Any reason not to use MS one drive to backup?

[langley59]

After much deliberation over this following a corrupted hard drive earlier this year I back up my files to a USB drive every evening. Every month end I also back them up to One Drive manually. So I have a daily onsite backup with monthly offsite backup. There is no synching of One Drive with my PC. I live with the risk that my One Drive files could be accessed but there is no security information on there.

[Infrasonic]

Other options with cloud include automating 'backups' between cloud services using things like IFTTT, Microsoft Flow, Zapier et al.
One thing you have to watch out for with IFTTT is they can break if the API's get changed by the big players like MS + Google.
I've slowly gone off IFTTT for that reason, it's a bit of a lottery.

One of the advantages is you aren't usuing your own local CPU or network bandwidth then for what are essentially background tasks.
With the free services don't expect much in the way of bandwidth allowance at the cloud end though (it's fine for low volume, small office docs), you'll have to go to paid for business class to get anything wizzy.

[mc2fool]

Backup is preserving your data as at a given point in time.

And I consider syncing as a continually running backup, preserving my data as at a given point in time, being now.

I have a household subscription to Office 365 which includes 1TB one drive per person. Is there any reason that I shouldn't have my hard drive automatically back up to it?

Your whole hard drive? If that is indeed what you mean, can that be done with One Drive? And how is it going to work when you want to restore the whole drive? E.g. after replacing a drive that's broken due to the PC being dropped.

I suggest you consider what you want to protect against and hence what you want to backup and how. Here's what I do on both my laptop and desktop (both Window 10):

a) I do system image (i.e. whole drive) backups to a NAS drive on my LAN using Macrium Reflect. These happen automatically with scheduled weekly full and daily differentials backups. If the computer is off or in standby at the scheduled time then the backup simply happens when it's rebooted or brought out of standby. If the laptop is elsewhere and can't connect to the NAS drive then the backup attempt simply fails and I either do nothing and just let it do the next automatic backup when it can or, having brought the laptop back onto my LAN, I click "Run Now" to kick off the backup manually.

The main purpose of the system image backups is convenience in case of disaster. E.g. if my hard drive goes belly up and I need to get a new one and I didn't have the system image backup, then I'd have to install Windows, install all the software I use, setup all the settings and configurations for Windows and software, restore my personal files, etc, all of which would be a major faff and take yonks. Whereas with the system image backup I'd just restore that and be pretty much back to the state I was beforehand.

b) I keep all of my personal files in cloud synced folders. I use Google Drive for non-sensitive stuff and https://www.sync.com/ for stuff I want to keep secure. Sync.com offers zero knowledge end-to-end encryption synced storage (5Gb for free). Both Google Drive and Sync.com have file versioning and deleted file recovery, so you can roll/get back files if needed.

The main purpose of the cloud synced folders is to provide instant (well, more or less!) backups of my personal files, which are off-site so I'll still have them if my house (and computers and NAS drive) burn down, and as they're automatically synced between my desktop and laptop it means I can work on either without having to move files I want to work on in advance. That also means that at any point there are three copies of everything, desktop, laptop and cloud, so in effect extra backup. (For the same reasons I also use IMAP email services.)

c) I've also set up File History for important folders on both desktop and laptop to a USB drive attached to my router, on a you-can't-have-too-many-backups basis.

[AF62]

But how do you all cope with a laptop that is movable and not always connected?

Use the OneDrive folders as the document storage location and it will just update the cloud part of OneDrive when it is connected.

[swill453]

And I consider syncing as a continually running backup, preserving my data as at a given point in time, being now.

But if right now you delete the wrong folder (for example) then now your "backup" ain't worth zip.

(Yes I know you've got that situation covered in other ways.)

Scott.

[Itsallaguess]

But how do you all cope with a laptop that is movable and not always connected?

I'm surprised that no-one has asked about the possibility of a second drive in your laptop Clariman, for this sort of thing.

Has it got a DVD-slot?

If it has, and you find that you don't use it, then you can often swap out the DVD caddy for a hard-drive caddy, which would give you an on-board solution to backing up your main hard drive.

If it has got a DVD-slot, and you do use it every now and again (I can't remember the last time I touched a CD or DVD for data-related tasks...), then it might be worth thinking about getting an external DVD-drive for those odd times, and thinking about a hard-drive caddy to help with back-up tasks..

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[AF62]

And I consider syncing as a continually running backup, preserving my data as at a given point in time, being now.

But if right now you delete the wrong folder (for example) then now your "backup" ain't worth zip.

Not sure what you mean as with OneDrive they you just restore the deleted folders.

[mc2fool]

And I consider syncing as a continually running backup, preserving my data as at a given point in time, being now.

But if right now you delete the wrong folder (for example) then now your "backup" ain't worth zip.

No, I just go into Google Drive / Sync.com and restore the deleted folder. As I said, they both have versioning and deleted file recovery.

[UncleEbenezer]

Syncing your data to a cloud service isn't backup. It's storing it somewhere else.

Why isn't that the same thing?

Backup is preserving your data as at a given point in time.

Syncing doesn't do that. It continually updates every change your computer makes. Even the ones you don't want.

IMHO cloud services like OneDrive are useful. But it isn't really backup

One might suggest that syncing is actually better than backup. Backup being a substitute for syncing, from an era when syncing was not technically feasible.

Caveats of course. If you want history / point-in-time snapshots, put the data in question under version control. But that's orthogonal to trad. backup, where the point in time exists only because it had to, not because anyone wanted it.

[Clariman]

One question about syncing to something like OneDrive. If I accidentally deleted a folder, presumably that would also be deleted from OneDrive as part of the syncing process?

[ReformedCharacter]

So if I copy a set of files from one SSD to another, am I backing up or am I syncing?

You're backing your files up. If you then change the source files and copy them again then you're syncing.

RC

[mc2fool]

One question about syncing to something like OneDrive. If I accidentally deleted a folder, presumably that would also be deleted from OneDrive as part of the syncing process?

Yes, but you can restore it from the recycle bin. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/off ... 9083e6a84f

And, it seems, if you really mess things up you can restore your whole OneDrive to a previous point. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/off ... ac53eb8a15

[swill453]

One question about syncing to something like OneDrive. If I accidentally deleted a folder, presumably that would also be deleted from OneDrive as part of the syncing process?

Yes, though it may still be recoverable from OneDrive's version history. (Though I know nothing at all about OneDrive's version history.)

Scott.

[scrumpyjack]

Onedrive stores things in its recycle bin for at least 3 days and usually 30 days

[stewamax]

It depends on what you expect to do with your backup!

If you want automatically synched copies of updates to (e.g.) your Windows Documents folder, OneDrive, Dropbox et al are fine.

But if you want to be able to restore quickly from a disk failure or virus attack, buy a couple of external disks (used in rotation) and stored in a small fireproof media chest (much more fireproof than the usual document chest) which in turn is ideally across a firebreak from your PC. And take these 'full' backups using Acronis TI, Macrium Reflect or EasyUS Todo.

You can of course use both solutions - as I do.
For disaster/recovery I avoid incremental backups as one failure in the chain renders the entire backup void.

[mc2fool]

If you want automatically synched copies of updates to (e.g.) your Windows Documents folder, OneDrive, Dropbox et al are fine.

Well, not just syncing. It also provides automatic and instant(ish) off site backups of your personal files.

But if you want to be able to restore quickly from a disk failure or virus attack, buy a couple of external disks (used in rotation) and stored in a small fireproof media chest (much more fireproof than the usual document chest) which in turn is ideally across a firebreak from your PC. And take these 'full' backups using Acronis TI, Macrium Reflect or EasyUS Todo.

Yes, I agree that's indeed a good approach. But for some (I suspect, many) people (inc. me ) the problem with it is that it requires you to do something.

As I said earlier, I do system image backups to a NAS drive on my LAN, and do so for much the same reason as you, to be able to easily restore in case of disaster, and the big advantage of that (for me) is that I don't have to do anything, the backups are automatic.

The disadvantage, of course, is that if the house burns down the NAS goes with it, but I figure that in that case I'd have bigger problems than getting back systems exactly as before, and indeed, probably couldn't do so anyway 'cos I'd almost certainly have to buy new PCs and restoring system images from the previous kit might well run into driver and/or licensing issues.

But either way, I'd still have my personal data, which is the really irreplaceable stuff, stashed in the cloud sync storage (which, 'cos of versioning, also protects it against ransomware).

So, really, one can have all sorts of discussions about what's "best" but in the end that has to include what works for the individual. Yours obviously works for you but wouldn't work for me 'cos the requirement to do something would result in it just not happening a good part of the time.

For disaster/recovery I avoid incremental backups as one failure in the chain renders the entire backup void.

Ummm ... which software are you talking about? Surely in that case you just restore up to but not including the duff incremental?

[Infrasonic]

For anyone reading the thread who wants some clarification on certain terms used in backup procedures, here's a good blog post from Macrium.

https://blog.macrium.com/incremental-vs ... 13b093b56a

There are a number of different types of backup — that can be confusing, especially if you’re new to the backup software world. However, if you’re wondering what the difference is between an incremental backup and a differential backup, and stuck on why and how a full backup fits into all this, this short guide to the different ways you can approach backup will help you to make an informed decision about which solution will best suit your needs.

Cont.

[Clariman]

Thanks for your help so far. Here is what I think my requirements and options are. Please comment ...

Requirements

• To copy files to an easily accessible storage location, to prevent data loss
• To automate the process with daily backups (or every few days)
• Having access to critical files in an off-site storage (cloud)
• Be protected from ransomware attacks
• I'm not too bothered about creating a System Image because I can rebuild the systems myself using recovery USB (although this does take time).
• I'm not bothered about incremental backups, but would use them if a full daily backup was impractical e.g. for performance reasons.

The storage options I have available to me now are;

• OneDrive - 1TB cloud storage
• External Seagate Drive - 1TB
• NAS Drive - 2TB - only used for SONOS music library

Possible Backup Approaches for comment ...

• Does OneDrive potentially satisfy all my requirements? Arguably yes, but it means having a lot of personal data in the cloud which I am uncomfortable with. Can backup software create an encrypted local backup which I could then upload to onedrive as a single file?
• Backup all data to the NAS drive which is in a different part of the house. That would reduce the risk of losing all data in a fire, but not completely remove it
• Backup to NAS or external drive and also backup non-confidential information to OneDrive. Additionally I could back up critical confidential data to the OneDrive personal vault

What backup tools would I need?
Is standard Robocopy software in Windows 10 adequate and easy to use? Others have recommended Macrium - is that the free one or a paid for one? Is that better than Windows 10?

Also should I encrypt backup to NAS or local external drive in case of theft?

Many thanks

[kiloran]

Others have recommended Macrium - is that the free one or a paid for one? Is that better than Windows 10?

Many thanks

I had the paid-for Macrium Reflect some years ago, but for the past 3-4(?) years, I've used the free Macrium Reflect. Does all I need and more. I can easily define multiple sets of instructions, and select which one to use, so I can have one script for full PC image backup, or one for selected files or folders, with various backup destinations.. It's simple, and has never failed me. And it's british!!!!

--kiloran

[mc2fool]

Here is what I think my requirements and options are. Please comment ...

Some quick questions:

a) what's the size of the hard drive on your PC and how much are you using?
b) how much space are your personal files taking?
c) how much of your personal data really needs to be secure/encrypted if on the cloud? E.g. spreadsheet with bank account details, obviously yes; photos of the family dog, not really...

Oh, also, what are your communication speeds? Broadband (actual), and PC to/from your NAS? Time the latter by copying a laaaarge file to it and timing it (if you have Windows 10 the file copy popup will give you transfer speeds.)