'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

[Mike4]

It's not about security... other than using it as a crowbar in to people's fears
- it's cynical marketing and customer manipulation at its worst

-sd

I was reading recently that Apple are considering removing the charging port for the next iPhone and making it wireless charging only.

Not only does this neatly step around the stance the EU is taking on requiring a common charging port, but it also means that there is no data port to do an iTunes reset and restore, which should be fun for the unauthorised market stall repairers.

This seems a very good idea. As a heavy user of an iPhone I charged my last iPhone 8 every day and the charge socket actually wore out. Consequently I charge my replacement iPhone 8 using wireless charge pads and frankly it is delightfully easy to just put the phone down on one instead of plugging the wire in, I have several dotted around the house. I never use the socket for data anyway.

[Infrasonic]

Making the iPhone wireless charging only is a daft idea. The option of wireless and cabled makes far more sense.
If you use your phone a lot, how are you supposed to get a quick charge without rendering it mostly unuseable?

I presume Apples answer would be as all their kit can talk to each other then use one of your other Apple devices to check messages, make phone/app calls et al whilst wirelessly charging your iPhone.

My answer to that would be I want a device that I can used standalone or connected, wirelessly and by cable (for power and data), as I see fit at the time depending on my needs - not Apples patronising we know best attitude (obviously they know what is best for their profitability...).

Wirelessly charging overnight makes sense, it can actually help with battery life - being less aggressive than cabled quick(er) charge.

Relying on one solution without any plan B redundancy is never a good idea.

I note many higher end laptops from many OEM's (not just Apple) are now going to Thunderbolt ports only - you need a breakout dongle to get any other port options like HDMI/Displayport/USB A/Ethernet (RJ45). (There's also loads of issues with varying data and power implementations of Thunderbolt/USB C - it's a complete mess.)

All well and good until you get an issue with say the Thunderbolt chip/firmware and then find your dongle stops working and alternatives are severely limited, especially if peripherals don't have Bluetooth (not great anyway) or WiFi capability.

Bit difficult to charge a TB only laptop as well in the above scenario if it doesn't also have a barrel jack backup option. Wireless could work there too but it would take ages - something the electric car companies are wrestling with.

[servodude]

Making the iPhone wireless charging only is a daft idea. The option of wireless and cabled makes far more sense.

My answer to that would be I want a device that I can used standalone or connected, wirelessly and by cable (for power and data), as I see fit at the time depending on my needs - not Apples patronising we know best attitude (obviously they know what is best for their profitability...).

I note many higher end laptops from many OEM's (not just Apple) are now going to Thunderbolt ports only - you need a breakout dongle to get any other port options like HDMI/Displayport/USB A/Ethernet (RJ45). (There's also loads of issues with varying data and power implementations of Thunderbolt/USB C - it's a complete mess.)

All well and good until you get an issue with say the Thunderbolt chip/firmware and then find your dongle stops working and alternatives are severely limited, especially if peripherals don't have Bluetooth (not great anyway) or WiFi capability.

Bit difficult to charge a TB only laptop as well in the above scenario if it doesn't also have a barrel jack backup option. Wireless could work there too but it would take ages - something the electric car companies are wrestling with.

Thunderbolt/USBC while it's a bit of a lumped solution is very capable; the one port to rule them all makes sense from a real estate point of view in laptops, especially if you can have a few of them in different places on the chassis

it would have been "a good thing" if Apple (who had been involved in its design and use it on their laptops) had used it over the lightning connector for other iDevices; it would have sent the correct message - reduced the amount of landfill - as well as being a better connector

I'm sure there will be more wireless charging in the future (we've a product in approvals testing at the moment which uses it exclusively) and that there will be more regulation thereof also
- on a good day it's about 40% less efficient than a cabled charge (when charging)
- and takes noticeably more quiescent power when not
but its really handy in devices where you need verifiably complete isolation

Anyways... things will break but I'm happy if they are able to be repaired; preferably by me with parts I can buy easily
- it's preferable to binning them
and much more preferable to making up bad excuses about security as a justification to do so
If companies were serious about security they would be locking down the SHAs of SOUP being used in their software libraries
- https://medium.com/@alex.birsan/dependency-confusion-4a5d60fec610
I do; it helps with IEC 62304

- sd

[Infrasonic]

Thunderbolt/USBC while it's a bit of a lumped solution is very capable; the one port to rule them all makes sense from a real estate point of view in laptops, especially if you can have a few of them in different places on the chassis.
- sd

On paper Thunderbolt is great, unfortunately the OEM's have made a dogs dinner of implementation. Because of all the various protocols it can transmit you have to spend an age digging through the tech specs seeing what you are actually going to get per device before you buy it.
Is it a full power/data port with all the bells and whistles, or is it limited data (USB+) and limited power?

Thunderbolt 4 is no faster than TB 3, both 40Gb max (and that has real world gotchas too - in reality you often won't get more than 20Gb of actual data throughput even on a full 4X implementation).
All they've done is tighten up the badging criteria to try and lessen the range of OEM options allowed to call themselves TB4. So if you bring out a laptop with a 1x(10Gb) or 2x(20Gb) only port you won't be allowed to call it TB4, whereas before you could call it TB3 even if in reality it was no faster than USB 3.2 (10Gb) and had no HDMI/DisplayPort/Power pass through et al. Same with the dongles, they were all different specs.
If you bought an expensive full fat dongle and paired it with a PC/laptop with limited TB/USB C functionality you got snookered.

USB is similarly fragmented now, all the 1x - 2x by 2x etc variations are making it very complicated. USB 4 should help rationalise all this once it trickles through (now part of the TB4 spec as well), but I'd rather not have to spend so much time researching what exactly I'm getting with new kit and what all the gotchas are.

The naming conventions and changes that have happened over the years with USB is a text book case of how not to do it - absolutely laughable.
There's quite a few technical articles, YT videos covering all this - both TB and USB C implementations are well known issues.
Caveat emptor.

[ReformedCharacter]

Interesting video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5v8D-alAKE

Apparently Apple were fined for nobbling the iPod and there was a cartel in the 1920's to limit the lifespan of lightbulbs (to 1000 hours).

RC

[Infrasonic]

https://frame.work/gb/en/blog/introduci ... ork-laptop

When we launched the Framework Laptop a year ago, we shared a promise for a better kind of Consumer Electronics: one in which you have the power to upgrade, repair, and customize your products to make them last longer and fit your needs better.

Today, we’re honored to deliver on that promise with a new generation of the Framework Laptop, bringing a massive performance upgrade with the latest 12th Gen Intel® Core™ processors, available for pre-order now. We spent the last year gathering feedback from early adopters to refine the product as we scale up.

We’ve redesigned our lid assembly for significantly improved rigidity and carefully optimized standby battery life, especially for Linux users.

Finally, we continue to expand on the Expansion Card portfolio, with a new 2.5 Gigabit Ethernet Expansion Card coming soon...Cont

https://www.fairphone.com/en/story/

https://shop.fairphone.com/gb_en/spare-parts

[AF62]

https://www.fairphone.com/en/story/

https://shop.fairphone.com/gb_en/spare-parts

You might be able to repair their phones, but they don’t run the latest Android version and with the version 3 they sell they only “aim” to provide security and safety updates for another two years.

Why buy a phone that is already out of date and which will be unusable in such a short timescale?

[Infrasonic]

https://www.fairphone.com/en/story/

https://shop.fairphone.com/gb_en/spare-parts

You might be able to repair their phones, but they don’t run the latest Android version and with the version 3 they sell they only “aim” to provide security and safety updates for another two years.

Why buy a phone that is already out of date and which will be unusable in such a short timescale?

https://techcrunch.com/2020/04/29/fairp ... d-handset/

...When the Fairphone 3 launched last September it came with Android 9 preloaded. But the company touted a post-launch update that would make it easy for buyers to wipe Google services off their slate and install the Android Open Source Project, which it recommended for advanced users.

The new /e/OS flavor offers a third OS option...Cont.

[AF62]

https://www.fairphone.com/en/story/

https://shop.fairphone.com/gb_en/spare-parts

You might be able to repair their phones, but they don’t run the latest Android version and with the version 3 they sell they only “aim” to provide security and safety updates for another two years.

Why buy a phone that is already out of date and which will be unusable in such a short timescale?

https://techcrunch.com/2020/04/29/fairp ... d-handset/

...When the Fairphone 3 launched last September it came with Android 9 preloaded. But the company touted a post-launch update that would make it easy for buyers to wipe Google services off their slate and install the Android Open Source Project, which it recommended for advanced users.

The new /e/OS flavor offers a third OS option...Cont.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki//e/_(operating_system)

In November 2020, Tim Anderson of The Register said installation of /e/ is "not for the fainthearted"

In February 2021 Ferdinand Thommes of Linux News .de published a submitted review of Fairphone 3 with pre-installed /e/. They called it "very expensive" and said on initial startup, an operating system update was needed, which took about 15 minutes. After a few minutes the Bliss Launcher was "annoying" so they replaced it with a different launcher from F-Droid, which took "about 3 hours." Fingerprint sensing did not work reliably initially or after a sensor replacement.

So it doesn’t run the latest version of Android, won’t be supported for more than two years unless you are prepared to jump through hoops with your fingers crossed and time to waste - and even then it may not work properly.

Doesn’t sound like a great buy.

[Infrasonic]

https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?i ... one2=11410

[AF62]

https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=11136&idPhone2=11410

Android 11 - so out of date already, whereas the iPhone is likely to be supported with the latest OS until 2030 (the 6S released in 2015 can still run the latest IOS 15).

Being able to replace physical parts yourself for a number of years isn't an awful lot of good unless the manufacturers also make sure you can also install the latest OS for a similar timespan.

[UncleEbenezer]

Being able to replace physical parts yourself for a number of years isn't an awful lot of good unless the manufacturers also make sure you can also install the latest OS for a similar timespan.

Um ... you need to stand that on its head.

Any meaningful right to repair applies equally to physical parts and non-physical parts like the software.

Apart from warranty obligations, the manufacturer's role in any of that is purely optional. If Android support stops, you have other options up to and including wiping android and installing an OS from scratch.

Yes, not everyone would try that. Just as not everyone would try any other repair. I acquired my first radio when my grandma said "if you can fix it, you can have it". That might be very well be a way for today's kids to acquire a first smartphone.

[Infrasonic]

https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=11136&idPhone2=11410

Android 11 - so out of date already, whereas the iPhone is likely to be supported with the latest OS until 2030 (the 6S released in 2015 can still run the latest IOS 15).

Being able to replace physical parts yourself for a number of years isn't an awful lot of good unless the manufacturers also make sure you can also install the latest OS for a similar timespan.

Android 11 was the latest release when the FF 4 was launched as 12 wasn't out...12 is current (got it on my Pixel 3a which started on Android 9) with 13 on the horizon...do keep up. FF 4 has a 5 year warranty, iPhone 1 year with Apple care costs on top if you want to do a like for like...

One of the best things to do with an old unsupported Mac is stick Linux on it...

[AF62]

Android 11 was the latest release when the FF 4 was launched as 12 wasn't out...12 is current (got it on my Pixel 3a which started on Android 9) with 13 on the horizon...do keep up.

The FF4 was launched on 30 September 2021 and Android 12 was released 19 days later on 19 October 2021 - and yet Fairphone are still selling the FF4 with Android 11 seven months later. Why are they not shipping it with the current Android OS and only "hoping" to be able to update the FF4 to Android 12 "sometime" in 2022, whilst in the meantime their customers have to muddle along with an out of date OS.

Even then hey are only guaranteeing the FF4 to be able to receive Android 12 and 13 - whoopee - a two year life span.

But then it gets worse, they are selling the FF3+ with the even more ancient Android 10 and they only "hope" to be able to update it to the already out of date Android 11 "sometime" in 2022.

Then it gets even worse. The FF3 that was released just over two years ago in September 2019 is already obsolete as they have no intention of ever updating that to Android 12, let alone anything later.

As before, with Apple the current IOS 15 can still be installed on phones first sold in 2015 and in addition, when Apple release a new OS, then every device that can support it, whether it is a 7 year old 6S or a brand new 13 gets the release on the same day.

If a phone is to have a long life it needs software not just hardware.

[AF62]

Being able to replace physical parts yourself for a number of years isn't an awful lot of good unless the manufacturers also make sure you can also install the latest OS for a similar timespan.

Um ... you need to stand that on its head.

Any meaningful right to repair applies equally to physical parts and non-physical parts like the software.

Apart from warranty obligations, the manufacturer's role in any of that is purely optional. If Android support stops, you have other options up to and including wiping android and installing an OS from scratch.

Yes, not everyone would try that. Just as not everyone would try any other repair. I acquired my first radio when my grandma said "if you can fix it, you can have it". That might be very well be a way for today's kids to acquire a first smartphone.

But which is likely to keep phones out of landfill for longer? A manufacturer who ensures that their phones are supported with software releases for many years after they are sold or a manufacturer that gives up after a year or two and tells people they are on their own.

[AF62]

I've got a full toolkit from being a sound engineer, so probably a bit of an outlier there - but 99% of what I've done repair wise has required minimal tools, certainly no 'special' tools beyond the reach of the average consumer.

You would probably not be surprised to learn that Apple would seem to disagree with you that no 'special' tools are required to replace a battery in a phone.

Their recently launched 'right to repair' kit rental service weighs in at 79 pounds and fills two suitcases - https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/21/2307 ... t-hands-on

[Infrasonic]

I've got a full toolkit from being a sound engineer, so probably a bit of an outlier there - but 99% of what I've done repair wise has required minimal tools, certainly no 'special' tools beyond the reach of the average consumer.

You would probably not be surprised to learn that Apple would seem to disagree with you that no 'special' tools are required to replace a battery in a phone.

Their recently launched 'right to repair' kit rental service weighs in at 79 pounds and fills two suitcases - https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/21/2307 ... t-hands-on

I'm already aware of all that smokescreen nonsense (designed to comply with right to repair in name but not spirit) - they could design the phone more simply so it didn't need two suitcases of specialist tools to replace a battery. It's a phone, not an F1 car...
Your uncritical fanboy promotion of Apple is becoming tiresome now.

[AF62]

I've got a full toolkit from being a sound engineer, so probably a bit of an outlier there - but 99% of what I've done repair wise has required minimal tools, certainly no 'special' tools beyond the reach of the average consumer.

You would probably not be surprised to learn that Apple would seem to disagree with you that no 'special' tools are required to replace a battery in a phone.

Their recently launched 'right to repair' kit rental service weighs in at 79 pounds and fills two suitcases - https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/21/2307 ... t-hands-on

I'm already aware of all that smokescreen nonsense (designed to comply with right to repair in name but not spirit) - they could design the phone more simply so it didn't need two suitcases of specialist tools to replace a battery. It's a phone, not an F1 car...
Your uncritical fanboy promotion of Apple is becoming tiresome now.

I actually posted it because I thought it amusing…

[BobbyD]

I still have my first PC and the case is still the original! I expect my next motherboard to be ATX and to fit, although the CPU and RAM will need replacing at the same time.

Yeah, but the ATX standard is only 27 years old! m-ATX is 25 years old, even my favoured m-itx is 21 years old. The perfect marriage of slow format changes and fast content changes.