The fastest computer I have owned

[Infrasonic]

Tha Amazon ones come with a pretty big screen, mouse, keyboard, software etc

100% Plug and pray.

Err. No. The Amazon PCs do not come with a screen, mouse or keyboard. All these PCs come with Windoze, but it should not be hard to install Linux on any of them. The Amazon and IT Zoo PCs come with a one year warranty. I do not know about the local guy. He seems to have been in business for many years, and has lots of PCs for sale. He offers a keyboard and mouse with his machines, but I have got plenty of those anyway.

Why would anyone waste their time installing Linux on an incredibly fast machine which has Windows 10 installed and which works immediately one plugs it in? ...
regards

Howard

Well depending on how tin foil hat you are one reason might be that seeing as how MS and others have been very good at fragmenting their increasing revenue pie to paid for options like Office 365 et al, they might want to extend that SaaS business model to the OS and apps going forward. So potentially monthly ongoing fees for everything.

It's quite simple to run Linux dual boot or in a W10 VM and get the best of both worlds.
If you have an Android phone (the most popular OS on the planet by far) then you're already using Linux, albeit a heavily forked proprietary version.
Likewise the majority of web servers are Linux these days, even if the apps running in containers on them aren't.

MS have made Linux part of W10 via developer friendly tools like bash.
It's a smart move, they know that one day Windows may not exist in its current form if it gets heavily Darwined, as Windows mobile (RIP) can attest to...https://www.google.com/search?q=windows ... e&ie=UTF-8

I use W10 most of the time, then Android and increasingly I'm getting up to speed with containerised Debian/LibreOffice on my Chrome OS (proprietary Linux fork again...) Chromebook.

[GeoffF100]

Err. No. The Amazon PCs do not come with a screen, mouse or keyboard

The 3 that I have purchased all did.

No doubt Amazon does supply complete systems too. Nonetheless, the PCs that we were talking about in this thread were all just processor boxes.

[GeoffF100]

Why would anyone waste their time installing Linux on an incredibly fast machine which has Windows 10 installed and which works immediately one plugs it in?

Some of us want our computer to behave how we want it to behave, and not how Microsoft wants it to behave. With Linux, you choose. With Windows, Microsoft chooses. Microsoft does not seem to care what their users want. Everyone else loads you with crapware if they can.

Some things are easier to do on Linux. Software development particularly. Linux is more secure than Windows. You can get most of what you want free from the app store. With Windows you have to download it, and woe betide you if you get it wrong.

[servodude]

Linux is more secure than Windows.

There are far fewer viruses targeted at Linux than Windows for sure!
But it is no more inherently secure than Windows

This perception of being secure becomes an issue when it gets used as an embedded OS
I've seen plenty of products running linux that are little more than a dev kit with an app installed and bound to a startup script. These end up in the hands of customers and installed with all the dev tools available to anyone that wants to have a play.

- sd

[GeoffF100]

There are far fewer viruses targeted at Linux than Windows for sure!
But it is no more inherently secure than Windows

This perception of being secure becomes an issue when it gets used as an embedded OS
I've seen plenty of products running linux that are little more than a dev kit with an app installed and bound to a startup script. These end up in the hands of customers and installed with all the dev tools available to anyone that wants to have a play.

- sd

Linux is inherently more secure because files cannot be executed unless they have execute permission. Also, as already noted, you can get most applications from the app store, where they are subject to scrutiny by the community. Linux also tends to get security updates faster than Windows or a Mac. Nonetheless, of course, Linux is not secure unless it is properly secured and receives a constant stream of security updates.

Native desktop Linux (i.e. excluding Android, IOS and Chromebooks) still has a small share of the market, and there are hundreds of different Linux distributions. Linux is a tougher nut to crack. Most Linux users are at least a little tech savvy. Most hackers are not even going to try.

[GeoffF100]

Even cheaper at £49.00 including postage:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HP-Compaq-Pr ... 100623.m-1

The processor has a Passmark score of 4248. That is more than 4x an entry level laptop and more than 2x my second machine. Faster would be better, but this has to be a bargain nonetheless. As noted previously, 4 GB is OK. Add a 120 GB SSD, and keep the 500 GB hard drive for downloads etc.

[Howard]

This thread has drifted into some other areas. I'm not complaining .

My original intention wasn't to find the cheapest computer, barely faster than the one I was replacing. And which needed the addition of new hard drives etc. Nor was I encouraging the addition of weird software that causes heartaches and a huge amount of time to sort out - see the Linux threads for this type of activity.

My aim was to suggest that it was possible for a modest price to get a really fast computer that worked within minutes of switching it on, ran the latest software and was suitable for most day to day tasks. With only two icons on the desktop and no bloatware.

Yes, there are cheaper machines, but not the same spec. And there are wonderful software add-ons which can complicate the life of an enthusiastic hobbyist.

Not to be controversial, but I suppose I was suggesting a sort of computer HYP solution . Purchase and leave alone for five or more years.

But it's not for everyone.

regards

Howard

[GeoffF100]

Linux is the most widely installed operating system in the world. It is hardly weird. My desktop looks like an old version of Windows. Lots of people only use a web browser and an office package anyway. People have problems with Windows too.

Someone has a job lot of the cheap HP PCs with the hard drives removed. I have bid £30 for one. They want £55, which does not look realistic. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. I do not need another PC, but at that price it would an attractive upgrade for my number 2 PC, which I can cannibalise. I would be a good educational exercise, if nothing else.

[PrincessB]

This is thread turning into the Four Yorkshiremen (IT) sketch..

Quite agree.

I've got a Dell Precision workstation with a Xeon E5 quad core. 8GB of memory (and space for an awful lot more) and it cost me no more than you'd pay for a bottle of single malt at Christmas.

And I'll tell thee another thing. It's got a proper version of Windows - Windows 7 no less, and all for less than the cost of an Uber to the nearest village.

None of that SSD stuff, proper old school spinning rust and none of that knowing how to set the BIOS up neither, my quad core was set up from the start with two cores disabled. Up North, we don't let a £2,000 workstation work flat out with all of that core nonsense, we turn it down and drink Tetley's tea while it completes the task at hand.

A proper engineer, looked at the memory sockets, and put the modules in wrong so as to not stress the machine or shorten our tea breaks. We know in these parts that the CPU is management and the memory is Workers, so the further apart we can keep them, the more harmonious the environment becomes.

We build it big and to last in these parts. That workstation would be the size of a suitcase and heavy enough to have some of the bigger airlines wanting to charge a tarrif. If you put it on one of those namby pamby little jet liners from some of those so called budget folk, I can't see the aircraft getting airborne.

{Being silly mode off} I hope I've not caused offence, it was meant to be taken in the same spirit as the orginal sketch.

Not entirely sure what to do with it actually. It's sat in the hall looking big and menacing and doing nothing better than getting in the way.

I bought it (it really did cost a bottle of single malt) following an article in the Guardian where someone wanted a PC suitable for a GCSE student to do some graphics work. The Guardians response was that on the second hand market, you can have a dual processor system with upwards of a 100GB of memory and an Nvidia Quadro graphics card for less than a new laptop.

They sort of mentioned that the power draw was around 1000watts, but as all Guardian readers have solar panels and the child would be in bed before sunset, that can be overlooked.

I like having to deal with first world problems.

B.

[GeoffF100]

Having the hard drive in the HP 4300 is not the advantage that I thought. There are only two SATA sockets on the motherboard:

http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c03448360

One for the DVD drive and the other for a hard drive or SSD. The video linked previously appears to be misleading. The HP documentation definitely looks good though. It might be worth offering more for a machine without a hard drive, but the response to my offer of £30 was £50, which does not look promising, if I can get a machine with a 500 GB hard drive for £49.

[GeoffF100]

I have ordered one of the £49 HP 4300 SFF PCs. I might of been able to save a couple of pounds by ordering one without a hard drive. Nonetheless, it occurred to me that the PC might have not been upgraded to Windows 10, which might give me problems. Although I intend to run Linux, it is useful to be able to run Windows too, particularly if I want to resell the machine.

I looked at upgrades. Another 4 GB RAM costs about £11. A used i5 from a reputable supplier costs about £25. Nonetheless, the machine should be fine without any upgrades (apart from an SSD, which I already have).

[GeoffF100]

The HP 4300 SFF Pc has arrived in good working order. The external case is spotless. It does not look as though it has been used, let alone knocked about in an office for 5 years. It badly needs an SSD, but I have one of those. I tried the ancient PS/2 keyboard and mouse from my old number 2 machine, but neither worked. I thought that PS/2 devices were guaranteed to work. No problems with a USB keyboard and mouse. I have got my old 1024x768 monitor with integrated power supply and speakers, set up, because that was the quickest way to get going. The hardware looks to be as expected. There is a Windows 7 sticker on the PC. I typed:

slmgr.vbs /dlv

onto the command line. I appear to have a retail version of Windows 10 Pro, and it appears to have been activated successfully. Perhaps the previous owner missed the boat for a free Windows 10 upgrade, did not know about Bree's trick (or did not want to use it), bought Windows 10 Pro, installed it, and then decided to chuck out the PC. I have not opened the box yet, but I appear to have a good buy.

[GeoffF100]

I have tested most things now. It is quick even with Windows, except when it is reading from the hard disk. I have opened the box. Everything is spotlessly clean inside too. It looks like a new machine. Only the Windows 7 sticker gives it away. It appears to be a great buy for £49. Everything is tightly packed into the Small Form Factor case. That would be very daunting if I did not have a tear down video and manuals.

My next project is to install an SSD, and install Windows 10 Pro on it, keeping the HD in reserve. I expect that Windows will pick up any drivers needed automatically. There is no HP or other bloatware installed on the HD, so I expect that what was was done previously. After that, I will try to boot Xubuntu.

[PrincessB]

Interesting points

I typed:

slmgr.vbs /dlv

onto the command line. I appear to have a retail version of Windows 10 Pro,

I tried it on my 2013 machine and mine reports

Windows 10.0.18362.657

Name: Windows (R) Core edition
Description: Windows (R) Operating System, RETAIL channel

It also says:

Remaining Windows rearm count: 1001.

Now I'm pretty sure that along the way, I must have bought a retail DVD for Windows 8 later did the free upgrade to Windows 10.

What puzzles me is whether as a Retail copy, I could retire the hardware on the machine I'm using, build a brand new machine and then move the retail licence across?

On my new old stock Dell, the same command reports OEM_DM channel, so I'm assuming that that version of Windows is locked to the motherboard and won't shift over.

Am I correct?

Regards,

B.

[GeoffF100]

The answer appears to be yes:

https://www.windowscentral.com/how-tran ... hard-drive

This machine appears to be a bargain and a half. My old Novatech also has a retail licence, so I appear to have two transferable Windows licences. The irony is that I like grappling with Linux.

This machine now boots so quickly and Edge loads so quickly that I wondered if I had a hybrid drive rather than an HD. No, it seems, I appear to have one of these:

http://www.pc-specs.com/storage/Hitachi ... _500GB/389

Nonetheless, I am sure that an SSD will make the machine more snappy.

[Breelander]

...Now I'm pretty sure that along the way, I must have bought a retail DVD for Windows 8 later did the free upgrade to Windows 10.

What puzzles me is whether as a Retail copy, I could retire the hardware on the machine I'm using, build a brand new machine and then move the retail licence across?

On my new old stock Dell, the same command reports OEM_DM channel, so I'm assuming that that version of Windows is locked to the motherboard and won't shift over.

Am I correct?

MS rather blurred the distinction between OEM and Full Retail installs when they gave the free W10 upgrade to W7/W8 machines. Regardless of whether the original install was an OEM one supplied with (and locked to) the PC or a Full Retail one installed with a key, after the upgrade to W10 slmgr/dlv will always say 'RETAIL channel' and the installed key will be the generic one for that edition, ---8HVX7 for Home or ---3V66T for Pro.

Now whether you are entitled to move it to another machine, or whether it may be possible to move it but a violation of the original OEM EULA, I don't know. If you have a Full Retail W8 DVD and it's key, then that certainly should be within the terms of the EULA to move it, provided it (or the W10 it was upgraded to) is first removed from the original machine.



Oh, and for 'Core' read 'Home'.

[GeoffF100]

Thank you very much for that Bree. I was hoping that you would clarify matters. On my new ex-W7 machine, the Partial Product Key is indeed 3V66T.

My Novatech machine shipped with what I believe to be a full retail version of W8, just before the launch of W10. It did not have a product key label. I updated to W10 when it arrived. The Partial Product Key shows as 8HVX7. Am I right in thinking that I should be able to move that licence to another machine?

[Breelander]

My Novatech machine shipped with what I believe to be a full retail version of W8, just before the launch of W10. It did not have a product key label.

No, the CoA label with a product key ended with Windows 7. Actually, that CoA key was never used, rather the OEM Windows 7 was installed with a generic key specific to each particular OEM. If there was a corresponding SLP marker in the bios then the Windows 7 would self-activate. That was how a factory reset image could activate without needing to contact the activation servers. The CoA key was as a backup for emergencies, a second key that could be used for a clean install should the factory image or OEM recovery DVD be lost.

For machine built for and supplied with OEM Windows 8/8.1/10 a full OEM key is embedded in the bios. Being an OEM key, and having been used to activate the original W8 it would now be tied to the machine and not transferable. You can read any embedded keys or markers with ShowKeyPlus which will tell you if they are Full Retail or OEM.

If it really was a Full Retail W8, then there would be no OEM key in the bios and you should have been supplied with the key separately. That would be transferable. My guess though is that you'll find it was an OEM install.

[GeoffF100]

Thanks for that Bree. I expect it was an OEM licence. It was only the price that made me think it was a retail licence. I remember ringing Novatech and asking about a product key and they told me that I did not need one. I did not know about the differnet types of Windows licence in those days. I just been looking a CCL and they are charging lots of dosh to install an OEM version of W10. It would have make sense to buy a retail version and install it yourself. Nonetheless, a transferable Windows licence would not be of much use to me anyway. It is much cheaper to buy a used machine, which almost inevitably comes with Windows, than it is to build one yourself.

[GeoffF100]

Success!

I successfully created an up to date Windows 10 ISO DVD using the Media Tool. It booted on the Novatech and the HP. On the HP, I hit <Esc> repeatedly on boot, selected the Boot Menu and then selected hp CDDVDW SH-216AB. I then had to hit any key to confirm the DVD boot, and away it went.

I followed tradition and ignored the instructions. Ubuntu is supposed to secure boot nowadays, so I gave it a go. I put a Xubuntu ISO in the HP's DVD drive and did the same as before, selecting hp CDDVDW SH-216AB as the boot device. I was rewarded with Try Xubuntu. I was able to run Xubuntu from a live DVD with no problems.

The installation hurdle appears to have been surmounted. The next step is to recover the SSD from my old machine and install it in the HP.