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Why Linux?

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swill453
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Re: Why Linux?

#320883

Postby swill453 » June 23rd, 2020, 8:17 pm

GeoffF100 wrote:My SSD is /dev/sda1. The other file systems are in RAM. Used + Avail is not equal to Size. Here is the explanation:

https://unix.stackexchange.com/question ... able-space

"By default, ext2, ext3 and ext4 filesystems reserve 5% of their capacity for use by the root user. This reduces fragmentation, and makes it less likely that the root user or any root-owned daemons will run out of disk space to perform important operations."

It was always 10% back in the day (BSD, SunOs, Solaris etc.). Could modify it with tunefs though.

Scott.

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Re: Why Linux?

#325126

Postby Snorvey » July 10th, 2020, 11:30 am

My little computer has now notified me that the latest version of Mint (v20 'Ulyana') is now available. Of course, updating is a bit more involved with Linux than Windows (despite the button saying 'upgrade to Linux Mint 20 Ulyana' suggesting it as nothing more than a fire and come back in an hour or two - its not!)

Plus....I've read one or 2 things about Ulyana not being quite right. As my current version is working extremely well (they even seem to have solved my speaker start up problem with a recent update). So that being the case, I'm inclined to leave well alone....

I do have the other laptop however, so the next rainy day might see that getting an upgrade.

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Re: Why Linux?

#325159

Postby GeoffF100 » July 10th, 2020, 1:21 pm

Snorvey wrote:My little computer has now notified me that the latest version of Mint (v20 'Ulyana') is now available. Of course, updating is a bit more involved with Linux than Windows (despite the button saying 'upgrade to Linux Mint 20 Ulyana' suggesting it as nothing more than a fire and come back in an hour or two - its not!)

Plus....I've read one or 2 things about Ulyana not being quite right. As my current version is working extremely well (they even seem to have solved my speaker start up problem with a recent update). So that being the case, I'm inclined to leave well alone....

I do have the other laptop however, so the next rainy day might see that getting an upgrade.

The release notes did not suggest any problems that worried me. My Windows 10 machine is sluggish compared with my lower spec machine running Lubuntu 20.04. That is partly because I have got data on a hard drive on the Windows 10 machine. I am tempted to install Mint 20 Xfce in place of Windows 10, and put my home directory on the SSD. I could use the hard drive for snapshots and downloads. It would be interesting to compare Mint with Lubuntu.

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Re: Why Linux?

#325359

Postby cinelli » July 11th, 2020, 10:37 am

Snorvey wrote:My little computer has now notified me that the latest version of Mint (v20 'Ulyana') is now available.

I would list reasons for upgrading as follows:

1. You are nearing the end of the support date.
2. Something doesn't work in your current version and this has been fixed in the new release.
3. You enjoy tinkering and doing the upgrade will enhance your knowledge.

(1) I myself am running linux Mint 18.3 cinnamon and this is supported until April 2021. I also have Mint 19.3 running on a memory stick and this is supported until April 2023. No urgency at all to upgrade. (2) I have found that the command img2pdf doesn't work for bitmap files in 18.3 but it does in 19.3 so it is convenient to have an alternative version available. (3) I think most people here are like this.

There is informed comment about Mint 20 by YouTuber Joe Collins:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_mxhbt1Rxk&t=632s

He gets into the politics of linux. For version 20 chromium is no longer available in the repositories - it is a flat pack. If this is a concern, it might put you off doing the upgrade.

Cinelli

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Re: Why Linux?

#325372

Postby GeoffF100 » July 11th, 2020, 12:22 pm

cinelli wrote:
Snorvey wrote:My little computer has now notified me that the latest version of Mint (v20 'Ulyana') is now available.

I would list reasons for upgrading as follows:

1. You are nearing the end of the support date.
2. Something doesn't work in your current version and this has been fixed in the new release.
3. You enjoy tinkering and doing the upgrade will enhance your knowledge.

(1) I myself am running linux Mint 18.3 cinnamon and this is supported until April 2021. I also have Mint 19.3 running on a memory stick and this is supported until April 2023. No urgency at all to upgrade. (2) I have found that the command img2pdf doesn't work for bitmap files in 18.3 but it does in 19.3 so it is convenient to have an alternative version available. (3) I think most people here are like this.

There is informed comment about Mint 20 by YouTuber Joe Collins:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_mxhbt1Rxk&t=632s

He gets into the politics of linux. For version 20 chromium is no longer available in the repositories - it is a flat pack. If this is a concern, it might put you off doing the upgrade.

Cinelli

Joe Collins had problems installing the Cinnamon version in a virtual machine. He said it was OK on real hardware, He does not appear to have tried the Xfce version.

You can install Chromium in the same way as Ubuntu by installing the snap store:

https://linuxmint-user-guide.readthedoc ... omium.html

apt install snapd
sudo snap install chromium


That does not appear to be too much of an issue to me.

I am using Google Chrome on Lubuntu 20.04. As they say in the link, it is very easy to install Chrome, and I have found it to be much faster than Firefox. Chromium is in the Discover app store on Lubuntu 20.04.

Lubuntu 20.04 has got a lot of flack. I was half inclined to believe it until I saw hiriskpaul's post earlier in the thread. The flack is not really justified. Yes, the 32 bit version has gone, and it is a little bigger but the competition seems to have put on even more weight. The default desktop is horrible, and there are some other default settings that I do not like, but that is easily fixed. Lubuntu 20.04 is fast and trouble free (provided that you use the GTK3 graphics package rather than Qt5 with LibreOffice).

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Re: Why Linux?

#325374

Postby kiloran » July 11th, 2020, 12:32 pm

GeoffF100 wrote:
cinelli wrote:
Snorvey wrote:My little computer has now notified me that the latest version of Mint (v20 'Ulyana') is now available.

I would list reasons for upgrading as follows:

1. You are nearing the end of the support date.
2. Something doesn't work in your current version and this has been fixed in the new release.
3. You enjoy tinkering and doing the upgrade will enhance your knowledge.

(1) I myself am running linux Mint 18.3 cinnamon and this is supported until April 2021. I also have Mint 19.3 running on a memory stick and this is supported until April 2023. No urgency at all to upgrade. (2) I have found that the command img2pdf doesn't work for bitmap files in 18.3 but it does in 19.3 so it is convenient to have an alternative version available. (3) I think most people here are like this.

There is informed comment about Mint 20 by YouTuber Joe Collins:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_mxhbt1Rxk&t=632s

He gets into the politics of linux. For version 20 chromium is no longer available in the repositories - it is a flat pack. If this is a concern, it might put you off doing the upgrade.

Cinelli

Joe Collins had problems installing the Cinnamon version in a virtual machine. He said it was OK on real hardware, He does not appear to have tried the Xfce version.

You can install Chromium in the same way as Ubuntu by installing the snap store:

https://linuxmint-user-guide.readthedoc ... omium.html

apt install snapd
sudo snap install chromium


That does not appear to be too much of an issue to me.

I am using Google Chrome on Lubuntu 20.04. As they say in the link, it is very easy to install Chrome, and I have found it to be much faster than Firefox. Chromium is in the Discover app store on Lubuntu 20.04.

Lubuntu 20.04 has got a lot of flack. I was half inclined to believe it until I saw hiriskpaul's post earlier in the thread. The flack is not really justified. Yes, the 32 bit version has gone, and it is a little bigger but the competition seems to have put on even more weight. The default desktop is horrible, and there are some other default settings that I do not like, but that is easily fixed. Lubuntu 20.04 is fast and trouble free (provided that you use the GTK3 graphics package rather than Qt5 with LibreOffice).

I installed Linux Mint 20 Cinnamon on a VirtualBox VM the other day and it works fine so far. I just downloaded Chrome from the Google download site: https://www.google.com/chrome/

Didn't need Snap (whatever that is.... must investigate)

--kiloran

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Re: Why Linux?

#325428

Postby GeoffF100 » July 11th, 2020, 5:00 pm

kiloran wrote:
GeoffF100 wrote:
cinelli wrote:I would list reasons for upgrading as follows:

1. You are nearing the end of the support date.
2. Something doesn't work in your current version and this has been fixed in the new release.
3. You enjoy tinkering and doing the upgrade will enhance your knowledge.

(1) I myself am running linux Mint 18.3 cinnamon and this is supported until April 2021. I also have Mint 19.3 running on a memory stick and this is supported until April 2023. No urgency at all to upgrade. (2) I have found that the command img2pdf doesn't work for bitmap files in 18.3 but it does in 19.3 so it is convenient to have an alternative version available. (3) I think most people here are like this.

There is informed comment about Mint 20 by YouTuber Joe Collins:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_mxhbt1Rxk&t=632s

He gets into the politics of linux. For version 20 chromium is no longer available in the repositories - it is a flat pack. If this is a concern, it might put you off doing the upgrade.

Cinelli

Joe Collins had problems installing the Cinnamon version in a virtual machine. He said it was OK on real hardware, He does not appear to have tried the Xfce version.

You can install Chromium in the same way as Ubuntu by installing the snap store:

https://linuxmint-user-guide.readthedoc ... omium.html

apt install snapd
sudo snap install chromium


That does not appear to be too much of an issue to me.

I am using Google Chrome on Lubuntu 20.04. As they say in the link, it is very easy to install Chrome, and I have found it to be much faster than Firefox. Chromium is in the Discover app store on Lubuntu 20.04.

Lubuntu 20.04 has got a lot of flack. I was half inclined to believe it until I saw hiriskpaul's post earlier in the thread. The flack is not really justified. Yes, the 32 bit version has gone, and it is a little bigger but the competition seems to have put on even more weight. The default desktop is horrible, and there are some other default settings that I do not like, but that is easily fixed. Lubuntu 20.04 is fast and trouble free (provided that you use the GTK3 graphics package rather than Qt5 with LibreOffice).

I installed Linux Mint 20 Cinnamon on a VirtualBox VM the other day and it works fine so far. I just downloaded Chrome from the Google download site: https://www.google.com/chrome/

Didn't need Snap (whatever that is.... must investigate)

--kiloran

You do not need Snap for Google Chrome, but you do need it for open source version Chromium (unless you install it some other way). Snap and Flatpack encapsulate all the packages that the application uses. Normally, these are shared with other applications on Linux. With Snap and Flatpack it is possible to update the dependencies without causing trouble elsewhere. That convenience comes at a cost, of course.

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Re: Why Linux?

#325520

Postby hiriskpaul » July 11th, 2020, 11:06 pm

I recently bought a raspberry pi 4 (4GB version) and am hugely impressed. Very quick for browsing, etc. I do not have a micro HDMI cable, but found it very straightforward to set up headless and access through ssh and VNC. I have not bought a case or heatsink for the board, as I thought I would see if either were necessary first. I have read a lot about reports of overheating/throttling, but also that some of the issues have been fixed with firmware updates. I tried out the sysbench test used on explainingcomputers.com and found that the CPU temperature plateaued at 76C after about 15 minutes, with no sign of throttling. Room temperature was 20C. I have read that placing the board on its side improves ventilation and this seemed to work, with temperature maxing out at 72C. So for anyone wanting to buy one of these, I would advise holding off on the heatsink until you are sure your use case demands it.

For anyone wanting to do something very CPU intensive for an extended period, a raspberry pi is probably not the optimal choice anyway. The sysbench test runs in 63s using all 4 cores. My i3 desktop runs the exact same test, using the same version of sysbench through WSL, in 9 seconds!

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Re: Why Linux?

#325531

Postby ReformedCharacter » July 12th, 2020, 12:29 am

hiriskpaul wrote:I recently bought a raspberry pi 4 (4GB version) and am hugely impressed. Very quick for browsing, etc. I do not have a micro HDMI cable, but found it very straightforward to set up headless and access through ssh and VNC. I have not bought a case or heatsink for the board, as I thought I would see if either were necessary first. I have read a lot about reports of overheating/throttling, but also that some of the issues have been fixed with firmware updates. I tried out the sysbench test used on explainingcomputers.com and found that the CPU temperature plateaued at 76C after about 15 minutes, with no sign of throttling. Room temperature was 20C. I have read that placing the board on its side improves ventilation and this seemed to work, with temperature maxing out at 72C. So for anyone wanting to buy one of these, I would advise holding off on the heatsink until you are sure your use case demands it.

For anyone wanting to do something very CPU intensive for an extended period, a raspberry pi is probably not the optimal choice anyway. The sysbench test runs in 63s using all 4 cores. My i3 desktop runs the exact same test, using the same version of sysbench through WSL, in 9 seconds!

That's a coincidence, my pi 4 (4GB) arrived yesterday and I fitted a £2 heat sink set. It replaced a model B rev 2. from 2014. Also running headless and impressed with the performance. No case for me either but I fitted some spacers to keep it 10mm clear underneath.

RC

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Re: Why Linux?

#327262

Postby Snorvey » July 19th, 2020, 1:24 pm

I have now successfully upgraded to Linux Mint 20 'Ulyana'.

It's...errrrr......exactly the same as before. Well, it looks that way to me at least.

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Re: Why Linux?

#327275

Postby Snorvey » July 19th, 2020, 2:23 pm

*Update*

.....it might look the same, but it's stonkingly fast.

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Re: Why Linux?

#327342

Postby 1nvest » July 19th, 2020, 7:13 pm

hiriskpaul wrote:I recently bought a raspberry pi 4 (4GB version) and am hugely impressed. Very quick for browsing, etc. I do not have a micro HDMI cable, but found it very straightforward to set up headless and access through ssh and VNC. I have not bought a case or heatsink for the board, as I thought I would see if either were necessary first. I have read a lot about reports of overheating/throttling, but also that some of the issues have been fixed with firmware updates. I tried out the sysbench test used on explainingcomputers.com and found that the CPU temperature plateaued at 76C after about 15 minutes, with no sign of throttling. Room temperature was 20C. I have read that placing the board on its side improves ventilation and this seemed to work, with temperature maxing out at 72C. So for anyone wanting to buy one of these, I would advise holding off on the heatsink until you are sure your use case demands it.

Never had one, but tempted to get one just as a low powered always on headless web/file server. Looks like turning ssh on is as easy as creating a empty file called 'ssh' in the root folder and then accessing your router to find its IP address - but is that open ssh i.e. no userid/password initially being required for ssh access?

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Re: Why Linux?

#327345

Postby ReformedCharacter » July 19th, 2020, 7:24 pm

1nvest wrote:Never had one, but tempted to get one just as a low powered always on headless web/file server. Looks like turning ssh on is as easy as creating a empty file called 'ssh' in the root folder and then accessing your router to find its IP address - but is that open ssh i.e. no userid/password initially being required for ssh access?

https://itsfoss.com/ssh-into-raspberry/

RC

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Re: Why Linux?

#327355

Postby hiriskpaul » July 19th, 2020, 8:58 pm

ReformedCharacter wrote:
1nvest wrote:Never had one, but tempted to get one just as a low powered always on headless web/file server. Looks like turning ssh on is as easy as creating a empty file called 'ssh' in the root folder and then accessing your router to find its IP address - but is that open ssh i.e. no userid/password initially being required for ssh access?

https://itsfoss.com/ssh-into-raspberry/

RC

I put the empty ssh file in place on the sd card, put it in the pi, plugged in an ethernet cable, booted up, did a ssh raspberrypi, which connected straight in. No need to mess around trying to find the IP address. Had to login with default user and password.

After configuring vnc you could disable ssh again if you don't want it, or configure keys each end if you want so you don't have to keep entering the password.

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Re: Why Linux?

#327365

Postby 1nvest » July 19th, 2020, 10:11 pm

hiriskpaul wrote:I put the empty ssh file in place on the sd card, put it in the pi, plugged in an ethernet cable, booted up, did a ssh raspberrypi, which connected straight in. No need to mess around trying to find the IP address. Had to login with default user and password.

After configuring vnc you could disable ssh again if you don't want it, or configure keys each end if you want so you don't have to keep entering the password.

Thanks. I'm a bit of a cli junky, use it still for calcurse (store my calendar in encrypted form on hashbang), htop, mc, irc (weechat), mutt (email) and sshfs mounting (so I just open a file manager on my laptop and the remote filesystem appears as just another folder that I can drag/drop into/from). I use a liveboot (gui) system on my laptop, so once configured no changes are stored across reboots, stays the exact same (so any nasties would get purged by a simple reboot). Data/files stored separately. As part of that I store all bookmarks in a text file and have tilda (that supports clickable links) terminal slide down/hide via a F1 keypress with its tmux sessions and where one links into hashbang where another tmux is also running. Nice being able to tmux detach and later reattach again whilst everything has continued running in the background.

The laptop I'm using has a slow spin up HDD, was gifted it as Windows was unusable, but as I run with everything in ram (Fatdog linux multisession style) that's not a issue. At least not until it comes to opening files that I store on the HDD. Most of my laptop is for google and libreoffice along with music/video playing, where if it were ever lost or stolen is pretty much a non-issue data/security wise.

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Re: Why Linux?

#327376

Postby hiriskpaul » July 19th, 2020, 11:31 pm

1nvest wrote:
hiriskpaul wrote:I put the empty ssh file in place on the sd card, put it in the pi, plugged in an ethernet cable, booted up, did a ssh raspberrypi, which connected straight in. No need to mess around trying to find the IP address. Had to login with default user and password.

After configuring vnc you could disable ssh again if you don't want it, or configure keys each end if you want so you don't have to keep entering the password.

Thanks. I'm a bit of a cli junky, use it still for calcurse (store my calendar in encrypted form on hashbang), htop, mc, irc (weechat), mutt (email) and sshfs mounting (so I just open a file manager on my laptop and the remote filesystem appears as just another folder that I can drag/drop into/from). I use a liveboot (gui) system on my laptop, so once configured no changes are stored across reboots, stays the exact same (so any nasties would get purged by a simple reboot). Data/files stored separately. As part of that I store all bookmarks in a text file and have tilda (that supports clickable links) terminal slide down/hide via a F1 keypress with its tmux sessions and where one links into hashbang where another tmux is also running. Nice being able to tmux detach and later reattach again whilst everything has continued running in the background.

The laptop I'm using has a slow spin up HDD, was gifted it as Windows was unusable, but as I run with everything in ram (Fatdog linux multisession style) that's not a issue. At least not until it comes to opening files that I store on the HDD. Most of my laptop is for google and libreoffice along with music/video playing, where if it were ever lost or stolen is pretty much a non-issue data/security wise.

In that case you might as well leave ssh in place, but set up keys at each end. You can then control the rpi from scripts that contain ssh commands to the rpi.

I understand that USB drive booting is now official, so you might prefer the reliability of that over sd cards. 128GB SSDs can be bought for under £20 now. You can also run Docker on the rpi, which you might prefer in order to better contain your Web server. Not as efficient, but doubt you would notice unless running loads of stuff on the rpi.

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Re: Why Linux?

#327380

Postby ReformedCharacter » July 20th, 2020, 12:16 am

1nvest wrote:Thanks. I'm a bit of a cli junky, use it still for calcurse (store my calendar in encrypted form on hashbang), htop, mc, irc (weechat), mutt (email) and sshfs mounting (so I just open a file manager on my laptop and the remote filesystem appears as just another folder that I can drag/drop into/from). I use a liveboot (gui) system on my laptop, so once configured no changes are stored across reboots, stays the exact same (so any nasties would get purged by a simple reboot). Data/files stored separately. As part of that I store all bookmarks in a text file and have tilda (that supports clickable links) terminal slide down/hide via a F1 keypress with its tmux sessions and where one links into hashbang where another tmux is also running. Nice being able to tmux detach and later reattach again whilst everything has continued running in the background.

The laptop I'm using has a slow spin up HDD, was gifted it as Windows was unusable, but as I run with everything in ram (Fatdog linux multisession style) that's not a issue. At least not until it comes to opening files that I store on the HDD. Most of my laptop is for google and libreoffice along with music/video playing, where if it were ever lost or stolen is pretty much a non-issue data/security wise.

Very interesting! Just looked up tmux, I think I'll have to look into that.

RC

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Re: Why Linux?

#327384

Postby 1nvest » July 20th, 2020, 3:08 am

If you run a local tmux and remote tmux then you pretty much have to redefine the control keys so that they don't conflict. On hashbang I've set it to be the backtick (below the escape key) - which means that if I want to actually type a backtick I have to press it twice in quick succession. Not used that much as a character other than as execute quotes in shell scripts.

mc is great .. you can even create different user menus in different folders. My main one (when I press F2) looks like ...
Image
So F1 to drop down tilda (that terminal screen), F2 in mc to show the menu and I've set P to poweroff, R to reboot ...etc. Three quick succession keystrokes to initiate (highly configurable) actions.

Good to set separate mc themes on different boxes. Otherwise for instance if I'm running mc on hashbang as well as locally in different tmux panes then you can lose track of where you are.

With tmux some like to zoom/unzoom panes, a form of windows where you can see many on a single screen and flip between them and then full screen zoom/unzoom the window/pane, personally I prefer to just flip between full windows rather than using panes. So in my case backtick 1, 2, 3 or whatever window I want to switch to. For instance whilst viewing irc backtick 2 would switch to email
Image
Hashbang has been continually up for 35 days as per that image, its usually over 100 days before they do reboot - which can be a little annoying as all of the things you'd left running such as irc then have to be restarted/logged into again. But otherwise you can (in my backtick as the control key setup) backtick d to disconnect, and then later reattach again from the same or different devices, even your mobile and carry on from where you'd left.

I have tilda set to open up down to the taskbar, so that's still visible. Or F1 to hide tilda and reveal the usual desktop/icons. So all text and gui on the same single desktop, rather than using ctrl-alt-F2 ... or whatever to flip between different desktop sessions.

htop for process/processor monitoring is another nice cli tool
Image
That 128 processor getting on for 1TB of ram ... isn't my laptop before you ask. Probably will have to wait until 2030 or so before that is the case :)

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Re: Why Linux?

#328479

Postby Infrasonic » July 24th, 2020, 3:52 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aJ9U5t9oD4

Doesn't open-source just make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside? Today Anthony takes a look at System76's Oryx Pro laptop.

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Re: Why Linux?

#328940

Postby PitBullCH » July 27th, 2020, 12:14 pm

For users that like the Windows look, Zorin OS is a very nice Linix distro; and for Mac lovers, Elementary OS is the usual recommendation.

Otherwise Mint or Ubuntu are solid choices.


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