Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to mark88man,stirlo,johnstevens77,Rhyd6,87investor, for Donating to support the site

Avoiding Google - help!

Seek assistance with technology
formoverfunction
2 Lemon pips
Posts: 136
Joined: June 12th, 2018, 9:27 pm
Has thanked: 61 times
Been thanked: 39 times

Re: Avoiding Google - help!

#339813

Postby formoverfunction » September 12th, 2020, 8:45 am

Infrasonic wrote:
Redmires wrote:


As the extensive comments on both of the links show, it's a minefield out there and a constantly changing situation. Startpage has been relisted by another site (but some say that they were paid to relist it)

https://blog.privacytools.io/relisting-startpage/

Maybe f*ckoffgoogle.net is the way forward ;)


With the right browser extensions/no logs VPN/no logs encrypted non ISP DNS etc. then you can get rid of many of the tracking issues.
Some essential services won't work if you block too much, so it all needs to be set up in a way where you can have allow/block as an A/B.

Different browsers is the easiest way, one set up for logged in services (banking, utilities etc.) with the maximum blocking you can get away but still keep functionality ( on a per site basis if needs be). Don't use that browser for anything else.
And then a block everything browser for general surfing and search that auto deletes all cookies/history et al on exit. I use Firefox for this on desktop and mobile.


Pretty much what I do. I use 2 browsers, one for banking etc and the other for more general browsing. On my general browser I use cookie jars so each sites cookies are kept seperate and I also use multi profiles on the browser. I like Privacy Badger. It learns what's tracking you and if you have Do Not Track set it will block them if they do! It's from the EFF https://www.eff.org/. I also flush all caches as the browser closes and start fresh each day. Of course, I also use a VPN. I just dislike the way Goolge has instered it's self all over the web. It's not just searches. It's trying to be everywhere.

If you are serious about not being tracked then you have to make an effort. And compromise. I will use Google for searches, I prefer Startpage & DDG, but I also find I mainly only use a handful of sites on a regualr basis, so the cookie jars and profiles make sense for me.

There's so many low cost single board computers out there, so if you really cherish privacy it's easy to have one set up just for seaching/research etc and using a different browser, user agent and IP. I find it's useful having a small machine for regular low level tasks like RSS, podcatching and RNS(!) with out choking up my aging/busy laptop. For under £50 it's a decent alternative to an upgrade and spending more money! :D

Parky
Lemon Slice
Posts: 271
Joined: June 9th, 2017, 8:51 am
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 65 times

Re: Avoiding Google - help!

#339820

Postby Parky » September 12th, 2020, 9:22 am

Dod101 wrote:
I am probably the only user of this Board that has not the slightest idea what you are talking about. It does not matter as for my simple needs I do not think that I need to know.

Dod


No, your reaction to this gobbledegook is the same as mine regarding most of the stuff on this board. I just use Microsoft Edge which is the default browser on Windows 10. I do still follow the board posts, as some of the simpler issues are comprehensible, and I have received useful suggestions to one or two simple questions.

Dod101
Lemon Half
Posts: 6570
Joined: October 10th, 2017, 11:33 am
Has thanked: 1504 times
Been thanked: 2641 times

Re: Avoiding Google - help!

#339835

Postby Dod101 » September 12th, 2020, 10:48 am

Nocton wrote:Dod says : "It does not matter as for my simple needs I do not think that I need to know." That's how Google has made its millions, by selling your information to others who think it does matter.


Do I care? Should I care? If it is Google that is instrumental in someone sending me stupid phishing emails most days then I would like to stop whatever it is doing. Otherwise good luck to Google I'd say.

Dod

Infrasonic
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2351
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 2:25 pm
Has thanked: 401 times
Been thanked: 545 times

Re: Avoiding Google - help!

#339874

Postby Infrasonic » September 12th, 2020, 12:46 pm

Dod101 wrote:
Nocton wrote:Dod says : "It does not matter as for my simple needs I do not think that I need to know." That's how Google has made its millions, by selling your information to others who think it does matter.


Do I care? Should I care? If it is Google that is instrumental in someone sending me stupid phishing emails most days then I would like to stop whatever it is doing. Otherwise good luck to Google I'd say.

Dod


The specific issues around how much you want Google to know about you are subjective and dependent on how much you rely on them for day to day operations. I allow enough data to be kept by them for me to benefit from their services. Most of my time on the internet is 'anonymous' however.

The overall big picture issue of security and data privacy is something that you should definitely be aware of.

The reality is that in a worse case scenario where a successful I.D theft takes place for instance, you might find all your bank accounts get cleared out and because secret info/passwords may have been used it will take some convincing for the banks to believe that it isn't you that's responsible. Or somebody might sell your house behind your back. It happens.
It may be statistically unlikely but that isn't much comfort if you can't pay your bills for weeks/months until you convince everyone you're innocent.

I.D thefts take place when the protagonists can stitch together enough personal information about you to convince third parties that they are you.
They'll generally get that data from unencrypted database hacks (companies boasting of encryption don't mention that even the biggest databases aren't always encrypted through the entirety of their chain, there are often unencrypted (plain text) exploitable internal gaps and if they have someone on the inside it's relatively trivial. Or the database has been compromised by poor configuration by a sysadmin leaving open ports exploitable from the internet with elevated privilege [admin] weaknesses in place). Phishing emails, spear phishing et al.

It pays therefore to have a somewhat paranoid , defensive mindset in place to minimise your exposure. As I said upthread you can't stop governments and private companies keeping personal details on you, including I.D related stuff like LR documents, Passport info, Drivers License, NI numbers, NHS numbers, UTR et al. But you can with a bit of thought[i] minimise[/i] your potential exposure to fraud, using things like two factor authorisation, encrypted email, encrypted data storage both locally and in the cloud etc.

Nothing is 100% secure, it just doesn't exist.

Dod101
Lemon Half
Posts: 6570
Joined: October 10th, 2017, 11:33 am
Has thanked: 1504 times
Been thanked: 2641 times

Re: Avoiding Google - help!

#339882

Postby Dod101 » September 12th, 2020, 1:11 pm

Interesting thank you. I guess I should be more aware. I was going to say more careful but as far as I know I am but I am also quite sure not anything like as much as I maybe ought to be. I will study this thread.

Dod

AF62
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1037
Joined: November 27th, 2016, 8:45 am
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 265 times

Re: Avoiding Google - help!

#339900

Postby AF62 » September 12th, 2020, 3:22 pm

Infrasonic wrote:The specific issues around how much you want Google to know about you are subjective and dependent on how much you rely on them for day to day operations. I allow enough data to be kept by them for me to benefit from their services. Most of my time on the internet is 'anonymous' however.

The overall big picture issue of security and data privacy is something that you should definitely be aware of.

The reality is that in a worse case scenario where a successful I.D theft takes place for instance, you might find all your bank accounts get cleared out and because secret info/passwords may have been used it will take some convincing for the banks to believe that it isn't you that's responsible. Or somebody might sell your house behind your back. It happens.
It may be statistically unlikely but that isn't much comfort if you can't pay your bills for weeks/months until you convince everyone you're innocent.

I.D thefts take place when the protagonists can stitch together enough personal information about you to convince third parties that they are you.
They'll generally get that data from unencrypted database hacks (companies boasting of encryption don't mention that even the biggest databases aren't always encrypted through the entirety of their chain, there are often unencrypted (plain text) exploitable internal gaps and if they have someone on the inside it's relatively trivial. Or the database has been compromised by poor configuration by a sysadmin leaving open ports exploitable from the internet with elevated privilege [admin] weaknesses in place). Phishing emails, spear phishing et al.

It pays therefore to have a somewhat paranoid , defensive mindset in place to minimise your exposure. As I said upthread you can't stop governments and private companies keeping personal details on you, including I.D related stuff like LR documents, Passport info, Drivers License, NI numbers, NHS numbers, UTR et al. But you can with a bit of thought[i] minimise[/i] your potential exposure to fraud, using things like two factor authorisation, encrypted email, encrypted data storage both locally and in the cloud etc.

Nothing is 100% secure, it just doesn't exist.


Not disagreeing with you about the need to be sensitive to information which is best kept to yourself for ID checks, but I just don’t see the link with Google - unless you are suggesting that Google is vulnerable.

But then that would apply to any company operating mail servers so people ought to stop using email unless they run the server themselves, but as that is even more likely to be vulnerable then they ought to stop using email.

But then is an envelope sent in the mail more secure! So stop sending messages and only tell people in person, but what is someone is eavesdropping... Yes, laying it on thick but you know what I mean, where do you stop.

As for ID information, the vast majority of people (yes I know not most people here) voluntarily give far more away to Facebook, Twitter, etc. than Google will ever know by looking at your browsing history.

Basic safety is straightforward. Don’t reuse passwords. Don’t click on links sent to you. Do use 2FA (and preferably not text based 2FA). Use banking apps in preference to websites. If someone calls you up telling you some tale about your computer or bank, put the phone down.

But as for Google knowing I visit this website or that website, really I don’t give a damn. What’s the worst they can do - sell my info to advertisers to display adverts which I don’t see as I run an adblocker?

Infrasonic
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2351
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 2:25 pm
Has thanked: 401 times
Been thanked: 545 times

Re: Avoiding Google - help!

#339922

Postby Infrasonic » September 12th, 2020, 5:17 pm


AF62
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1037
Joined: November 27th, 2016, 8:45 am
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 265 times

Re: Avoiding Google - help!

#339933

Postby AF62 » September 12th, 2020, 6:01 pm

Infrasonic wrote:https://policies.google.com/privacy?hl=en#intro


Seems fine to me.

Nocton
Lemon Slice
Posts: 289
Joined: November 6th, 2016, 11:25 am
Has thanked: 67 times
Been thanked: 82 times

Re: Avoiding Google - help!

#340142

Postby Nocton » September 14th, 2020, 9:43 am

Infrasonic wrote:https://policies.google.com/privacy?hl=en#intro

That's OK as long as they abide by it. They blotted their copybook when we found out they were reading the content of emails. Not many users would have agreed to that.

That's always been the problem. All these monopoly tech services have broken their promises and done sneaky things. Remember "Do no evil"? Now there is nothing unusual about that - all monopolies throughout history have exploited their markets and customers. That is why anti-trust law was brought in and Rockefeller Oil broken up. The trouble is that governments and Competition authorities have been very slow to understand tech monopolies which have been allowed to buy up their competitors, e.g. Facebook buying Instagram. Compare that with all the fuss in the UK, for example, when one supermarket wants to buy another, even though there is huge competition.

Redmires
Lemon Slice
Posts: 293
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 6:49 pm
Has thanked: 87 times
Been thanked: 115 times

Re: Avoiding Google - help!

#340185

Postby Redmires » September 14th, 2020, 12:45 pm

Nocton wrote:
Infrasonic wrote:https://policies.google.com/privacy?hl=en#intro

That's OK as long as they abide by it. They blotted their copybook when we found out they were reading the content of emails. Not many users would have agreed to that.


And the fact that they listen to your conversations if you have their products in the home (along with Amazon & Apple etc)

https://gdpr.report/news/2019/02/21/goo ... cy-rights/

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-styl ... 00616.html

AF62
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1037
Joined: November 27th, 2016, 8:45 am
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 265 times

Re: Avoiding Google - help!

#340221

Postby AF62 » September 14th, 2020, 3:49 pm

Nocton wrote:
Infrasonic wrote:https://policies.google.com/privacy?hl=en#intro

That's OK as long as they abide by it. They blotted their copybook when we found out they were reading the content of emails. Not many users would have agreed to that.

That's always been the problem. All these monopoly tech services have broken their promises and done sneaky things. Remember "Do no evil"? Now there is nothing unusual about that - all monopolies throughout history have exploited their markets and customers. That is why anti-trust law was brought in and Rockefeller Oil broken up. The trouble is that governments and Competition authorities have been very slow to understand tech monopolies which have been allowed to buy up their competitors, e.g. Facebook buying Instagram. Compare that with all the fuss in the UK, for example, when one supermarket wants to buy another, even though there is huge competition.


Well clearly Google isn't by definition a "monopoly tech service" as there are plenty of alternatives (even though they are not as good).

But more importantly, how do you know that the other services are keeping to their word about your data.

stevensfo
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1041
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 8:43 am
Has thanked: 583 times
Been thanked: 298 times

Re: Avoiding Google - help!

#340273

Postby stevensfo » September 14th, 2020, 7:14 pm

AF62 wrote:
Infrasonic wrote:The specific issues around how much you want Google to know about you are subjective and dependent on how much you rely on them for day to day operations. I allow enough data to be kept by them for me to benefit from their services. Most of my time on the internet is 'anonymous' however.

The overall big picture issue of security and data privacy is something that you should definitely be aware of.

The reality is that in a worse case scenario where a successful I.D theft takes place for instance, you might find all your bank accounts get cleared out and because secret info/passwords may have been used it will take some convincing for the banks to believe that it isn't you that's responsible. Or somebody might sell your house behind your back. It happens.
It may be statistically unlikely but that isn't much comfort if you can't pay your bills for weeks/months until you convince everyone you're innocent.

I.D thefts take place when the protagonists can stitch together enough personal information about you to convince third parties that they are you.
They'll generally get that data from unencrypted database hacks (companies boasting of encryption don't mention that even the biggest databases aren't always encrypted through the entirety of their chain, there are often unencrypted (plain text) exploitable internal gaps and if they have someone on the inside it's relatively trivial. Or the database has been compromised by poor configuration by a sysadmin leaving open ports exploitable from the internet with elevated privilege [admin] weaknesses in place). Phishing emails, spear phishing et al.

It pays therefore to have a somewhat paranoid , defensive mindset in place to minimise your exposure. As I said upthread you can't stop governments and private companies keeping personal details on you, including I.D related stuff like LR documents, Passport info, Drivers License, NI numbers, NHS numbers, UTR et al. But you can with a bit of thought[i] minimise[/i] your potential exposure to fraud, using things like two factor authorisation, encrypted email, encrypted data storage both locally and in the cloud etc.

Nothing is 100% secure, it just doesn't exist.


Not disagreeing with you about the need to be sensitive to information which is best kept to yourself for ID checks, but I just don’t see the link with Google - unless you are suggesting that Google is vulnerable.

But then that would apply to any company operating mail servers so people ought to stop using email unless they run the server themselves, but as that is even more likely to be vulnerable then they ought to stop using email.

But then is an envelope sent in the mail more secure! So stop sending messages and only tell people in person, but what is someone is eavesdropping... Yes, laying it on thick but you know what I mean, where do you stop.

As for ID information, the vast majority of people (yes I know not most people here) voluntarily give far more away to Facebook, Twitter, etc. than Google will ever know by looking at your browsing history.

Basic safety is straightforward. Don’t reuse passwords. Don’t click on links sent to you. Do use 2FA (and preferably not text based 2FA). Use banking apps in preference to websites. If someone calls you up telling you some tale about your computer or bank, put the phone down.

But as for Google knowing I visit this website or that website, really I don’t give a damn. What’s the worst they can do - sell my info to advertisers to display adverts which I don’t see as I run an adblocker?


I can't believe the people I've talked to have given away DOB, location, place of birth details etc not only to Facebook, but use the same data as part of log-in questions. For most sites like Facebook, I change the date and year in DOB to the next number, so I still receive birthday greetings albeit one day early or late. Same with easy-to-remember security questions. Just use a silly alternative that you never forget. Small changes to address, passport numbers (unless for important docs) etc. Be inventive. I know we generally think it's the elderly who don't understand the security implications, but I've met plenty of young people who shrug their shoulders and say "So what?"

Keep 'em on their toes and have fun!

Steve

Infrasonic
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2351
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 2:25 pm
Has thanked: 401 times
Been thanked: 545 times

Re: Avoiding Google - help!

#340429

Postby Infrasonic » September 15th, 2020, 2:30 pm

https://2.5admins.com/2-5-admins-11/
How Internet standards are decided, what a new one means for the Web, a surprising “feature” of Chrome, and the best ways to monitor your systems.
News
WebBundles Harmful to Content Blocking, Security Tools, and the Open Web
RFC8890: The Internet is for End Users
A Chrome feature is creating enormous load on global root DNS servers

Infrasonic
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2351
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 2:25 pm
Has thanked: 401 times
Been thanked: 545 times

Re: Avoiding Google - help!

#340463

Postby Infrasonic » September 15th, 2020, 4:41 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Rl82OQ ... 7FIY9v%3A6
Joe Rogan Experience #1536 - Edward Snowden
Former CIA contractor turned whistleblower Edward Snowden shocked the world when he revealed the misdeeds of the US intelligence community and its allies. Now living in Russia, he is a noted privacy advocate and author who serves as president of the Freedom of the Press Foundation. His book, Permanent Record, is now available in paperback from Henry Holt and Company.

IanSmithISA
Lemon Pip
Posts: 60
Joined: January 29th, 2018, 11:27 am
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 40 times

Re: Avoiding Google - help!

#340647

Postby IanSmithISA » September 16th, 2020, 1:47 pm

Good afternoon,

Parky wrote:
Dod101 wrote:
I am probably the only user of this Board that has not the slightest idea what you are talking about. It does not matter as for my simple needs I do not think that I need to know.

Dod


No, your reaction to this gobbledegook is the same as mine regarding most of the stuff on this board. I just use Microsoft Edge which is the default browser on Windows 10. I do still follow the board posts, as some of the simpler issues are comprehensible, and I have received useful suggestions to one or two simple questions.


I have a lot of sympathy with this view. :-)

The trouble is that around the start this year Microsoft abandoned the Edge browser in all but name and Edge is now Chrome with a Microsoft skin.

Given MS's love for forcing upgrades on its users it is quite likely that most people using Edge on Windows Home are now using the Chrome skinned Edge, a while back Opera did something similar

So as the PC browser choice narrows it means that Chrome can release a new feature and many websites will start to use it more rapidly than in the past because its uptake will be much faster.

Which is great news for malicious software writers as there will be more people using more buggy code.

Which such market dominance the Chrome project can say to the WWW Consortium that we define some web standards now. Sure some users will get left behind but most web site creators won't care.

Bye

Ian

Infrasonic
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2351
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 2:25 pm
Has thanked: 401 times
Been thanked: 545 times

Re: Avoiding Google - help!

#340654

Postby Infrasonic » September 16th, 2020, 2:05 pm

IanSmithISA wrote:Good afternoon,

Parky wrote:
Dod101 wrote:
I am probably the only user of this Board that has not the slightest idea what you are talking about. It does not matter as for my simple needs I do not think that I need to know.

Dod


No, your reaction to this gobbledegook is the same as mine regarding most of the stuff on this board. I just use Microsoft Edge which is the default browser on Windows 10. I do still follow the board posts, as some of the simpler issues are comprehensible, and I have received useful suggestions to one or two simple questions.


I have a lot of sympathy with this view. :-)

The trouble is that around the start this year Microsoft abandoned the Edge browser in all but name and Edge is now Chrome with a Microsoft skin.

Given MS's love for forcing upgrades on its users it is quite likely that most people using Edge on Windows Home are now using the Chrome skinned Edge, a while back Opera did something similar

So as the PC browser choice narrows it means that Chrome can release a new feature and many websites will start to use it more rapidly than in the past because its uptake will be much faster.

Which is great news for malicious software writers as there will be more people using more buggy code.



Which such market dominance the Chrome project can say to the WWW Consortium that we define some web standards now. Sure some users will get left behind but most web site creators won't care.

Bye

Ian


If you want to keep the old Edge you can, although it isn't being developed anymore by MS, so it's a bit moot as to what the point would be from a security updates perspective.

The obvious non-chromium choice of browser is Firefox, which has pretty good data privacy and security settings turned on by default.
Add a few extensions to it like uBlock Origin/HTTPS Everywhere/Privacy Badger and it's good to go.

Breelander
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3375
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:42 pm
Has thanked: 595 times
Been thanked: 1255 times

Re: Avoiding Google - help!

#340662

Postby Breelander » September 16th, 2020, 2:44 pm

Infrasonic wrote:
IanSmithISA wrote:The trouble is that around the start this year Microsoft abandoned the Edge browser in all but name and Edge is now Chrome with a Microsoft skin....


If you want to keep the old Edge you can, although it isn't being developed anymore by MS, so it's a bit moot as to what the point would be from a security updates perspective.


Chromium Edge is not 'Chrome with an MS skin'. Edge is based on the Open Source Chromium project, as is Chrome. They are cousins, not twins.

Anyway, I can't understand the attachment some feel for Legacy Edge.

IE had an over-blown and highly non-standard rendering engine. The code name for the original Edge while in development was 'Spartan', its design objective was to strip away all but the most essential and html-compatible features. It more than met its design objective and was widely panned when first unveiled in 2015 as being devoid of any useful features or settings. It has improved little over the years, there being too few 'hooks' in its original code to add new features.

It's a moot point how much longer you could keep hold of Legacy Edge. The update to the next version of Windows 10 (currently known to Insiders as 20H2, probably to be released as 2009) will come with Chromium Edge built in.

Infrasonic
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2351
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 2:25 pm
Has thanked: 401 times
Been thanked: 545 times

Re: Avoiding Google - help!

#340671

Postby Infrasonic » September 16th, 2020, 3:37 pm

Spartan Edge did have one redeeming feature, it played Youtube videos more smoothly than Chrome (less dropped frames on the same hardware, pointed out by several reviewers over the years), which is odd as both Chrome and YT are Google products.
Even today Chrome isn't optimised for YT, very strange.


Return to “Computers, TVs & Phones”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests