The Lemon Fool

Urbandreamer wrote:

UncleEbenezer wrote:You're missing two of the most popular: Android and IOS.

Different OSs for different devices. Android for the pocket-size 'puter. MacOS (OK, BSD with a proprietary skin) for the macbook. Linux for all other purposes. Making overall a mix.

I did indeed.

I was thinking in terms of PC use.

Which would kind-of work if you'd listed regular PC OSs. Perhaps Win/Mac/Linux/Other.

But you introduced chrome as a separate option. That's not really interchangeable with the regular desktop/laptop options. Once you've gone that far, it seems to me perverse to exclude android/ios.

UncleEbenezer wrote:But you introduced chrome as a separate option. That's not really interchangeable with the regular desktop/laptop options.

I think Google would like to think that for many people's use of desktops/laptops, it is.

Scott.

Aren't they all rather mixed up?
I switch Linux, Mac Os and iOS all on at the same time in the morning and use them together?
Collectively, to work through my invetsing day.
iOS gives me notifications and SMS verifIcations, Debian handles my RSS, RNS and Bloomberg Radio and I read and browse via OSX.
I can shares files etc between all 3 of them, so I'm infact arguing, they are extensions of the same workflow. When approprate, an iPhone is a bit less hassle to move around tha my laptop or desktop, but that doesn't mean I can't pick up where I left off when back on a different devices and OS!
That's a thing I like about the combination of LInux and OSX's bsd base. AFP, SSH etc works well.
As I write this on my Mac in also connected to my Debian box, via SSH, for my news and listening to radio on Pop! OS in Virtual Box.Directoriies on Pop! on Deb can be synced with a couple of bash aliases, so on the rare occasions I take my laptop out into the wild, I can still take a virtual Linux machine with me. I also run different VPN destinations on each and that can also be useful too! It's just one workflow, with different OS tools.

UncleEbenezer wrote:Which would kind-of work if you'd listed regular PC OSs. Perhaps Win/Mac/Linux/Other.

But you introduced chrome as a separate option. That's not really interchangeable with the regular desktop/laptop options. Once you've gone that far, it seems to me perverse to exclude android/ios.

While I don't have a chromebook, I'm not so sure that I'd agree with you.

One of my job's today is to introduce my wife to google doc's. She is quite happy with Excel and LibraOffice. However she could do with something that makes it easy for multiple people to work on the same spreadsheet or document. Many would argue that word processing and spreadsheets are all they need a PC for (ignoring web browsing). A chromebook or decent mobile phone with monitor and keyboard plugged in would happily do the job.

By that argument I should have included Android and IOS. I was thinking hardware, when asking about the OS, which was wrong. I.E desktop or laptop form factor.

If any of you DO use either Android or IOS often for such tasks PLEASE post, or even better start a second thread and post a link.

swill453 wrote:

Bagger46 wrote:I have never owned a mobile phone, never needed one, but with various banks (UK and EU) seriously messing me around with so called increased security) might have to soon.

Can't the Surface Pro take a SIM card? May be able to receive SMS messages, even if it can't make phone calls.

Scott.

Mine is not the latest version, it can't. Looking back we should have got the iPad model which can, so it would have made that device 'earn its keep', but at the time, a few years ago, it did not seem to matter.

So I will probably get a 'cheap' smart sim free mobile(there is a newish Moto with a stylus I might go for, it has a good screen size which I would need, won't have too much unwanted software which I would hate....the grandkids won't approve with their iphones or latest Samsungs of course. Also I know zilch about Andoid, so it might be interesting to pick up something new to chew on in my very near 80s), but to be honest I am very fed up with this farce of so called increased 'finance' security which is going the rounds. One of the many accounts we have(most business related), this one with a French bank, is proving really annoying on this 'security' front, and of course Brexit might make things worse.

There are other things happening which might force us to get a proper smart mobile anyway, as it is increasingly assumed by society that we own one in so many ways nowadays. I have always prized the fact that I 'can't be reached' at certain times, so having to own a mobile I don't see as that desirable.

Bagger

PS There is a 15 odd year old pay as you go Nokia 'steam driven totally unsmart' which sits in the car, my wife tells me it still does the job for the odd emergency. I have never used it, don't plan to. Could become a collectors piece, incredible battery hold in all weathers.

Windows for work, because I have no choice...
-------

5% time wise on Windows for personal activities where I prefer separate monitor(s), usually when using office applications or scanning docs.

80% Chromebook, which is great for casual browsing, shopping, and media consumption. But disappointing for office apps, mainly because many of the keyboard shortcuts usually don't work in cloud apps, no Excel macros, etc.

10% Android (phone), but I think it's increasing, as more and more I'm finding companies are making things work easier in their apps than on their websites.

5% Android (tablet), usually just browsing.

Well no changes to the votes for a while I see.

So, most people consider themselves to only use one operating system. Either because they don't use a none windows tablet or smart phone. Or interperated the question as I orginally meant it.

The majority of those use windows.

A surprising amount consider themselves to use multiple operating systems. Either because they interperated the question as it was written (my bad), or work on multiple operating systems.

Thanks everyone.

Urbandreamer wrote:Well no changes to the votes for a while I see.

So, most people consider themselves to only use one operating system. Either because they don't use a none windows tablet or smart phone. Or interperated the question as I orginally meant it.

The majority of those use windows.

A surprising amount consider themselves to use multiple operating systems. Either because they interperated the question as it was written (my bad), or work on multiple operating systems.

Thanks everyone.

I think the vote shows how abnormal the respondents to the poll (?? = visitors to thread??) are. There is no way that 20% of 'normal' computer users use Linux. And as has been mentioned, Android is now quite common on tablets, so no votes for 'Other' is also odd.
What were you hoping to find out from the poll?

Nocton wrote:I think the vote shows how abnormal the respondents to the poll (?? = visitors to thread??) are. There is no way that 20% of 'normal' computer users use Linux. And as has been mentioned, Android is now quite common on tablets, so no votes for 'Other' is also odd.
What were you hoping to find out from the poll?

OF COURSE responders are not "normal". The poll was instigated because someone remarked that he thought most people here used Linux.
Most "normal" people don't hang out on "Investment and Personal Finance Discussion Forums" either.

The purpose of the poll was simply to find out what most people on this board, or who used TLF and might visit a poll on this board use.
The results seem clear enough to me and answer my question... it's Windows.

The poll was not worded well. I intended to exclude OS's that were not used for word processing, spreadsheets and other such office or home office functions, mathematics, software developement, CAD work or image/video edditing. However as was pointed out to me, it's not what I asked and even if I had asked that it is possible to perform office functions on a high end Android device.

Urbandreamer wrote:The poll was not worded well. I intended to exclude OS's that were not used for word processing, spreadsheets and other such office or home office functions, mathematics, software developement, CAD work or image/video edditing. However as was pointed out to me, it's not what I asked and even if I had asked that it is possible to perform office functions on a high end Android device.

I found the poll interesting, pretty much confirmed what I thought in terms of rough % for posters here. Thought the Mac usage might be a bit higher (maybe they just shout louder?... )

I'm encouraged by the number of people using multiple OS' on a daily basis, rather than sticking to one platform.

Infrasonic wrote:I'm encouraged by the number of people using multiple OS' on a daily basis, rather than sticking to one platform.

My use of Linux is limited to a few Live USBs for emergencies and a Linux Mint VM. It's so infrequent that it's not worth registering it for the purposes of this poll.

Windows in all its flavours has been my speciality since Win 3.x and on through NT4 and '95. In physical or virtual form I currently run XP, W7, W8.1 and W10.

I grudgingly made the free upgrade from Windows7 to Windows10 last week, after Windows 7 got too slow.

I put Windows 10 on a new SSD, so I could easily go back to Windows7 if needed and also have more space to install Ubuntu alongside on the new larger SSD.
With Windows10, I had to make a few countermeasures, such as editing the registry to stop the search bar using bing, when I just want to search the PC! After that, I'm pleasantly suprised by Windows 10 and so far haven't installed Ubuntu.

Urbandreamer wrote:I confess that I thought that MacOS was NOT BSD, MacOS is posix compliant while BSD is not. Though internally they are very similar.

Apple have chosen those parts of Unix which have the most permissive licences, so for example recently they changed from bash to zsh not because its better but because the licence is more favourable.
Similarly a bunch of the BSD derived utilities shipped with MacOS are woefully out of date compared to Linux, because licensing.
They obviously want to avoid a lawsuit that could possibly force them to open source the whole of MacOS.

It is a 5 minute job to install newer utilities on a Mac but most people aren't going to bother.

Lanark wrote:Similarly a bunch of the BSD derived utilities shipped with MacOS are woefully out of date compared to Linux, ...

This would be similar to the reason that I use vi, not vim and that the shell is ksh not bash, on my QNX host. To be honest the serious difference between BSD and POSIX, which makes the mac NOT BSD, is signal handling and process groups.

https://sites.cs.ucsb.edu/~almeroth/cla ... gnals.html

We are deep in Geekland here, but the mac os is not BSD, even if it has some of the same utilities.

Urbandreamer wrote:

Nocton wrote:I think the vote shows how abnormal the respondents to the poll (?? = visitors to thread??) are. There is no way that 20% of 'normal' computer users use Linux. And as has been mentioned, Android is now quite common on tablets, so no votes for 'Other' is also odd.
What were you hoping to find out from the poll?

OF COURSE responders are not "normal". The poll was instigated because someone remarked that he thought most people here used Linux.
Most "normal" people don't hang out on "Investment and Personal Finance Discussion Forums" either.

The purpose of the poll was simply to find out what most people on this board, or who used TLF and might visit a poll on this board use.
The results seem clear enough to me and answer my question... it's Windows.

The poll was not worded well. I intended to exclude OS's that were not used for word processing, spreadsheets and other such office or home office functions, mathematics, software developement, CAD work or image/video edditing. However as was pointed out to me, it's not what I asked and even if I had asked that it is possible to perform office functions on a high end Android device.

OK, but I think the bit I have italicised is relevant too. "The purpose of the poll was simply to find out what most people on this board, or who used TLF and might visit a poll on this board use. I did not vote, as I expect most users of this board did not either. Polls like this don't really tell one anything, as you don't know the sample size in relation to the population, using 'sample' and 'population' in their statistical sense. They are commonly reported in the media from organisations like advertisers who want to 'prove' something.

So I still think don't think that you can conclude anything from the poll. And I should not think that anyone doubted that most people use Windows, on this board or elsewhere. Contented Windows users who, like me are not into Linux,etc., are not really likely to vote,

jaizan wrote:I grudgingly made the free upgrade from Windows7 to Windows10 last week, after Windows 7 got too slow.

I put Windows 10 on a new SSD, so I could easily go back to Windows7 if needed and also have more space to install Ubuntu alongside on the new larger SSD.
With Windows10, I had to make a few countermeasures, such as editing the registry to stop the search bar using bing, when I just want to search the PC! After that, I'm pleasantly suprised by Windows 10 and so far haven't installed Ubuntu.

I bought a new laptop last year and immediately set about making it dual boot with Ubuntu, not having used windows for some years. Turns out to have been wasted effort, as I find W10 perfectly acceptable, and now default to using it on that device.

Nocton wrote:Polls like this don't really tell one anything, as you don't know the sample size in relation to the population, using 'sample' and 'population' in their statistical sense. They are commonly reported in the media from organisations like advertisers who want to 'prove' something.

Sample size is not a big issue. How to deal with it is well-understood by any A-level student (or thereabouts) competent in stats.

The big reason online polls like this (and most that you see reported - including some of the professional ones) fall down is the self-selecting sample. You hint at that when you tell us you didn't vote. I've no idea if your hypothesis about windows-users not voting holds water (I expect it may very well apply across-the-board), but it's certainly a kind of consideration that can instantly invalidate conclusions drawn from a poll. Even one like this whose outcome doesn't matter to anyone, and which is therefore never going to attract campaigners for a Cause!

Is the reason for the defensiveness that you get p***ed off with evangelists for non-windows platforms? If so, may I suggest you just ignore them? If you're seeing it everywhere, you're dangerously close to the "offence culture" that sees racism, sexism, etc everywhere.

UncleEbenezer wrote:
Is the reason for the defensiveness that you get p***ed off with evangelists for non-windows platforms? If so, may I suggest you just ignore them? If you're seeing it everywhere, you're dangerously close to the "offence culture" that sees racism, sexism, etc everywhere.

It's not offence culture -- racism is bloody everywhere!

Interesting that the response to people who think differently is to coin a new term of abuse for them: "offence culture". Is this the latest replacement for "politically correct"?

GS
[EDIT: Yes I know one should not feed the trolls...]

jaizan wrote:I
With Windows10, I had to make a few countermeasures, such as editing the registry to stop the search bar using bing, when I just want to search the PC!

A quick aside, not wishing to disturb the thread:
- download Voidtool's 'everything.exe' for your PC search (https://www.voidtools.com/), and O&O's ShutUp10 (https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10)
torata

GoSeigen wrote:It's not offence culture -- racism is bloody everywhere!

Of course it's everywhere. It's just a sub-set of 'I don't like people who are different'.

I only use Windows.
I voted.
Hmmm. That makes me odd.
Or thick.
Or both

V8