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Vaccination Passport Qantas

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feder1
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Vaccination Passport Qantas

#359669

Postby feder1 » November 24th, 2020, 4:17 pm

DAK whether the proposed vaccinations can be given to anyone regardless of whether they have had or incubating or never had the virus please?

(For air travel longer planning times may be needed.)

Moderator Message:
Minor edit to title for clarity (chas49)

chas49
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Re: Vaccination Passport Qantas

#359679

Postby chas49 » November 24th, 2020, 4:37 pm

There will be some people for whom vaccination is not advised on medical grounds (immunosuppressed, certain allergies etc) - but as far as I know, other than that, anyone can (and should) get the vaccine when it's available - even if they've had the virus at some point. I suspect you won't be able to get vaccinated if you actually have COVID19 at the time.

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Re: Vaccination Passport Qantas

#359699

Postby Mike4 » November 24th, 2020, 5:45 pm

Agree with Chas49 above, you won't be thanked for turning up to get vaccinated if you actually have COVID-19 at the time.

But your question takes us straight into wondering which vaccine you are expecting to get. The Oxford vaccine does not generate immunity until six weeks after the second dose according to R4 this morning. Given the other two also require two doses a month apart, and I've heard it said immunity does not develop in those either until after the second dose, you might need to do some medium to long term planning for your air trip given resistance takes 2 to 3 months to develop.

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Re: Vaccination Passport Qantas

#359717

Postby Lootman » November 24th, 2020, 7:06 pm

Mike4 wrote:But your question takes us straight into wondering which vaccine you are expecting to get. The Oxford vaccine does not generate immunity until six weeks after the second dose according to R4 this morning. Given the other two also require two doses a month apart, and I've heard it said immunity does not develop in those either until after the second dose, you might need to do some medium to long term planning for your air trip given resistance takes 2 to 3 months to develop.

It may be worse than that. What if not every country accepts every vaccine as valid?

I mentioned this elsewhere in respect of the AZN vaccine in the event that the US does not approve it. Would that mean a AZN vaccine "passport" would do you no good if you visit the US or try to board a US airline? And so you would need another one, which may have to be done privately if the NHS only uses AZN.

Same could happen elsewhere.

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Re: Vaccination Passport Qantas

#359725

Postby chas49 » November 24th, 2020, 7:32 pm

Mike4 wrote: The Oxford vaccine does not generate immunity until six weeks after the second dose according to R4 this morning. Given the other two also require two doses a month apart, and I've heard it said immunity does not develop in those either until after the second dose, you might need to do some medium to long term planning for your air trip given resistance takes 2 to 3 months to develop.


I thought they implied immunity appeared quite soon after the second dose - which suggested that there was some immunity after the first one. Who knows? I think there's still a lot of detail to come out from the research and everyone is jumping the gun a bit and expecting full knowledge straight away....

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Re: Vaccination Passport Qantas

#360890

Postby john10001 » November 28th, 2020, 3:02 pm

This is a very interesting topic to me as I have just recently written and posted a complaint letter to Qantas about this very thing. It cost me around £2.50 to send the letter via Royal Mail.

If you want to have a vaccine or not I think it has to be the individual's choice and they should not be discriminated against or denied the right to travel if they choose not to.

It makes no sense to me that it would only be mandatory for international travel but not domestic especially given the size and/or population of some countries which to me seems very disproportionate, contradictory, and illogical.

I don't understand why the Qantas CEO would be proposing something so Orwellian for something no worse than seasonal flu and with a higher survival rate. I think the comments by the CEO of Qantas is very much an overreaction and a very disturbing one at that.

I won't be flying with Qantas or any airline that requires mandatory vaccinations which is a violation of individual freedom and basic human rights.

Before anyone jumps the gun and calls me an anti-vaxxer which is common practice and something I am used to, I am not and have had vaccines in the past. I am someone who is pro-choice on healthcare matters relating to your own life and health.

I think it is very important to push back against Qantas on this because I care about freedom and don't want to live in a future world similar to the movie Total Recall or George Orwell’s book 1984 but apparently, the CEO of Qantas does not.

This is a world where you are scanned, microchipped, x-rayed, radiated, injected, metal detected, prodded, poked, harassed, treated like cattle, fondled, inappropriately touched, shaken down, strip-searched, humiliated, and violated by the State, their goons, airport security, and the airlines and treated like common criminals and pariahs. I am sorry but enough is enough!

For me, it is very important to complain about this to Qantas because if this is something they implement and people just accept it like sheep then all the other airlines will simply copy them.

If however there is a lot of pushback and complaints from people saying that they will no longer fly with them then it may actually get them to change their minds and for common sense to prevail.

I don't know about everyone else but to me, this is very much an overreaction by the Qantas CEO Alan Joyce. I am not surprised by it though because the media has been fearmongering about Coronavirus all year and especially right now about second and third waves when most people have likely already had it without realising and are probably immune. 80 or 90% of the population is probably immune by now. I know that immunity in New York was 70% and this was a good five or six months ago in the summer. It will likely have been similar in London and the rest of the UK catching up shortly later.

I think it is fair to say most people want to see an end to lockdowns and a return to normality before further and unnecessary economic damage is done and there is more statism and Orwellian creep. Do we really want to live in a world that is more akin to a Communist nation? No thanks.

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Re: Vaccination Passport Qantas

#360924

Postby Dod101 » November 28th, 2020, 4:42 pm

john10001's views are fine so long as the virus can be confined to him but he cannot guarantee that he is not likely to spread it around. I do not know whether any vaccination will stop that anyway, but if I am vaccinated I assume that that significantly reduces my chances of catching it and it surely follows from that that the chances of my passing it on to others is similarly reduced. Considering that Australia, although it has had some serious outbreaks, seems to have controlled it better than some other countries, maybe the CEO of Qantas has a point. Mind you, my somewhat limited experience of Qantas does not encourage me to want to use them again anyway.

I have no argument about anyone being pro choice when it comes to his/her health but that is the point, his/her health. I assume that a vaccine is helping others avoid Covid 19 as well. No man is an island and all that. I am not sure which world john10001 lives in but although I travel quite a bit , his world seems very different to the one I in habit. Must be quite interesting to be ''scanned, microchipped, x-rayed, radiated, injected, metal detected, prodded, poked, harassed, treated like cattle, fondled, inappropriately touched, shaken down, strip-searched, humiliated, and violated by the State, their goons, airport security, and the airlines and treated like common criminals and pariahs.''

Maybe a touch OTT?

And if seasonal flu is so insignificant, why is it that many people get a flu vaccination annually?

Dod

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Re: Vaccination Passport Qantas

#360929

Postby Lootman » November 28th, 2020, 4:49 pm

john10001 wrote:I don't understand why the Qantas CEO would be proposing something so Orwellian for something no worse than seasonal flu and with a higher survival rate. I think the comments by the CEO of Qantas is very much an overreaction and a very disturbing one at that.

The entire Australian response to Covid has been excessively restrictive, with travel in and out of the country effectively banned for almost everyone. So this over-reaction needs to be seen in that context.

Bear in mind also that Qantas does not fly domestically and so this directive specifically targets foreigners and international travel only.

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Re: Vaccination Passport Qantas

#360953

Postby swill453 » November 28th, 2020, 5:49 pm

Lootman wrote:Bear in mind also that Qantas does not fly domestically and so this directive specifically targets foreigners and international travel only.

Hmm, you could also spin it that's it's protecting foreigners, by insisting that any Australian natives it takes to their countries are vaccinated first.

Scott.

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Re: Vaccination Passport Qantas

#360964

Postby chas49 » November 28th, 2020, 6:21 pm

Moderator Message:
As this has gone beyond the scope of a DAK, I'm moving it to the Airport Lounge board (chas49)

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Re: Vaccination Passport Qantas

#361063

Postby servodude » November 29th, 2020, 12:35 am

swill453 wrote:
Lootman wrote:Bear in mind also that Qantas does not fly domestically and so this directive specifically targets foreigners and international travel only.

Hmm, you could also spin it that's it's protecting foreigners, by insisting that any Australian natives it takes to their countries are vaccinated first.

Scott.



He's a bit of a gobshite is Alan Joyce (something about running an airline attracts than) and this smells like marketing; he'll be attracting more passengers in the short term because Qantas are carrying more "domestic" passengers than anything else at the moment, and this plays straight to the cautious approach for them.
How that works practically going forward given codesharing depends on how their partners react; but it looks like a successful "on brand" decision to curry local favour at the moment.

-sd

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Re: Vaccination Passport Qantas

#361154

Postby Lootman » November 29th, 2020, 12:51 pm

servodude wrote:
swill453 wrote:
Lootman wrote:Bear in mind also that Qantas does not fly domestically and so this directive specifically targets foreigners and international travel only.

Hmm, you could also spin it that's it's protecting foreigners, by insisting that any Australian natives it takes to their countries are vaccinated first.

He's a bit of a gobshite is Alan Joyce (something about running an airline attracts than) and this smells like marketing; he'll be attracting more passengers in the short term because Qantas are carrying more "domestic" passengers than anything else at the moment, and this plays straight to the cautious approach for them.

How that works practically going forward given codesharing depends on how their partners react; but it looks like a successful "on brand" decision to curry local favour at the moment.

When I was in Australia, albeit 30 years ago, Qantas could not fly Australians domestically. Non-Australians could however and I flew from Brisbane to Sydney on a fairly empty Qantas flight. There were a couple of other airlines for domestic flights.

Has that changed?

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Re: Vaccination Passport Qantas

#361298

Postby Dod101 » November 29th, 2020, 11:30 pm

Lootman wrote:
servodude wrote:
swill453 wrote:Hmm, you could also spin it that's it's protecting foreigners, by insisting that any Australian natives it takes to their countries are vaccinated first.

He's a bit of a gobshite is Alan Joyce (something about running an airline attracts than) and this smells like marketing; he'll be attracting more passengers in the short term because Qantas are carrying more "domestic" passengers than anything else at the moment, and this plays straight to the cautious approach for them.

How that works practically going forward given codesharing depends on how their partners react; but it looks like a successful "on brand" decision to curry local favour at the moment.

When I was in Australia, albeit 30 years ago, Qantas could not fly Australians domestically. Non-Australians could however and I flew from Brisbane to Sydney on a fairly empty Qantas flight. There were a couple of other airlines for domestic flights.

Has that changed?


The Qantas of 30 years ago was quite good and had an excellent safety record as I recall, but the one today is very different. In the last couple of years I guess,I flew with them from Singapore to Perth, WA and then I think on to Melbourne. Not a good flight as I recall.

Dod

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Re: Vaccination Passport Qantas

#361307

Postby servodude » November 29th, 2020, 11:51 pm

Dod101 wrote:
Lootman wrote:
servodude wrote:He's a bit of a gobshite is Alan Joyce (something about running an airline attracts than) and this smells like marketing; he'll be attracting more passengers in the short term because Qantas are carrying more "domestic" passengers than anything else at the moment, and this plays straight to the cautious approach for them.

How that works practically going forward given codesharing depends on how their partners react; but it looks like a successful "on brand" decision to curry local favour at the moment.

When I was in Australia, albeit 30 years ago, Qantas could not fly Australians domestically. Non-Australians could however and I flew from Brisbane to Sydney on a fairly empty Qantas flight. There were a couple of other airlines for domestic flights.

Has that changed?


The Qantas of 30 years ago was quite good and had an excellent safety record as I recall, but the one today is very different. In the last couple of years I guess,I flew with them from Singapore to Perth, WA and then I think on to Melbourne. Not a good flight as I recall.

Dod


You can see the interview with Joyce at https://9now.nine.com.au/a-current-affa ... f8120ede2f
- he mentions that the MEL - SYD route went from 45 flights a day to 1 after the pandemic hit and is now back to 7 which explains why pricing around xmas is a bit steeper than usual (so we're sailing to Tasmania instead :) )

Qantas' domestic routes (https://www.qantas.com/au/en/flight-deals/domestic.html) are marketed as a step up from their "Jetstar" budget subsidiary. The use their own craft and work on codeshare with their international partners for connections.
They have been serviced for the past few years using the the same ground/maintenance crew - after a few high profile problems with outsourcing that side of things

They're a pretty lazy operator in terms of quality and have relied on customer inertia for years.
They are however convenient for domestic business flights because they have access to the main terminals and facilities - which can cut out a good hour each side in the airport compared to the budget airlines (well that's the case for the airports that are more than glorified carparks)

- sd

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Re: Vaccination Passport Qantas

#361309

Postby Dod101 » November 29th, 2020, 11:59 pm

That's interesting because it sort of aligns with my experience as a foreigner picking up a domestic connection. Qantas really nowadays do not give a very good impression to folk like me I must say.

Dod

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Re: Vaccination Passport Qantas

#361314

Postby servodude » November 30th, 2020, 12:38 am

Dod101 wrote:That's interesting because it sort of aligns with my experience as a foreigner picking up a domestic connection. Qantas really nowadays do not give a very good impression to folk like me I must say.

Dod


Indeed, they would never be my first choice
- but outside of the capital cities (which is quite a lot of airports) there's not really any competition so they have managed to get away with it
- https://www.qantas.com/au/en/travel-inf ... anges.html

- sd

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Re: Vaccination Passport Qantas

#361324

Postby john10001 » November 30th, 2020, 2:54 am

Dod101 wrote:Maybe a touch OTT?

And if seasonal flu is so insignificant, why is it that many people get a flu vaccination annually?

Dod


I don't think so and many would agree. Unfortunately, there are quite a lot of people who are frogs in slowly boiling water and want to kiss the jackboot of whichever politician or CEO is proposing more statist authoritarianism and lockdowns. I hope they don't complain when the economy takes a massive hit, more businesses close for good, and people's homes are being repossessed.

If the flu vaccine is effective why do you need a new one every year?

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Re: Vaccination Passport Qantas

#361325

Postby servodude » November 30th, 2020, 3:32 am

john10001 wrote:If the flu vaccine is effective why do you need a new one every year?


just in case you didn't know flu isn't a single virus
- at present sars-cov2 is close enough to one that you can expect that the vaccines will cover it

you'd have to look back quite away to find a flu pandemic that was comparable to the one caused by this virus

Let's see what we can find..
https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/ ... n-history/ gives some comparisons for the states:
2009 H1N1 pandemic killed 12,469 Americans
1968 Influenza A pandemic killed ~100,000 people
1957-1958 Influenza A pandemic took 116,000 U.S. lives

- last time I looked it they were at ~250k dead Americans so far
which means those numbers are all quite a bit lower (use either "taking away" or "dividing") than the current death tally in the states from COVID since Feb

so you can see why it might be good for an airline's image to be trying to restrict access to those that have taken the vaccine
- particularly when there are parts of the planet where the "it's just the flu" perception persists

-sd


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