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Scam calls - a new trick?

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Infrasonic
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Re: Scam calls - a new trick?

#451759

Postby Infrasonic » October 20th, 2021, 7:47 pm

Lootman wrote:
Infrasonic wrote:Unless you are going to go completely off grid and live in a field then your full name, D.O.B, address, emails, phone numbers etc. are going to be on Govt. (and company) databases some of which will be accessible from the internet and open to being hacked.

The following does not relate to spam/scam calls particularly, but rather to the concept of maintaining privacy.

I have had a focus on privacy for decades now, following an issue that arose before the internet was commonly used. I take the following steps to secure my privacy which have proven to be successful so far, including not being troubled by such calls.

1) I use a mailbox for all my correspondence and deliveries. The address looks like a normal street address rather than a POB. So anyone i do business with, e.g. banks, do not know where I live, only where my post is received.

2) I have almost never been on the electoral roll - exception was one year since 1987, just before we moved house.

3) All my household bills are in my wife's name, so even my local authority does not know I live in their jurisdiction

4) My email addresses (other than one which is just for close friends and families) are all in a name that looks like a real name but is not mine.

5) I have no social media accounts other than here, where I am careful not to give away too much personal information.

So it is possible to go "off the grid" whilst not literally being off the grid and living in the woods. It just takes commitment and for some it may be too late.


So presumably then no passport or drivers license, no national insurance number, no HMRC registration, NHS number? Or are all those in false names too?

I agree with some of your points - I've used P.O boxes and other methods of abstraction - but you aren't going to get away from your real world ID being on loads of server databases without committing fraud.

And if it exists on databases it can be hacked. Either with a bit of effort if misconfigured with plain text data or a lot of effort that might well fail if the database is properly configured/secured and fully encrypted at all points of potential access.

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Re: Scam calls - a new trick?

#451830

Postby Lootman » October 20th, 2021, 11:03 pm

Infrasonic wrote:
Lootman wrote:
Infrasonic wrote:Unless you are going to go completely off grid and live in a field then your full name, D.O.B, address, emails, phone numbers etc. are going to be on Govt. (and company) databases some of which will be accessible from the internet and open to being hacked.

The following does not relate to spam/scam calls particularly, but rather to the concept of maintaining privacy.

I have had a focus on privacy for decades now, following an issue that arose before the internet was commonly used. I take the following steps to secure my privacy which have proven to be successful so far, including not being troubled by such calls.

1) I use a mailbox for all my correspondence and deliveries. The address looks like a normal street address rather than a POB. So anyone i do business with, e.g. banks, do not know where I live, only where my post is received.

2) I have almost never been on the electoral roll - exception was one year since 1987, just before we moved house.

3) All my household bills are in my wife's name, so even my local authority does not know I live in their jurisdiction

4) My email addresses (other than one which is just for close friends and families) are all in a name that looks like a real name but is not mine.

5) I have no social media accounts other than here, where I am careful not to give away too much personal information.

So it is possible to go "off the grid" whilst not literally being off the grid and living in the woods. It just takes commitment and for some it may be too late.

So presumably then no passport or drivers license, no national insurance number, no HMRC registration, NHS number? Or are all those in false names too?

My real name is on those of course, but not my home address and not a phone number that I answer.

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Re: Scam calls - a new trick?

#451867

Postby Infrasonic » October 21st, 2021, 6:44 am

https://www.theregister.com/2021/10/20/ ... at_telcos/

A mysterious criminal gang is targeting telcos' Linux and Solaris boxes, because it perceives they aren't being watched by infosec teams that have focussed their efforts on securing Windows.

Security vendor CrowdStrike claims it's spotted the group and that it "has been consistently targeting the telecommunications sector at a global scale since at least 2016 … to retrieve highly specific information from mobile communication infrastructure, such as subscriber information and call metadata." The gang appears to understand telco operations well enough to surf the carrier-to-carrier links that enable mobile roaming, across borders and between carriers, to spread its payloads...
Cont.

Infrasonic
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Re: Scam calls - a new trick?

#451868

Postby Infrasonic » October 21st, 2021, 6:55 am


Infrasonic
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Re: Scam calls - a new trick?

#452197

Postby Infrasonic » October 22nd, 2021, 11:10 am

https://www.zdnet.com/article/t-mobile- ... d-to-know/

T-Mobile, one of the biggest telecommunications companies in the US, was hacked nearly two weeks ago, exposing the sensitive information of more than 50 million current, former and prospective customers.

Names, addresses, social security numbers, driver's licenses and ID information for about 48 million people were accessed in the hack, which initially came to light on August 16...
Cont.

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Re: Scam calls - a new trick?

#452287

Postby XFool » October 22nd, 2021, 3:39 pm

Well I did get a mysterious text message on my mobile yesterday. From a Dry Cleaner in Edgware, to tell me they will be closing for 3 weeks due to having a holiday.

SPAM? I suspect a wrong number.

OTOH I vaguely recall, years ago now, I did once take somebody's clothes to a dry cleaner in Edgware...

Watch this space! :)

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Re: Scam calls - a new trick?

#452340

Postby UncleEbenezer » October 22nd, 2021, 6:51 pm

XFool wrote:OTOH I vaguely recall, years ago now, I did once take somebody's clothes to a dry cleaner in Edgware...

Sinister. Where did you take the body?

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Re: Scam calls - a new trick?

#452343

Postby XFool » October 22nd, 2021, 7:16 pm

...Shh!

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Re: Scam calls - a new trick?

#452809

Postby swill453 » October 25th, 2021, 5:38 am

A relevant article today on the BBC https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59032795

Major phone networks have agreed to automatically block almost all internet calls coming from abroad if they pretend to be from UK numbers, Ofcom has confirmed.

Scott.

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Re: Scam calls - a new trick?

#452816

Postby GoSeigen » October 25th, 2021, 7:42 am

Infrasonic wrote:
pje16 wrote:
Infrasonic wrote:You clearly don't understand how scammers/spammers work and why it is so difficult to stop them - maybe have a read up on the many technicalities of off shored cloud PBX and database hacking and then come back with some actual knowledge?

Slightly condescending
I may not know technically but as I get hardly any, I know as much as I need to :!:


It's not condescending, it's calling out BS...


Exactly how I read it. I cannot believe that a person who thinks a sample of 2000 is not good enough ("A sample based on only 2,000 to represent 67m :roll:") also thinks a sample of one is perfectly acceptable ("I may not know technically but as I get hardly any, I know as much as I need to :!:").

Re the OP: I also think this is just a wrong number. The majority of my weird calls are from a previous owner of my number or a mistake.

GS

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Re: Scam calls - a new trick?

#452835

Postby XFool » October 25th, 2021, 8:45 am

Latest update on this:

Ofcom orders phone networks to block foreign scam calls

BBC News

Major phone networks have agreed to automatically block almost all internet calls coming from abroad if they pretend to be from UK numbers, Ofcom has confirmed.


Oops! Pipped at the post... (Need to get up much earlier)

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Re: Scam calls - a new trick?

#452836

Postby XFool » October 25th, 2021, 8:53 am

GoSeigen wrote:
Infrasonic wrote:
pje16 wrote:Slightly condescending
I may not know technically but as I get hardly any, I know as much as I need to :!:

It's not condescending, it's calling out BS...

Exactly how I read it. I cannot believe that a person who thinks a sample of 2000 is not good enough ("A sample based on only 2,000 to represent 67m :roll:") also thinks a sample of one is perfectly acceptable ("I may not know technically but as I get hardly any, I know as much as I need to :!:").

Re the OP: I also think this is just a wrong number. The majority of my weird calls are from a previous owner of my number or a mistake.

All very well to say that, however...

It does seem to neatly evade the strange fact that, down the years, some people claim to be plagued by scam phone calls/emails that are "unavoidable", while some of us claim to be virtually free of these pests. Perhaps we are "just making it up"?

Do you have a convincing and comprehensive answer? Or is it all just random chance?

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Re: Scam calls - a new trick?

#452840

Postby GoSeigen » October 25th, 2021, 9:38 am

XFool wrote:
GoSeigen wrote:
Infrasonic wrote:It's not condescending, it's calling out BS...

Exactly how I read it. I cannot believe that a person who thinks a sample of 2000 is not good enough ("A sample based on only 2,000 to represent 67m :roll:") also thinks a sample of one is perfectly acceptable ("I may not know technically but as I get hardly any, I know as much as I need to :!:").

Re the OP: I also think this is just a wrong number. The majority of my weird calls are from a previous owner of my number or a mistake.

All very well to say that, however...

It does seem to neatly evade the strange fact that, down the years, some people claim to be plagued by scam phone calls/emails that are "unavoidable", while some of us claim to be virtually free of these pests. Perhaps we are "just making it up"?

Do you have a convincing and comprehensive answer? Or is it all just random chance?


Sorry, XFool, but several posters have given various clear** reasons above. I don't think I can add much. Why do you discount what they say? Infrasonic in particular clearly has extensive experience in this topic and is IMO far more qualified than I to put your doubts to rest.


GS
(**maybe not comprehensive but jeez this is a bulletin board! DYOR!)

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Re: Scam calls - a new trick?

#452843

Postby ReformedCharacter » October 25th, 2021, 9:56 am

From today's DT, (paywalled):

Foreign fraudsters will be stopped from making hundreds of millions of scam phone calls under landmark plans to protect the British public. Major phone networks have agreed to automatically block calls made from abroad if they show up as a UK number, the Telegraph has learned. The unprecedented move comes after phone companies were criticised by the National Crime Agency for failing to tackle a huge rise in scam calls and texts over the past year. Many of the scam calls are made by foreign gangs using technology to make it appear as if the call is coming from within the UK. Others trick their victims out of thousands of pounds by ‘spoofing’ genuine numbers belonging to British banks. But after talks with Ofcom, the telecoms regulator, major networks have agreed to block nearly every call coming from abroad if it shows up with a UK Caller ID.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/10/24/exclusive-scam-calls-foreign-countries-blocked-landmark-plans/

RC

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Re: Scam calls - a new trick?

#452846

Postby XFool » October 25th, 2021, 10:07 am

GoSeigen wrote:
XFool wrote:It does seem to neatly evade the strange fact that, down the years, some people claim to be plagued by scam phone calls/emails that are "unavoidable", while some of us claim to be virtually free of these pests. Perhaps we are "just making it up"?

Do you have a convincing and comprehensive answer? Or is it all just random chance?

Sorry, XFool, but several posters have given various clear** reasons above. I don't think I can add much. Why do you discount what they say? Infrasonic in particular clearly has extensive experience in this topic and is IMO far more qualified than I to put your doubts to rest.

GS
(**maybe not comprehensive but jeez this is a bulletin board! DYOR!)

Well, leaving aside the patronising and the insults, Infrasonic said a few things things that could possibly point the way: Business use of emails and phone numbers

I pointed out that this context was rarely mentioned by those who complain of SPAM on theses boards - it might be significant. But then, if so, the answer to their problem should be simple: Change your number! (Unless still in business)

Voila! You too can be SPAM free, assuming the new number isn't an ex-business number. :)

So is that it, the 'answer' ? There are two classes of people/numbers: Business or ex-business phone numbers and email accounts. Non business users.
Former get SPAM, the latter don't?

If so, we've cracked the problem on this thread.

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Re: Scam calls - a new trick?

#453078

Postby GoSeigen » October 26th, 2021, 7:13 am

XFool wrote:
It does seem to neatly evade the strange fact that, down the years, some people claim to be plagued by scam phone calls/emails that are "unavoidable", while some of us claim to be virtually free of these pests. Perhaps we are "just making it up"?

Do you have a convincing and comprehensive answer? Or is it all just random chance?


OK, here's my quick list of reasons why an email address might get a lot of SPAM while others don't -- from my private and professional experience, not others' research:

-The hosting ISP has poor SPAM filtering or it is poorly configured by the user
-The address has been published online
-The address is vulnerable to dictionary attack (sales@domain.com, john@gmail.com)
-The address is on lists being circulated or sold, obtained from hacking, scraping or other means
-The address's owner was naive about SPAM: they replied to SPAM emails, tried clicking the unsubscribe link, failed to block inline images, left the preview function enabled in their email client etc
-The address is very old

I think the first point is a pretty big one. My ISP has excellent filtering and I have it configured tightly; without this I'd be deluged with SPAM on one or two of my addresses. Until fairly recently SPAM accounted for over 75% of all emails sent.

GS

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Re: Scam calls - a new trick?

#453106

Postby didds » October 26th, 2021, 9:19 am

GoSeigen wrote:I think the first point is a pretty big one. My ISP has excellent filtering and I have it configured tightly; without this I'd be deluged with SPAM on one or two of my addresses. Until fairly recently SPAM accounted for over 75% of all emails sent.

GS


in addition to GoSeigen's excellent list is add any domain that can be discovered by simple whois lookups and guesswork/sledgehammer tactics, or business domains that have almost be definition need to be advertised.

Quite some time ago now (15 years?) I used to run my own mail servers on my own domain for nerdiness and self education purposes. I was beseiged by huge amounts of spam. The options were to implement increasingly stringent anti-spam measures or move to using an existing provision with anti-spam measures. I'd run out of nerdy interest by now, so I just moved to a gmail account underlying my own domains. Job done - the spam dissapeared immediately, and even a webmail check shows very very little spam gets through.

didds

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Re: Scam calls - a new trick?

#453140

Postby UncleEbenezer » October 26th, 2021, 10:50 am

didds wrote:Quite some time ago now (15 years?) I used to run my own mail servers on my own domain for nerdiness and self education purposes. I was beseiged by huge amounts of spam. The options were to implement increasingly stringent anti-spam measures or move to using an existing provision with anti-spam measures. I'd run out of nerdy interest by now, so I just moved to a gmail account underlying my own domains. Job done - the spam dissapeared immediately, and even a webmail check shows very very little spam gets through.

didds

Yeah, but gmail has a history of overzealousness, with users losing significant amounts of legitimate email along with the spam.

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Re: Scam calls - a new trick?

#453150

Postby didds » October 26th, 2021, 11:04 am

true... but I just check the webmail folders every so often to look for such trapped mail.

personally its maybe one email a month that gets inadvertently caught

clearly OMMV

didds

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Re: Scam calls - a new trick?

#453188

Postby Infrasonic » October 26th, 2021, 12:22 pm

UncleEbenezer wrote:
didds wrote:Quite some time ago now (15 years?) I used to run my own mail servers on my own domain for nerdiness and self education purposes. I was beseiged by huge amounts of spam. The options were to implement increasingly stringent anti-spam measures or move to using an existing provision with anti-spam measures. I'd run out of nerdy interest by now, so I just moved to a gmail account underlying my own domains. Job done - the spam dissapeared immediately, and even a webmail check shows very very little spam gets through.

didds

Yeah, but gmail has a history of overzealousness, with users losing significant amounts of legitimate email along with the spam.


Often when I've checked the message source headers of email from legitimate sources that has ended up in spam folders there are issues with non compliance around ARC/SPF/DKIM and so the DMARC policy is binning it. The solution is for organisations to make sure they adhere strictly to the protocols. My main bank still sends out non compliant emails...

It's got to the stage now where successful spammers have more standards compliant email accounts than many legit sources do -
I've had real spam/phishing emails that passed everything in the authentication chain - because they are using authenticated environments to send from, namely the big email providers like Gmail/Outlook or AWS/Azure VPS for cloning/phishing and malware attacks.

And this is going to be the issue with attempts to prevent spoofed phone calls - it is only going to work if everyone legitimate sticks tightly to the rules - only then can they be implemented as intended. Otherwise a load of legitimate traffic will be rejected (as has happened when Gmail/Outlook.com have a spam purge and turn the filtering wick up blocking loads of third party email hosts SMTP IP addresses...).


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