Suitable stoppover location en route to the Far East (if there is one!)

[richfool]

In my advancing old age, I really struggle with long haul flights, and tend to resort to flying Bus class and direct for partly that reason. I can at least lay flat and try and sleep, though even then I rarely succeed. I usually end up arriving, feeling like a Zombie.

I need to make a trip (from the UK) to the Far East (Bangkok) soon and in an attempt to try and minimise the long distance travel affects and implications, I have been trying to think of somewhere, en route, where I could stopover for a couple of nights, - like a mini-holiday en route.

I have thought about the Middle East airlines, and thus stopping over in the Middle East, but that doesn't appeal to me. I also worry what if I became ill and had to be offloaded at that/some expensive Middle Eastern hub. Could be expensive. India and Sri Lanka don't really appeal, plus the fact they are already three-quarters of the way there.

I can't think of any Eastern European locations where one could fly to and stopover which would appeal, and they would tend not to be far enough into the journey. Turkey is about the only location I could think of in that sort of region. Though Turkish Airlines get far from good reviews and I would have to consider where I would 'stay over' in that en route stopover location. I wouldn't want to spend 2 nights in the airport and I wouldn't want to have to travel for several hours from the airport to a suitable resort type location (or beach resort).

Stopping over in places like Cyprus or Greece tend to then involve taking a Middle Eastern airline from there, i.e. via a ME hub, and thus adding to the number of flight legs, each way!

I seem to go round in ever decreasing circles and end up concluding that I should fly direct and take a couple of Lorazepams (with Dr's approval). At least I stand a better chance of my luggage arriving with me and of me not being stranded part way.

Then I thought I should pick the brains of this board and see if anyone can come up with any suitable solutions.

[Lootman]

If you are discounting the obvious layover locations like Doha, Abu Dhabi and Dubai, as well as Istanbul, then the only other place I can think of is flying El Al via Tel Aviv. Tel Aviv is a fun coastal city and there are a lot of hotels and resorts on the Med there. El Al appears to fly to Bangkok and Phuket, as well as to London of course.

EgyptAir and Ethiopian Airlines both have extensive networks but I am guessing that Africa doesn't sound like a holiday to you.

[richfool]

If you are discounting the obvious layover locations like Doha, Abu Dhabi and Dubai, as well as Istanbul, then the only other place I can think of is flying El Al via Tel Aviv. Tel Aviv is a fun coastal city and there are a lot of hotels and resorts on the Med there. El Al appears to fly to Bangkok and Phuket, as well as to London of course.

EgyptAir and Ethiopian Airlines both have extensive networks but I am guessing that Africa doesn't sound like a holiday to you.

Thank you, Lootman, for those suggestions. Yes, I had even come across Ethiopia as a possible flight route, but discounted it for the reasons you refer to.

Israel, Tel Aviv is a thought, though I'm not sure I would want an Israeli stamp in my passport, if I crossed paths with any terrorists. Though, thank you, I will have a look at that destination.

(For the record, I am comfortable with the (currently) 2 airlines that fly the LHR- BKK direct route, - EVA and Thai Air,- in that order of preference. BA are not flying that route currently.)

[Lootman]

If you are discounting the obvious layover locations like Doha, Abu Dhabi and Dubai, as well as Istanbul, then the only other place I can think of is flying El Al via Tel Aviv. Tel Aviv is a fun coastal city and there are a lot of hotels and resorts on the Med there. El Al appears to fly to Bangkok and Phuket, as well as to London of course.

EgyptAir and Ethiopian Airlines both have extensive networks but I am guessing that Africa doesn't sound like a holiday to you.

Thank you, Lootman, for those suggestions. Yes, I had even come across Ethiopia as a possible flight route, but discounted it for the reasons you refer to.

Israel, Tel Aviv is a thought, though I'm not sure I would want an Israeli stamp in my passport, if I crossed paths with any terrorists. Though, thank you, I will have a look at that destination.

(For the record, I am comfortable with the (currently) 2 airlines that fly the LHR- BKK direct route, - EVA and Thai Air,- in that order of preference. BA are not flying that route currently.)

Israeli border control officers are aware that many people do not want an Israel stamp on their passports, and will not stamp your passport upon request.

A trick is to make sure you also remove any security sticker that they attach to the back of the passport as that also identifies that you were there.

I have heard that some people who regularly travel to Israel, or any other nation that may appear controversial to some, have two passports - one for travel to Israel and one for everywhere else.

[richfool]

Ah, the flight time from Tel Aviv to Bangkok is c 10.5 hours, (on top of c 5.50 hours LHR to TLV), so that doesn't really help reduce the flight time, as LHR to BKK direct is about 11.5 hours.

[BullDog]

A vote for Istanbul. A terrific stop over for a couple or more days. So much to see and do.

Turkish Airlines - I am retired now but I used to travel extensively, I was a Star Alliance gold member through Turkish Airlines. Some of the best flights I have had were with them. I regularly flew with them via Istanbul to Seoul, Tokyo etc.... I was also gold with Emirates at the same time and I quite happily chose either Turkish or Emirates whichever suited me best. HTH.

[Lootman]

Ah, the flight time from Tel Aviv to Bangkok is c 10.5 hours, (on top of c 5.50 hours LHR to TLV), so that doesn't really help reduce the flight time, as LHR to BKK direct is about 11.5 hours.

That struck me as odd as TLV-BKK is only 4,300 miles or so, which should take much less time than that.

A quick look at Flightaware shows the problem. Evidently El Al cannot overfly Saudi Arabia and so has to go around it:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ELY82

Saudi Arabia banned Qatar Air from overflying its territory as well but I believe that was reversed recently.

Lots of routes to Asia are longer now because of the ban on using Russian air space. It has virtually killed off FinnAir's previously useful Asia routes via Helsinki, for example.

[Dod101]

For goodness's sake, how long does it take from London to Bangkok direct? 8/9 hours? Simple, easy, no problem. Just do it. I have done it and more many times over the age of 70, so either get fit or forget the trip. In fact I am planning to go to Hong Kong shortly now that their quarantine restrictions have been lifted and I am now 80. No problem direct from London. Long distance air travel is so easy nowadays. I recalled somewhere on this site my first trip to HK in 1968 which took about 21 hours on the same aircraft, a 707. Now I would not recommend that in old age (or at any other age actually)

If you need a stopover, then the middle east is the obvious place.

Dod

[Lootman]

For goodness's sake, how long does it take from London to Bangkok direct? 8/9 hours? Simple, easy, no problem. Just do it.

Richfool said that LHR-BKK was 11.5 hours, so it is not entirely unreasonable to want to break that journey.

Another idea would be to stump up for First Class on a direct flight. Whereas in Business Class I just want to sleep the flight away, in First I actually want to stay awake and enjoy the service and the entertainment. Thai Airways has first class and is supposed to be very good, although I haven't flown with them:

https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... rst-class/

BA isn't flying that route at the moment, so Thai may be the only non-stop option anyway.

[Dod101]

OK Maybe I am being OTT but I am surprised that it takes 11 1/2 hours to get direct to Bangkok. You can certainly be in Hong Kong in that time, although only by flying over Chinese airspace. It is by a good way, further east.

These days that is not a long flight anyway, but never mind, it is not me,

Dod

[richfool]

From my earlier post:

(For the record, I am comfortable with the (currently) 2 airlines that fly the LHR- BKK direct route, - EVA and Thai Air,- in that order of preference. BA are not flying that route currently.)

To clarify, I much prefer a direct flight. Unfortunately my preferred airline, EVA, and also Thai Air, both have evening flight departures from London. Whilst in theory, that is ideal/preferable, in that one should be able to sleep the flight away. In reality, I invariably fail to sleep. Perhaps the anticipation/excitement of the trip, accompanied with frequent toilet visits, bouts of restless leg syndrome and some other issues, usually succeed in keeping me awake. Thus, by the time I get there, I am feeling like a Zombie. The return flights are day flights leaving BKK around 1.00pm arriving into Heathrow some 12 hours later at c7.30pm UK local time, 1.30am Thailand/body clock time. That is a bit draining, but at least its not overnight.

Flights currently are expensive. Economy returns close to £1000. Business class are triple that plus a bit. So I won't be looking at First Class (which Thai have, but EVA do not). At least with Bus class, I can lay down properly. I can't sleep sitting up.

The reason I was thinking of a stopover en route, and one of a day or two, was that maybe I could have broken the journey into two separate trips/destinations and facilitate sleeping at the stopover destination. However, after checking Turkish Airlines this afternoon, and finding they want c £6k for a Bus class return flight, I am likely to stick with EVA at c£3K and Thai c £4K.

We already have flights booked for next February, at marginally cheaper fares. I had been trying to squeeze an extra trip in this Autumn/November. Unfortunately, airlines may discount unsold Economy tickets, but they seldom seem to do so with Bus class fares, presumably because there are relatively so few of those. So it looks like I will have to bite my tongue and stick with what I have (or perhaps bring forward the outbound leg by a week).

PS. Dod, it's something like 11.5 hours out and 12.5 hours return, maybe with some variation because of not overflying Ukraine or Russia.

[Dod101]

From my earlier post:

(For the record, I am comfortable with the (currently) 2 airlines that fly the LHR- BKK direct route, - EVA and Thai Air,- in that order of preference. BA are not flying that route currently.)

To clarify, I much prefer a direct flight. Unfortunately my preferred airline, EVA, and also Thai Air, both have evening flight departures from London. Whilst in theory, that is ideal/preferable, in that one should be able to sleep the flight away. In reality, I invariably fail to sleep. Perhaps the anticipation/excitement of the trip, accompanied with frequent toilet visits, bouts of restless leg syndrome and some other issues, usually succeed in keeping me awake. Thus, by the time I get there, I am feeling like a Zombie. The return flights are day flights leaving BKK around 1.00pm arriving into Heathrow some 12 hours later at c7.30pm UK local time, 1.30am Thailand/body clock time. That is a bit draining, but at least its not overnight.

Flights currently are expensive. Economy returns close to £1000. Business class are triple that plus a bit. So I won't be looking at First Class (which Thai have, but EVA do not). At least with Bus class, I can lay down properly. I can't sleep sitting up.

The reason I was thinking of a stopover en route, and one of a day or two, was that maybe I could have broken the journey into two separate trips/destinations and facilitate sleeping at the stopover destination. However, after checking Turkish Airlines this afternoon, and finding they want c £6k for a Bus class return flight, I am likely to stick with EVA at c£3K and Thai c £4K.

We already have flights booked for next February, at marginally cheaper fares. I had been trying to squeeze an extra trip in this Autumn/November. Unfortunately, airlines may discount unsold Economy tickets, but they seldom seem to do so with Bus class fares, presumably because there are relatively so few of those. So it looks like I will have to bite my tongue and stick with what I have (or perhaps bring forward the outbound leg by a week).

PS. Dod, it's something like 11.5 hours out and 12.5 hours return, maybe with some variation because of not overflying Ukraine or Russia.

Quite honestly, I have no suggestions. Having read your first post, I can see that you clearly have problems but I think if you are going to undertake the trip, you might as well bite the bullet and fly direct. I am fortunate that I can do the trip from say Singapore to Heathrow (13 1/2 hours on a good day) with no problem in Premium Economy or whatever it is called, and then up to Edinburgh.

Just try to be stoic and get on with it.

Dod

[richfool]

I did used to fly Premium Economy with EVA. On one such occasion, there were many empty seats, and some people in the middle section of Economy seating were raising the armrests and sleeping across the seats. I had no one next to me in Premium Economy, so went to do the same, only to find that the double width armrests in PE were fixed and couldn't be raised.

Later, in desperation, I squeezed down and laid along the floor in front of the seats. I got away with that for about an hour, until cabin crew spotted me, shook my feet and told me I couldn't do that. Hence the subsequent decision to fly Bus class.

I understand that New Zealand Airlines are introducing a type of 3 storey bunk beds at the rear of Premium Economy, which can be booked in 4 hour segments. Though only on the US - New Zealand route.

I tried an indirect flight with Emirates once before, via Dubai, (at the time of the 2004 World Cup), but after being kicked in the back by football fans on the first leg, then hanging around a freezing cold airport terminal for 4 hours in the middle of the night with all the seats occupied by people sleeping, when all
I wanted do was sleep myself, I decided no thanks, not again and reverted to direct flights.

When living in Phuket, I did fly via KUL and SIN, with Malaysian and Singapore Airlines a couple of times, (as opposed to first flying back up to Bangkok). Though their flight times from KUL abd SIN back to the UK are about 13 and 14 hours respectively.

Hence my thoughts of a mini-holiday somewhere en route. Though, as I travel light, one would also have to be mindful of needing clothing for a different climate if stopping somewhere colder en route.

[BullDog]

I did used to fly Premium Economy with EVA. On one such occasion, there were many empty seats, and some people in the middle section of Economy seating were raising the armrests and sleeping across the seats. I had no one next to me in Premium Economy, so went to do the same, only to find that the double width armrests in PE were fixed and couldn't be raised.

Later, in desperation, I squeezed down and laid along the floor in front of the seats. I got away with that for about an hour, until cabin crew spotted me, shook my feet and told me I couldn't do that. Hence the subsequent decision to fly Bus class.

I understand that New Zealand Airlines are introducing a type of 3 storey bunk beds at the rear of Premium Economy, which can be booked in 4 hour segments. Though only on the US - New Zealand route.

I tried an indirect flight with Emirates once before, via Dubai, (at the time of the 2004 World Cup), but after being kicked in the back by football fans on the first leg, then hanging around a freezing cold airport terminal for 4 hours in the middle of the night with all the seats occupied by people sleeping, when all
I wanted do was sleep myself, I decided no thanks, not again and reverted to direct flights.

When living in Phuket, I did fly via KUL and SIN, with Malaysian and Singapore Airlines a couple of times, (as opposed to first flying back up to Bangkok). Though their flight times from KUL abd SIN back to the UK are about 13 and 14 hours respectively.

Hence my thoughts of a mini-holiday somewhere en route. Though, as I travel light, one would also have to be mindful of needing clothing for a different climate if stopping somewhere colder en route.

I have great sympathy with your conundrum. Long haul flying can be a real bind at times. And post covid + weak GBP long haul business class is now unbelievably expensive. I think I would look again at Istanbul in your shoes. LHR to IST is 3hr 55min. IST to BKK is 9hr 40min. Definitely worth a second look in my view. IST is now a shiny new modern airport outside the city. A few days in Istanbul is terrific, especially if you've never been before. Family run hotels right in the old city are not too expensive and can be great options. Lots of good local eating establishments on every street and the Turks are very good at food in my opinion. HTH.

One more thought. If you haven't visited Oman, that's an excellent option. LHR to MCT is 7hr 25min. MCT to BKK is 6hr 10min. And Muscat is a really very nice place indeed to stay a few days. Much more interesting than anywhere in UAE etc...

[Newroad]

Hi Richfool.

Big picture, I'm with Dod - I'd go straight to Bangkok in the best class you can afford.

If you must stopover, then I would suggest Business Class with Qatar Airways (make sure your flights are in one of the planes with the new Q-Suite cabins, i.e. not the A380's or the older 777's) - they are awesome IMO. Places like Doha are a matter of taste, but for me, likely to be enjoyable - maybe chill out with a private tour sometime in the mix. Even if not, one night to stretch out somewhere in a nice hotel may suit.

Regards, Newroad

[richfool]

Hi Richfool.

Big picture, I'm with Dod - I'd go straight to Bangkok in the best class you can afford.

If you must stopover, then I would suggest Business Class with Qatar Airways (make sure your flights are in one of the planes with the new Q-Suite cabins, i.e. not the A380's or the older 777's) - they are awesome IMO. Places like Doha are a matter of taste, but for me, likely to be enjoyable - maybe chill out with a private tour sometime in the mix. Even if not, one night to stretch out somewhere in a nice hotel may suit.

Regards, Newroad

Just for the record, I ended up booking a direct flight with Thai Air, Bus class. Night flights both ways. The plan is to forego the champagne and instead take a Lorazepam to help the sleep side of things.

[Dod101]

Hi Richfool.

Big picture, I'm with Dod - I'd go straight to Bangkok in the best class you can afford.

If you must stopover, then I would suggest Business Class with Qatar Airways (make sure your flights are in one of the planes with the new Q-Suite cabins, i.e. not the A380's or the older 777's) - they are awesome IMO. Places like Doha are a matter of taste, but for me, likely to be enjoyable - maybe chill out with a private tour sometime in the mix. Even if not, one night to stretch out somewhere in a nice hotel may suit.

Regards, Newroad

Just for the record, I ended up booking a direct flight with Thai Air, Bus class. Night flights both ways. The plan is to forego the champagne and instead take a Lorazepam to help the sleep side of things.

Remember to tell us how you got on!

Dod

[servodude]

Hi Richfool.

Big picture, I'm with Dod - I'd go straight to Bangkok in the best class you can afford.

If you must stopover, then I would suggest Business Class with Qatar Airways (make sure your flights are in one of the planes with the new Q-Suite cabins, i.e. not the A380's or the older 777's) - they are awesome IMO. Places like Doha are a matter of taste, but for me, likely to be enjoyable - maybe chill out with a private tour sometime in the mix. Even if not, one night to stretch out somewhere in a nice hotel may suit.

Regards, Newroad

Just for the record, I ended up booking a direct flight with Thai Air, Bus class. Night flights both ways. The plan is to forego the champagne and instead take a Lorazepam to help the sleep side of things.

Remember to tell us how you got on!

Dod

Indeed!
Might be a bit tardy as advice... but getting your first leg started when you're normally getting ready for bed always works well for me with respect to actually getting some kip on a long haul
Enjoy yourself
-sd

[redsturgeon]

I can never sleep on planes, I suppose being 6ft 3in and now nearer 70 than 60 it is not getting any easier. In fact I am thinking of turning down an all expenses paid free week in the Dominican Republic in March because the won't allow me to upgrade from the economy ticket.

John

[richfool]

I can never sleep on planes, I suppose being 6ft 3in and now nearer 70 than 60 it is not getting any easier. In fact I am thinking of turning down an all expenses paid free week in the Dominican Republic in March because the won't allow me to upgrade from the economy ticket.

John

I can understand that!

And frequently needing/queuing for a toilet is another one!

I've just been reading up on how little water I can get away with drinking on long haul flight to avoid dehydration, and the online answers/recommendations say that one should drink at least 250ml per hour, or 1 litre every 4 hours, on a long haul flight. So on a 12 hour flight, that would be 3 litres of water!! I think I used to drink about 3 x 250mls, so about 750mls. If I was to drink 3 litres, I wouldn't need a Bus class seat, I could spend my whole time in the toilet!!