives on Papa Westray where, if you are interested, is the shortest scheduled flight in the world between Westray and Papa Westray. It takes all of two minutes.

Is that the flight where the runway is the beach?


No That is Barra in the Hebrides

Dod

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Re: Orkney

#557339

Postby mc2fool » December 26th, 2022, 8:32 pm

mc2fool wrote:
Lootman wrote:Doesn't LoganAir fly non-stop from London City Airport to Kirkwall? Might be seasonal.

It's a code share with BA up to Edinburgh or Aberdeen and is significantly more expensive than going from Heathrow. The timings aren't so friendly either.

Actually, tell a lie, there are direct LoganAir flights on (only) Tuesdays and Fridays in May/June (one flight each way on those days). They must have appeared on their site since I booked my flights when the code share with BA was the only option from LCY. And they are 50% more expensive than the ones I booked.

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Re: Orkney

#557340

Postby Dod101 » December 26th, 2022, 8:37 pm

mc2fool wrote:
Dod101 wrote:
mc2fool wrote:I've already been in contact with Kraken, the only diving school on the island, and they're happy to accept my existing qualifications, per se -- I have both BSAC Sports and PADI Advanced and the qualifications don't expire (there is no "licence") -- but those and all my experience are for wet suit diving (the vast majority of my 200+ dives were in the tropics; the coldest I've ever dived in is the Red Sea!) and diving anywhere around the UK, and esp. in Orkney requires a dry suit, and that has quite different buoyancy characteristics and needs additional qualification on top.

Not that it really matters but Orkney is not an island. Known as The Orkneys it is a a whole series of islands. The wrecks at Scapa Flow are mostly behind the Churchill Barriers I think and as such do not have much tidal flow to keep the waters clear. I have been to the Orkneys but I cannot help you very much as it was a long time ago. How are you proposing to get there?

I have a nephew who lives on Papa Westray where, if you are interested, is the shortest scheduled flight in the world between Westray and Papa Westray. It takes all of two minutes.

There are archaeological remains everywhere including a lot they say which have not yet been discovered.

Hi Dod. Yeah, I had looked at a map. :D The tour I'm taking includes visits to Rousay and Hoy but not sure I'll get up to Westray or Papa Westray in my spare days afterwards.

I'm doing the simple thing travel wise: BA to Aberdeen and Loganair (who else?!) to Kirkwall. I did toy with the idea of getting trains up to Thurso and then the ferry from there, but that trip is pretty long, requires either an overnight stay along the way or a sleeper, and the train journey London to Thurso return alone costs more than the return flights London to Kirkwall and back!


I would agree with that. It is a long way from London to even Inverness so I would take to the air.BA to Aberdeen from London is easy and then on to Kirkwall. Mind you, you then miss the sea approach to the Orkneys which I always think is good for a visitor as it gives a good feeling of where you are; quite a long way north. I appreciate it because I drive up to Caithness most years and obviously see The Orkneys from there. My father’s family came from the Island of Stroma between the Orkneys and the Caithness mainland so I am quite familiar with the area.

Dod

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Re: Orkney

#557341

Postby mc2fool » December 26th, 2022, 8:52 pm

Dod101 wrote:I would agree with that. It is a long way from London to even Inverness so I would take to the air.BA to Aberdeen from London is easy and then on to Kirkwall. Mind you, you then miss the sea approach to the Orkneys which I always think is good for a visitor as it gives a good feeling of where you are; quite a long way north. I appreciate it because I drive up to Caithness most years and obviously see The Orkneys from there. My father’s family came from the Island of Stroma between the Orkneys and the Caithness mainland so I am quite familiar with the area.

As it happens one of the "maybes" I've got pencilled in is to take the ferry for a day trip to John O'Groats to take the wildlife cruise from there, https://www.jogferry.co.uk/Wildlife.aspx, which goes to either Stroma or the Stacks of Duncansby (captain's choice on the day)....

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Re: Orkney

#557348

Postby Dod101 » December 26th, 2022, 10:42 pm

mc2fool wrote:
Dod101 wrote:I would agree with that. It is a long way from London to even Inverness so I would take to the air.BA to Aberdeen from London is easy and then on to Kirkwall. Mind you, you then miss the sea approach to the Orkneys which I always think is good for a visitor as it gives a good feeling of where you are; quite a long way north. I appreciate it because I drive up to Caithness most years and obviously see The Orkneys from there. My father’s family came from the Island of Stroma between the Orkneys and the Caithness mainland so I am quite familiar with the area.

As it happens one of the "maybes" I've got pencilled in is to take the ferry for a day trip to John O'Groats to take the wildlife cruise from there, https://www.jogferry.co.uk/Wildlife.aspx, which goes to either Stroma or the Stacks of Duncansby (captain's choice on the day)....


I might even know the ‘captain’ of the day or certainly my cousin will! Lots of puffins on the Stacks of Duncansby, and as I know only too well lots of aggressive seabirds on Stroma. The latter from the point of view of human endeavour is probably more interesting. Quite amazing how the croft houses have survived on Stroma, probably because of the very substantial roofing. An interesting crossing in the first place, from the Orkneys to John O’ Groats, or is it to Gills in the catamaran?

Anyway, I hope you enjoy the trip. It is a bit different.

Dod


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