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Where would you retire?

Holiday Ideas & Foreign Travel
neversay
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Where would you retire?

#310964

Postby neversay » May 22nd, 2020, 11:51 am

This lockdown has had my wife and I talking about how we want to spend our retirement. The idea of spending more time in Provence keeps coming up as the place we miss the most when we are not allowed to travel.

So, my question to you all: excluding the UK, where would be your first choice as a place to retire?

Snorvey
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Re: Where would you retire?

#311013

Postby Snorvey » May 22nd, 2020, 1:22 pm

Portugal & Cyprus would be 2 of the cheapest sunny EU countries to move to. Although God knows what's going to happen in a post Brexit world. Certain EU countries will not want to lose the UK buck.

Further afield for cost/sunshine....Panama? Belize?

You never know, we may have a freedom of movement type arrangement with the US in the future.

Sorry, to answer your question, I don't know. I've always liked the Canaries for a holiday and spent a lovely couple of weeks in northern Tenerife. I think I would happily live in the less touristy locations there. I think.

dealtn
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Re: Where would you retire?

#311023

Postby dealtn » May 22nd, 2020, 1:44 pm

It would have to be a big reason not to retire in the UK. At a stretch, in the spirit of the question, and if allowed, then the Channel Islands.

neversay
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Re: Where would you retire?

#311032

Postby neversay » May 22nd, 2020, 1:59 pm

Thanks @snorvey and @dealtn.

As I'm sure you know, there's a decision-making approach where you decide to flip a coin and then see how you feel about the result (aka cognitive dissonance). My wife is America and I'm a Brit so we split our time in the UK and US. The travel restriction feels like the equivalent of flipping that coin on where we would like to spend more time. Provence bubbled to the surface of places we would like to be.

I should really have asked "Where would you spend your time?" as I don't want to burst the dream with the administrative pros/cons and complexities of retirement. :)

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Re: Where would you retire?

#311045

Postby tikunetih » May 22nd, 2020, 2:13 pm

neversay wrote:So, my question to you all: excluding the UK, where would be your first choice as a place to retire?


I'll immediately sidestep the question by pointing out that visiting somewhere for a shorter period is frequently nothing much like living somewhere!

There are all sorts of reasons for this, but a very significant one is that when in visitor (or holiday) mode, you yourself would normally be in a different mindset to that of everyday life: you've usually left all the hassle and 5h!t in your life behind for a while and are instead at leisure, whatever that comprises for you, with the sole focus being enjoyment.

You cannot really sustain that mindset all of the time - normal life itself is cyclical with things needing to be done that cannot forever be put off - so even if you live in your favourite place in the world it will still involve you doing the mundane administrative stuff and hence will likely not be much or anything like the experience of being an outsider visiting somewhere nice for a short period. This most obviously applies if you're still working and therefore must work in the new location, severely limiting your time available to do the nice things you associate with that nice place, but's still relevant if retired.

I'm certainly not arguing against living somewhere nice, just a reminder that residing and temporarily visiting (or holidaying) can be very different experiences, so think carefully!

tikunetih
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Re: Where would you retire?

#311051

Postby tikunetih » May 22nd, 2020, 2:22 pm

neversay wrote:I should really have asked "Where would you spend your time?" as I don't want to burst the dream with the administrative pros/cons and complexities of retirement. :)


Sorry, only saw that part after I'd posted. :lol:

My views above are informed by my experience of spending quite a lot of time in a place(/places) popular with holidaying tourists, and thus trying to sidestep and avoid them when trying to go about the everyday stuff that life involves. Winter's great for its respite, but it seems the tourist season now never ends merely slackens off a bit!

neversay
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Re: Where would you retire?

#311056

Postby neversay » May 22nd, 2020, 2:26 pm

tikunetih wrote:I'm certainly not arguing against living somewhere nice, just a reminder that residing and temporarily visiting (or holidaying) can be very different experiences, so think carefully!


I totally agree @tikunetih, our messages crossed in the ether. Our conversation was about getting a small bolt-hole somewhere warm, but it was a pipe dream. I just wanted to use the 'flipping a coin' test to see where people here would spend their time if they had a choice. :)

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Re: Where would you retire?

#311059

Postby Lootman » May 22nd, 2020, 2:27 pm

neversay wrote:As I'm sure you know, there's a decision-making approach where you decide to flip a coin and then see how you feel about the result (aka cognitive dissonance). My wife is American and I'm a Brit so we split our time in the UK and US. The travel restriction feels like the equivalent of flipping that coin on where we would like to spend more time. Provence bubbled to the surface of places we would like to be.

I should really have asked "Where would you spend your time?" as I don't want to burst the dream with the administrative pros/cons and complexities of retirement. :)

I am in a very similar situation as yourself. My wife is American. We have three different passports between us. She is still working in the UK so we cannot relocate yet. But we spend a fair amount of time in the US, maybe 3 or 4 times a year. Until 2020 of course, and the current situation is more stressful to us then to people whose family are all in one place.

To answer your question we have considered several of the places already mentioned, including Portugal, Belize and Panama. But most likely it will be somewhere in the US with good weather and lower taxes e.g. Florida, Texas, Arizona or Nevada.

neversay
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Re: Where would you retire?

#311069

Postby neversay » May 22nd, 2020, 2:50 pm

Lootman wrote:
neversay wrote:As I'm sure you know, there's a decision-making approach where you decide to flip a coin and then see how you feel about the result (aka cognitive dissonance). My wife is American and I'm a Brit so we split our time in the UK and US. The travel restriction feels like the equivalent of flipping that coin on where we would like to spend more time. Provence bubbled to the surface of places we would like to be.

I should really have asked "Where would you spend your time?" as I don't want to burst the dream with the administrative pros/cons and complexities of retirement. :)

I am in a very similar situation as yourself. My wife is American. We have three different passports between us. She is still working in the UK so we cannot relocate yet. But we spend a fair amount of time in the US, maybe 3 or 4 times a year. Until 2020 of course, and the current situation is more stressful to us then to people whose family are all in one place.

To answer your question we have considered several of the places already mentioned, including Portugal, Belize and Panama. But most likely it will be somewhere in the US with good weather and lower taxes e.g. Florida, Texas, Arizona or Nevada.


That's interesting @Lootman. We were fortunate to visit family in February just before the lockdown. We are trying to avoid overthinking the present inability to see them again as it is stressful as you say; We will miss my wife's brother's wedding and her father went into remission from stage 4 cancer last year. Even when it unlocks we have idea what will happen to flight prices (hence another post I made about preserving Amex points for Airmiles) or when our kids can see the rest of the family again.

I'm not sure why the US didn't bubble to the top of our list. We have family in wonderful locations including California, Florida, Carolinas, New York, New Hampshire, Vermont. Perhaps it all feels too 'home from home'?

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Re: Where would you retire?

#311080

Postby tikunetih » May 22nd, 2020, 3:06 pm

dealtn wrote:It would have to be a big reason not to retire in the UK. At a stretch, in the spirit of the question, and if allowed, then the Channel Islands.


My "risk-manager" head wouldn't permit me to retire later in life to a nation that either my partner or I didn't originally hail from and have a good understanding of (+family connections with). Good luck to people who do, though, but little surprise to me that plenty of them eventually return home.

I would definitely consider that type of country swap earlier in life where there's longer to adjust via participation in normal life, but again it'd make much more sense if it was to a country that my partner had roots in so that there was a fundamental reason to go there beyond it simply appearing to seem like a nice place...

Stereotypically, France is where I'm fondest of - geographically the bottom half/third or so - but I can well imagine that permanently living there might send me a bit crazy. So, too much of a gamble for me, and I'd instead form a plan where I could remain resident in the UK while spending plenty of time in France doing the things I like to do there.

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Re: Where would you retire?

#311114

Postby Charlottesquare » May 22nd, 2020, 4:28 pm

Well we were considering a partial retirement to our house in Sweden, I say partial as we would have likely still kept a flat in Edinburgh and only spent part of the year over there. Whilst it is still a possible if we just do a complete permanent move there (subject to getting leave to reside there) the complication/cost for us of longer term health insurance coverage post Brexit and next January have rather taken the shine out of the plan.

We bought the property fifteen years ago as a holiday house and have visited it 2-4 times a year since then, usually two weeks at Easter, three weeks summer, possibly a week in October and a week at Christmas.

Whilst I will see how travel develops in Europe before making any definite plans, I think there is a pretty strong chance we will sell it and buy something rural up here in Scotland, instead.

The other impact is Covid and the damage to our investments and possible retirement income, whilst there has been a little recovery we are still 21% down on peak (July 2019) re my main pension/some other investments(thank goodness other half has final salary scheme) and I suspect I am now working until 66 rather than 63/64 to partly repair the damage. The other consideration is then the cost of running two households in retirement , I think that may need a rethink and therefore staying here but leaving the city now has a higher probability.

However never say never.

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Re: Where would you retire?

#311122

Postby Snorvey » May 22nd, 2020, 4:47 pm

My "risk-manager" head wouldn't permit me to retire later in life to a nation that either my partner or I didn't originally hail from and have a good understanding of (+family connections with). Good luck to people who do, though, but little surprise to me that plenty of them eventually return home.

Yes, this.

Whilst we were European Citizens, you could retire in the knowledge that you had the warm blanket of EU legislation wrapped around you.

Now though.....

* And to be honest, as I've said before, I like the idea of the warm, but when I get there I can't stand it for too long. It pains me to say this, but England probably has the ideal retirement climate for me......

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Re: Where would you retire?

#311155

Postby bungeejumper » May 22nd, 2020, 5:58 pm

All right, you can all throw rocks at me now. After long reflection, I can't think of anywhere I'd rather be than right here, in a Cotswold village 15 minutes east of Bath. Peace and tranquility when you want it, or a buzzy (if sometimes crowded) tourist pleasure zone just a bus ride away if rural life should ever get too boring. Good neighbours, nice community, true friends, no mobile signal, and strictly no takeaway deliveries. I'll need to be in a box before they take me away from this place. It'd cost you a few quid to buy here, but probably less than you'd expect unless you were fool enough to go for inner-city Bath or Bristol.

Like tikunetih, we're profoundly fond of central southern France - not so much the Med, but rather the solidly beautiful countryside fifty miles inland, where every day is like a good English summer (except when it's hailing golfballs, of course, or flooding and freezing, sometimes both at once.) But we've seen so many retired friends returning from their expat idylls because the call of the old country is so strong. And that's where their grandchildren are, of course.

I could probably enjoy Berlin again, although my wife probably wouldn't take to the teutonic manner (Berliners are very outspoken.... :? ). York, possibly, Dublin maybe, Scotland's too cold. (Sorry lads.) I never got to visit the United States, and I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable or even welcome there nowadays, and that's a pity because it's a great nation that's currently showing a distinctly xenophobic underbelly. Think I'll pass on that one. Pity.

Cyprus, Crete, Malta, Costa Bomba? Nice thought, lovely weather, cheap living, but I don't think I'd stand it for very long - too damn quiet!

Other ideas? Well, I did once have a friend who bought himself a yacht after he learned that mooring fees off Nice were half of what he'd be paying in Southampton Water. With a good broadband link (via radio, I presume) and all that sun and all that beauty, what could go wrong? Alas, he found out all too soon that there were disadvantages to being never more than 30 feet away from his wife. :|

BJ

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Re: Where would you retire?

#311161

Postby Lootman » May 22nd, 2020, 6:15 pm

neversay wrote:I'm not sure why the US didn't bubble to the top of our list. We have family in wonderful locations including California, Florida, Carolinas, New York, New Hampshire, Vermont. Perhaps it all feels too 'home from home'?

My thoughts on those:

Vermont and New Hampshire are right next to each other, a similar size, and served by Boston Logan airport. However they are also quite different. New Hampshire is independent and almost libertarian. Its motto is "Live Free or Die". Whereas Vermont is very regulated and liberal, as you might expect from the state that gave us Bernie Sanders. You notice it immediately when you cross the state line - NH has ugly billboards and VT doesn't. So depending on your political outlook, one might suit much better than the other.

California has everything of course. But very high taxes and housing costs, anywhere liveable anyway.

Florida is not everyone's cup of tea. Totally flat and subject to hurricanes, flooding and a variety of unpleasant insects. I like Sarasota on the gulf side, a nice college town with white sand beaches. Tampa is your airport there.

The Carolinas are interesting. NC is business-like and more mid-Atlantic, with large cities and good universities. Whereas SC is the real south. Never could get to like grits however. Charleston has its merits if you don't mind humidity.

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Re: Where would you retire?

#311168

Postby Mike88 » May 22nd, 2020, 6:28 pm

I don't know how much time the original poster has spent in Provence but it's absolutely freezing in the winter. The cold weather does not put off everyone but it does many. My theoretical choice would be either Florida with cheap property, good weather but high health insurance costs, the Canaries or Cyprus but in the end I opted for South Devon to be near my grandchildren.

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Re: Where would you retire?

#311757

Postby AF62 » May 24th, 2020, 3:43 pm

Snorvey wrote:Although God knows what's going to happen in a post Brexit world. Certain EU countries will not want to lose the UK buck.


It is going to get very interesting next year with the 90 day rule. That is certainly going to put a kink in some peoples plans.

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Re: Where would you retire?

#311763

Postby feder1 » May 24th, 2020, 4:18 pm

What is the 90 day rule please?

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Re: Where would you retire?

#311764

Postby JohnB » May 24th, 2020, 4:18 pm

If your choice is influenced by the weather, be wary of climate zones moving. The Mediterranean coast is going to become like North Africa, and continental interiors will become more extreme. You can combat that with technology, but I'd not want to be trapped indoors, especially by humidity in much of the US. Retirement depends a lot on support networks, whether they be healthcare, family or political stability. For many countries the outlook for support networks looks poor, including the UK, but at least being near family gives you more confidence. So a simple answer is in a suburb of the city your most reliable offspring works in, on the bus route from the city centre to the hospital.

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Re: Where would you retire?

#311771

Postby Lootman » May 24th, 2020, 4:33 pm

JohnB wrote:If your choice is influenced by the weather, be wary of climate zones moving. The Mediterranean coast is going to become like North Africa, and continental interiors will become more extreme. You can combat that with technology, but I'd not want to be trapped indoors, especially by humidity in much of the US.

There is high humidity in the summer in the American MidWest, NorthEast, MidAtlantic and Southern states.

But once you get to the mountain and western states, humidity is quite low. So of the hot states, Florida has very high humidity but Arizona has very low humidity. The great thing about America is its geographic diversity. If you know what climate patterns you like, you can find a place with that weather.

Some British people might prefer the Pacific Northwest with its damp, temperate conditions similar to home. Washington state also has no state income tax. Although personally I'd like something you can't get in the UK, and barely can get in Europe - desert.

As for climate zones changing, that is a very gradual thing. I'm not sure that the English Riviera will become tropical in even your grandchildrens' lifetime. Ironically it may get colder if we lose the gulf stream.

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Re: Where would you retire?

#311776

Postby dspp » May 24th, 2020, 4:40 pm

Lootman wrote:
As for climate zones changing, that is a very gradual thing.


Until its not gradual at all,

Image

- dspp


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