Another potential scam phone call

[ReformedCharacter]

What TPTB need to do is make the phone system secure from number spoofing. Then consumers could subscribe to a centrally maintained blocking list, much like adblock. And insist that all reputable companies do not start number withheld calls, so consumers could block number withheld calls without worrying that NHS 111 ringing them back can't get through.

We have a landline phone plugged directly into the socket, so that always rings, and a cordless answerphone that blocks withheld and international numbers, so you can tell the call type depending on what rings. And we work on the principle that if its important, they will write...

One issue is that (as I have moaned about here before) the NHS et al. routinely use number Withheld. I have pointed this out to my local GPs' surgery which does the same but they seem reluctant to reply - after 3 polite emails. Another problem is that there is nothing to prevent scammers from spoofing a real number, so unfortunately a central database wouldn't work.

RC

[jackdaww]

What TPTB need to do is make the phone system secure from number spoofing. Then consumers could subscribe to a centrally maintained blocking list, much like adblock. And insist that all reputable companies do not start number withheld calls, so consumers could block number withheld calls without worrying that NHS 111 ringing them back can't get through.

We have a landline phone plugged directly into the socket, so that always rings, and a cordless answerphone that blocks withheld and international numbers, so you can tell the call type depending on what rings. And we work on the principle that if its important, they will write...

One issue is that (as I have moaned about here before) the NHS et al. routinely use number Withheld. I have pointed this out to my local GPs' surgery which does the same but they seem reluctant to reply - after 3 polite emails. Another problem is that there is nothing to prevent scammers from spoofing a real number, so unfortunately a central database wouldn't work.

RC

===========================

your'e lucky . my GP doesnt publish emails.

[ReformedCharacter]

One issue is that (as I have moaned about here before) the NHS et al. routinely use number Withheld. I have pointed this out to my local GPs' surgery which does the same but they seem reluctant to reply - after 3 polite emails. Another problem is that there is nothing to prevent scammers from spoofing a real number, so unfortunately a central database wouldn't work.

RC

===========================

your'e lucky . my GP doesnt publish emails.

Yes, they're helpful like that! Nor does mine, I had to look up the Practice Manager on the CQC website and then found his NHS email with the help of Google

RC

[Infrasonic]

What TPTB need to do is make the phone system secure from number spoofing. Then consumers could subscribe to a centrally maintained blocking list, much like adblock. And insist that all reputable companies do not start number withheld calls, so consumers could block number withheld calls without worrying that NHS 111 ringing them back can't get through.

We have a landline phone plugged directly into the socket, so that always rings, and a cordless answerphone that blocks withheld and international numbers, so you can tell the call type depending on what rings. And we work on the principle that if its important, they will write...

One issue is that (as I have moaned about here before) the NHS et al. routinely use number Withheld. I have pointed this out to my local GPs' surgery which does the same but they seem reluctant to reply - after 3 polite emails. Another problem is that there is nothing to prevent scammers from spoofing a real number, so unfortunately a central database wouldn't work.

RC

I've moaned to an NHS specialists secretary about withheld numbers too, for years. Made no difference despite me missing some important calls from them. The secretary's number isn't withheld (and is a saved contact), but is also behind a PABX...

There are legitimate uses for withheld and spoofed numbers, banks fraud depts. frequently use them for one, so that scammers can't spoof their real numbers for their own phone fraud.

As discussed before on other threads, stopping mass spoofing when relying on different phone systems and legislation/compliance around the world is never going to work, even if it's theoretically possible.

Look at email. They've added layer upon layer of authentication protocols over the years.
Spam still exists and gets delivered (although to the junk folder mostly).

If you tighten up the delivery criteria from the receive end to reject everything that doesn't have perfect SPF/DKIM/DMARC/ARC and other (reverse DNS lookup et al) compliance then you'll end up bouncing a load of legitimate email (which happens quite often).

[mc2fool]

As discussed before on other threads, stopping mass spoofing when relying on different phone systems and legislation/compliance around the world is never going to work, even if it's theoretically possible.

Beh, while strictly true methinks that's a case of the perfect being the enemy of the good.

It is obviously possible for, e.g., BT to be able to certify the number of a call originated from a BT line that goes through the BT network (ok, Openreach) that is displayed on a BT customer's recipient phone. If it's a BT-to-BT call, within the BT network, they know for sure who called who -- self evidently so as they know who to charge and how much! And that, in fact, extends to all the telcos that run over BT kit (Sky, TalkTalk, etc).

And similarly so for calls within telcos that run their own kit and networks, e.g. Virgin-to-Virgin calls within the Virgin network also know for sure who called who, and it'd be eminently possible and reasonable for Virgin and BT to contractually agree to be "trusted" partners for this purpose.

So, I do think it would be quite feasible for at least BT, Sky, TalkTalk & Virgin to be able to certify that any UK landline number displayed is a genuine number* or display the number with, say, a "?" on the end if they can't be sure (i.e. if it comes from a non-trusted telco). What customers/customers' kit does with calls from un-certified numbers will be up to them, but the ability to be sure that the call appearing to be coming from your bank really is coming from your bank would be immensely useful. A great good, if not perfect.

* obviously legitimate spoofed numbers would have to be handled, by pre-registration with the telco or similar.

[Alaric]

So, I do think it would be quite feasible for at least BT, Sky, TalkTalk & Virgin to be able to certify that any UK landline number displayed is a genuine number* or display the number with, say, a "?" on the end if they can't be sure

You might hope so, but what appears the standard practice of the Indian call centres making these calls is that what appears superficially a genuine UK number is reported. If however you ring it back, you get the "Number you dialled has not been recognised" message. The latest variation seems to be to make the spoof number look like a local call, by using the same dialling code as the number being called.

[mc2fool]

So, I do think it would be quite feasible for at least BT, Sky, TalkTalk & Virgin to be able to certify that any UK landline number displayed is a genuine number* or display the number with, say, a "?" on the end if they can't be sure

You might hope so, but what appears the standard practice of the Indian call centres making these calls is that what appears superficially a genuine UK number is reported. If however you ring it back, you get the "Number you dialled has not been recognised" message. The latest variation seems to be to make the spoof number look like a local call, by using the same dialling code as the number being called.

Those are not UK sourced calls by BT etc customers and so the number could not be certified and would be presented with the "?" to indicate that.

[ReformedCharacter]

I'm doing well today, I've had 2 calls purportedly from Amazon, same script and probably the same office. Both point to Amazon-like domains:

h t t p s : / / a m z v i d e o 0 . w e b n o d e . c o m
h t t p s : / /a m a z o n s u p . w e b n o d e . c o m

Which appear to be genuine Amazon support pages but aren't. The scammer then asks that you to click on the 'Services' link which leads to remote control software....

Webnode appears to be a legitimate hosting company and I've contacted to them to report the abuse. I'll be interested to see if domains are taken down.

RC

Full marks to Webnode, I had replies to both emails this morning and both sites are 'suspended'

RC

[UncleEbenezer]

Full marks to Webnode, I had replies to both emails this morning and both sites are 'suspended'

RC

Well, a straight fraud site is a no-brainer for them. If there were any arguable case for the sites as you described (maybe academic research into psychology, with a harmless payload that alerts the user who goes further than you did to their danger), I expect they'd have discussed it with the host in advance.

Unlike all those value judgements over free speech, and whether (for example) calling someone names is so hurtful it has to be taken down, that get hosts into trouble when they fail to take them down.

[ReformedCharacter]

You might hope so, but what appears the standard practice of the Indian call centres making these calls is that what appears superficially a genuine UK number is reported. If however you ring it back, you get the "Number you dialled has not been recognised" message. The latest variation seems to be to make the spoof number look like a local call, by using the same dialling code as the number being called.

Normally when I've wasted as much of the scammer's time as I feel inclined to give and have found out the scam details I ask them something like 'Does your family know that you're just a thief?' At this point they hang-up. But yesterday one of them 'phoned me back immediately, to tell me that I had no idea how hard he had to work... Anyway, the Caller ID was different despite the fact that the calls were made consecutively from the same handset:

01967131580
01961539173

The first appears to have an area code for Strontian in Scotland and the second is unallocated:

https://www.ukphoneinfo.com/area-code/01961

So one way of reducing the number of scam-calls would be to filter out non-existent area codes - until they cotton on of course.

RC

[XFool]

Sudden spurt of incoming scam calls on landline this morning. Haven't had this for a long time.

Weird numbers or "International" shown on display.

[Bouleversee]

I have had 3 phone calls today, yet again, claiming to be from Amazon Prime telling me my subscription (which I don't have) will be renewed for £79.99 or whatever. I usually just put the phone down immediately but with the last one I thought I'd hang on till they cut off just to make their call as expensive as possible. However, although I had not, of course, pressed 1 as invited, I was surprised after a short time to hear a voice (not the fake one you hear when they first call) speaking and saying they were from Amazon. That's a new one on me. I presume, since I haven't clicked or given any information I am not compromised in any way. I was so shocked I just uttered some invective about being crooks and rang off immediately but maybe I should have strung her along to see what the spiel was.

The Amazon website tells us to report scam phone calls to Action Fraud but AF are only interested if a crime has been committed, i.e. they've conned someone out of their money; they are not interested in attempted fraud because that can't be proved. The Minister who responded to the letter I wrote to my MP was obviously not aware of that. Reporting to 1572 is also a waste of time as they only divert the call (I wonder who they divert it to) but the crooks just change the numbers every 5 minutes. I, too, have suggested doing away with number withheld calls and don't see any justifiable reason why doctors need to withhold their numbers.

I must have another go at Plusnet. I have been complaining for ages that although I'm supposed to get caller display, it usually just says incoming call. However, when my daughter put her mobile no. into my phone (Panasonic landline) it announced very loudly "Louise mobile". Not sure everyone would like their callers announced to everyone within earshot.

The other phone question I'd like an answer to is why almost every call on the Today programme fails to connect or keeps cutting off. If this is what happens when you shell out for an expensive smartphone, I'll stick to my landline though we are on the verge of being obliged to have a smartphone in order not to be excluded from various important things, including banking.

[Alaric]

That's a new one on me. I presume, since I haven't clicked or given any information I am not compromised in any way. I was so shocked I just uttered some invective about being crooks and rang off immediately but maybe I should have strung her along to see what the spiel was.

Had you said anything when answering the phone? There's a possibility that the automatic message or the alert to an operator is voice triggered. In other words if you don't say anything, it will ring off.

Still it might be worth a try to listen to the recorded message and leave the connection open. Like keeping the operators talking, it blocks their line.

[Redmires]

You will save yourself a whole lot of pain if you get yourself a BT Call Blocker phone. I got one for my elderly mother and she hasn't had a cold call for as long as I can remember. Your 'friendly' numbers can be programmed in and calls come straight through. All other numbers go to an answering system and will only connect to the phone if they state their name/business etc. The phone then rings and you can accept or reject the call. In practice, cold callers don't bother and automated calls are dropped straight away. Ok, it will cost £30 + but will free you from the hassle.

[Mike4]

You will save yourself a whole lot of pain if you get yourself a BT Call Blocker phone. I got one for my elderly mother and she hasn't had a cold call for as long as I can remember. Your 'friendly' numbers can be programmed in and calls come straight through. All other numbers go to an answering system and will only connect to the phone if they state their name/business etc. The phone then rings and you can accept or reject the call. In practice, cold callers don't bother and automated calls are dropped straight away. Ok, it will cost £30 + but will free you from the hassle.

These do however put off genuine callers as well. They are so tedious to deal with that I just ring off nowadays when calling back someone who wants helps with a broken boiler. If they can't be bovvered to programme it with my number after leaving me a message to call them back urgently, I can't be bothered to chug through the BT Call Blocker process when I have a list of other people to call back who don't have a BT Call Blocker phone!

Dammit I thought this was "Bitter Lemons"...

[Mike88]

The best one I had was from a woman who longed to lust after my body for a fee. I handed the caller over to my wife. Later I discovered the caller was from Papua New Guinea.

[Bouleversee]

That's a new one on me. I presume, since I haven't clicked or given any information I am not compromised in any way. I was so shocked I just uttered some invective about being crooks and rang off immediately but maybe I should have strung her along to see what the spiel was.

Had you said anything when answering the phone? There's a possibility that the automatic message or the alert to an operator is voice triggered. In other words if you don't say anything, it will ring off.

Still it might be worth a try to listen to the recorded message and leave the connection open. Like keeping the operators talking, it blocks their line.

No, I don't think I had even uttered an expletive.