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New rules for travelling to Spain

Holiday Ideas & Foreign Travel
Fluke
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New rules for travelling to Spain

#517872

Postby Fluke » July 28th, 2022, 11:48 am

Can anyone substantiate the media stories circulating this week regarding new rules for UK travellers to Spain? Includes things like needing to prove that you have enough spending money, that you have a return ticket and accommodation, that sort of thing. Can't see any reference to it on gov.uk for instance. If true I'd like to see some detail, eg who does and doesn't it apply to? Will it apply to all Spanish ports and borders? how do they check? Bank statements?

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Re: New rules for travelling to Spain

#517876

Postby seagles » July 28th, 2022, 12:00 pm

Quick google search gives this from gov.uk


Additional documents required by tourists

At Spanish border control, you may need to:

show a return or onward ticket
show you have enough money for your stay
show proof of accommodation for your stay, for example, a hotel booking confirmation, proof of address if visiting your own property (e.g. second home), or an invitation from your host or proof of their address if staying with a third party, friends or family. The Spanish government has clarified that the “carta de invitation” is one of the options available to prove that you have accommodation if staying with friends or family. More information is available from the Spanish Ministry of Interior.

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Re: New rules for travelling to Spain

#517879

Postby Spet0789 » July 28th, 2022, 12:05 pm

They’re not new rules.

They’re the same rules Spain has applied for years to 3rd country tourists with no right of residence in Spain. A number of other countries including the U.K. have similar rules.

In practice, this will likely be spot-checked at airports and ports. If you can show a credit card or bank statement with appropriate limit/funds, an accommodation booking and a ticket home you’ll be fine.

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Re: New rules for travelling to Spain

#517881

Postby Fluke » July 28th, 2022, 12:09 pm

seagles wrote:Quick google search gives this from gov.uk


Additional documents required by tourists

At Spanish border control, you may need to:

show a return or onward ticket
show you have enough money for your stay
show proof of accommodation for your stay, for example, a hotel booking confirmation, proof of address if visiting your own property (e.g. second home), or an invitation from your host or proof of their address if staying with a third party, friends or family. The Spanish government has clarified that the “carta de invitation” is one of the options available to prove that you have accommodation if staying with friends or family. More information is available from the Spanish Ministry of Interior.


That's the link I checked but can't see any of what you've pasted in above. Where abouts is it? Also is it just general potential further checks or is it something new for 2022 that they will definitely be doing for all non EU travellers?

Next question is how will those checks be done? Perhaps they'll adapt their passenger locator form to include further info?

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Re: New rules for travelling to Spain

#517885

Postby Fluke » July 28th, 2022, 12:17 pm

Spet0789 wrote:They’re not new rules.

They’re the same rules Spain has applied for years to 3rd country tourists with no right of residence in Spain. A number of other countries including the U.K. have similar rules.

In practice, this will likely be spot-checked at airports and ports. If you can show a credit card or bank statement with appropriate limit/funds, an accommodation booking and a ticket home you’ll be fine.


Saw this after I posted. That's useful thanks.

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Re: New rules for travelling to Spain

#517914

Postby Spet0789 » July 28th, 2022, 1:54 pm

Fluke wrote:
Spet0789 wrote:They’re not new rules.

They’re the same rules Spain has applied for years to 3rd country tourists with no right of residence in Spain. A number of other countries including the U.K. have similar rules.

In practice, this will likely be spot-checked at airports and ports. If you can show a credit card or bank statement with appropriate limit/funds, an accommodation booking and a ticket home you’ll be fine.


Saw this after I posted. That's useful thanks.


You’re welcome. Generally, I’m sure the worst that will happen if you’re polite and try and show the border officials what they are asking for will be a 5 minute delay. Tourists who try “I’ve been coming here for years, you can take a running jump, don’t you know we British tourists pay your salary, etc etc.” are the only ones at risk of having their holidays disrupted.

Of course when ETIAS is introduced next year, things will get more complicated again. There, without the right paperwork, you will be sent home.

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Re: New rules for travelling to Spain

#517920

Postby Lootman » July 28th, 2022, 2:04 pm

Spet0789 wrote:Of course when ETIAS is introduced next year, things will get more complicated again. There, without the right paperwork, you will be sent home.

Or it could mean that people decide take their holidays in countries that don't require ETIAS.

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Re: New rules for travelling to Spain

#518030

Postby Spet0789 » July 28th, 2022, 9:12 pm

Lootman wrote:
Spet0789 wrote:Of course when ETIAS is introduced next year, things will get more complicated again. There, without the right paperwork, you will be sent home.

Or it could mean that people decide take their holidays in countries that don't require ETIAS.


Have you read the thread title? Or were you too busy thinking about a holiday in one of the many other countries (US for example) that have a similar system?

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Re: New rules for travelling to Spain

#518032

Postby Lootman » July 28th, 2022, 9:16 pm

Spet0789 wrote:
Lootman wrote:
Spet0789 wrote:Of course when ETIAS is introduced next year, things will get more complicated again. There, without the right paperwork, you will be sent home.

Or it could mean that people decide take their holidays in countries that don't require ETIAS.

Have you read the thread title? Or were you too busy thinking about a holiday in one of the many other countries (US for example) that have a similar system?

I was addressing the Schengen issue specifically since that is what is relevant here.

And there are plenty of closer places to go on holiday to that are outside Schengen e.g. Ireland, Croatia, Montenegro, Turkey, Morocco.

But I preferred North America and Asia as holiday destinations long before the EU decided that it did not want my money.

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Re: New rules for travelling to Spain

#520477

Postby UncleEbenezer » August 7th, 2022, 12:17 pm

seagles wrote: show proof of accommodation for your stay,

That one bug me. Fair enough for a business trip, but if I'm on holiday there's no way I want to constrain myself by booking this kind of thing in advance: I want the freedom to move around on a whim, e.g. when I hear of something interesting, or to change my plans to suit the weather. And I usually want to spend time in the Great Outdoors away from any human dwelling.

If I have to plan my nights in advance, it's not a bloomin' holiday!

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Re: New rules for travelling to Spain

#520523

Postby swill453 » August 7th, 2022, 4:04 pm

UncleEbenezer wrote:That one bug me. Fair enough for a business trip, but if I'm on holiday there's no way I want to constrain myself by booking this kind of thing in advance: I want the freedom to move around on a whim, e.g. when I hear of something interesting, or to change my plans to suit the weather. And I usually want to spend time in the Great Outdoors away from any human dwelling.

Sounds like you want Freedom of Movement. It rings a bell, wasn't there some organisation offering that?.....

Scott.

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Re: New rules for travelling to Spain

#520529

Postby Lootman » August 7th, 2022, 4:40 pm

UncleEbenezer wrote:
seagles wrote:show proof of accommodation for your stay,

That one bug me. Fair enough for a business trip, but if I'm on holiday there's no way I want to constrain myself by booking this kind of thing in advance: I want the freedom to move around on a whim, e.g. when I hear of something interesting, or to change my plans to suit the weather. And I usually want to spend time in the Great Outdoors away from any human dwelling.

If I have to plan my nights in advance, it's not a bloomin' holiday!

If it were that important then you could book some fully-refundable accommodation purely for the purpose of satisfying this silly requirement, and then cancel it as soon as you get past customs. Some hotel chains will let you cancel for no charge up to 2 p.m. on the day of arrival.

The US requires an address for your first night in the country, which is not an onerous requirement. After that they don't seem to care. And I very much doubt that they check with the hotel to see if you really are staying there - they don't ask for proof, just your statement of an address.

Very occasionally a US border guard will ask me how much cash I have with me. But that is more a concern about people bringing in too much rather than too little!

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Re: New rules for travelling to Spain

#520530

Postby Spet0789 » August 7th, 2022, 4:43 pm

swill453 wrote:
UncleEbenezer wrote:That one bug me. Fair enough for a business trip, but if I'm on holiday there's no way I want to constrain myself by booking this kind of thing in advance: I want the freedom to move around on a whim, e.g. when I hear of something interesting, or to change my plans to suit the weather. And I usually want to spend time in the Great Outdoors away from any human dwelling.

Sounds like you want Freedom of Movement. It rings a bell, wasn't there some organisation offering that?.....

Scott.


Looks like the Spanish have the right to ask what they like of visitors to their country. There's a word for that, it's on the tip of my tongue. Starts with an s.

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Re: New rules for travelling to Spain

#520561

Postby UncleEbenezer » August 7th, 2022, 6:53 pm

Lootman wrote:
UncleEbenezer wrote:
seagles wrote:show proof of accommodation for your stay,

That one bug me. Fair enough for a business trip, but if I'm on holiday there's no way I want to constrain myself by booking this kind of thing in advance: I want the freedom to move around on a whim, e.g. when I hear of something interesting, or to change my plans to suit the weather. And I usually want to spend time in the Great Outdoors away from any human dwelling.

If I have to plan my nights in advance, it's not a bloomin' holiday!

If it were that important then you could book some fully-refundable accommodation purely for the purpose of satisfying this silly requirement, and then cancel it as soon as you get past customs. Some hotel chains will let you cancel for no charge up to 2 p.m. on the day of arrival.


I fear my own sense of right and wrong gets in the way of that. Unless perhaps there were a hotel chain owned by the same government that imposed the nonsense on me.

I have knowingly booked a hotel on the basis that I could cancel - such as when travelling to Brussels for FOSDEM when snow might have prevented me getting there (it didn't, and I duly stayed at the hotel I had booked). But to do so with the intention of letting them down is a step too far.

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Re: New rules for travelling to Spain

#520569

Postby Lootman » August 7th, 2022, 7:09 pm

UncleEbenezer wrote:
Lootman wrote:
UncleEbenezer wrote:
seagles wrote:show proof of accommodation for your stay,

That one bug me. Fair enough for a business trip, but if I'm on holiday there's no way I want to constrain myself by booking this kind of thing in advance: I want the freedom to move around on a whim, e.g. when I hear of something interesting, or to change my plans to suit the weather. And I usually want to spend time in the Great Outdoors away from any human dwelling.

If I have to plan my nights in advance, it's not a bloomin' holiday!

If it were that important then you could book some fully-refundable accommodation purely for the purpose of satisfying this silly requirement, and then cancel it as soon as you get past customs. Some hotel chains will let you cancel for no charge up to 2 p.m. on the day of arrival.

I fear my own sense of right and wrong gets in the way of that. Unless perhaps there were a hotel chain owned by the same government that imposed the nonsense on me.

I have knowingly booked a hotel on the basis that I could cancel - such as when travelling to Brussels for FOSDEM when snow might have prevented me getting there (it didn't, and I duly stayed at the hotel I had booked). But to do so with the intention of letting them down is a step too far.

I get that. But don't feel too sorry for hotels, at least not the big chains like Hilton, Marriott, Accor etc. They know how many cancellations they typically get and price accordingly. And there have been times when I booked a non-refundable hotel - because they are the cheapest room rates - and then I could not go and so they got the money for nothing, and could re-sell the room to a walk-in.

After airlines, hotel chains are probably the best at yield management. I have different rules for the big chains than I do for a mom-and-pop B&B.

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Re: New rules for travelling to Spain

#520597

Postby UncleEbenezer » August 7th, 2022, 8:18 pm

Lootman wrote:
UncleEbenezer wrote:
Lootman wrote:
UncleEbenezer wrote:
seagles wrote:show proof of accommodation for your stay,

That one bug me. Fair enough for a business trip, but if I'm on holiday there's no way I want to constrain myself by booking this kind of thing in advance: I want the freedom to move around on a whim, e.g. when I hear of something interesting, or to change my plans to suit the weather. And I usually want to spend time in the Great Outdoors away from any human dwelling.

If I have to plan my nights in advance, it's not a bloomin' holiday!

If it were that important then you could book some fully-refundable accommodation purely for the purpose of satisfying this silly requirement, and then cancel it as soon as you get past customs. Some hotel chains will let you cancel for no charge up to 2 p.m. on the day of arrival.

I fear my own sense of right and wrong gets in the way of that. Unless perhaps there were a hotel chain owned by the same government that imposed the nonsense on me.

I have knowingly booked a hotel on the basis that I could cancel - such as when travelling to Brussels for FOSDEM when snow might have prevented me getting there (it didn't, and I duly stayed at the hotel I had booked). But to do so with the intention of letting them down is a step too far.

I get that. But don't feel too sorry for hotels, at least not the big chains like Hilton, Marriott, Accor etc. They know how many cancellations they typically get and price accordingly. And there have been times when I booked a non-refundable hotel - because they are the cheapest room rates - and then I could not go and so they got the money for nothing, and could re-sell the room to a walk-in.

After airlines, hotel chains are probably the best at yield management. I have different rules for the big chains than I do for a mom-and-pop B&B.


Indeed, they're not victims one needs to feel too sorry for. But that's just haggling over the price of crime. Not technically crime, but minor fraud.

Funnily enough, the story I mentioned was a Marriott (the Renaissance). It was in Feb.2009, when hotels had slashed prices in response to market collapse, and I got it for €69/night including free breakfast and a voucher for €50 off my next stay at any Marriott. That's a chain desperately cutting its losses! I blogged at the time:
I’m getting very doubtful about getting to FOSDEM. No problems here in the southwest, but checking several points en route to London, it seems that as soon as you hit the southeast, more “heavy snow”[1] is forecast. Whereas London itself is forecast clear and Taunton (Somerset – the far end of southwest England) gets only sleet, as soon as you cross into Wiltshire and Berkshire it’s heavy snow. I checked forecasts for Westbury, Newbury and Reading, representing perhaps 100 miles of the journey, and all are to get the snow.

I’ve already refrained from booking a Eurostar ticket, because they’re non-refundable. That’s a pain, but I confirmed on the ‘phone that if I just buy when I arrive at the station, the price will not be worse than a fully flexible ticket.

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Re: New rules for travelling to Spain

#521236

Postby didds » August 10th, 2022, 7:53 am

WRT booked hotels etc...

and thinking laterally and not a serious suggestion (probably!), more as a moot discussion, how would Spanish immigration know of every single option in Spain ?

If you were to knock up a fake letter/email from "Chica's B&B" for the dates etc - are they really going to check that's on some register of accommodation? And if there is some sort of register, how do they possibly keep it up to date every day? Or do they phone it to check - for every passenger ?

Or even a fake email from a REAL small hotel you found on the web?

Surely these things cant really be seriously and fully "policed" 100% - it would be impractical?

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Re: New rules for travelling to Spain

#521263

Postby Spet0789 » August 10th, 2022, 9:31 am

Snorvey wrote:I guess the problem would be if the Spanish authorities, for whatever reason, found out your letter was a fake.

Further questions would need to be answered....


I think it’s very simple. Next flight home and you may have problems going to Schengen in future.

Try that in the US for example… if you lie to CBP there you may never be allowed back in.

Very stupid risk to take in my view.

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Re: New rules for travelling to Spain

#521269

Postby didds » August 10th, 2022, 9:59 am

Spet0789 wrote:Very stupid risk to take in my view.



I don't disagree, hence this being moot.

But if one was generally travelling, no fixed plans, for several weeks... how would one honestly have several weeks genuinely advanced bookings all made in preparation? Thats the point - not everybody is taking a week in magaluf in some generic package holiday hotel.

And - oo.. what of those with campervans and motorhomes - you just point at the vehicle and say "aqui" ?

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Re: New rules for travelling to Spain

#521387

Postby servodude » August 10th, 2022, 3:33 pm

didds wrote:
Spet0789 wrote:Very stupid risk to take in my view.



I don't disagree, hence this being moot.

But if one was generally travelling, no fixed plans, for several weeks... how would one honestly have several weeks genuinely advanced bookings all made in preparation? Thats the point - not everybody is taking a week in magaluf in some generic package holiday hotel.

And - oo.. what of those with campervans and motorhomes - you just point at the vehicle and say "aqui" ?


In that case they'd normally require evidence of a return flight (or equivalent) and proof of funds to support your galavanting.


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