'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

[AF62]

So Apple will replace the battery on a 7 year old phone for a reasonable price so keeping it working, but Samsung et al won’t so most people have to throw their phones away. And yet you suggest Apple are the bad guys?

As for you taking a phone apart to replace the battery - you do realise you are not representative of 99.99% of the population.

'Taking it apart' is a massive over complication...I used a plectrum tool to pop the rear plastic cover off (no screws), a spudger to loosen the grip on the battery double sided tape, popped the three standard screw plastic shield off the top of ribbon connector, popped that connector. Removed the battery, put the new one in and reversed the procedure. Well under five minutes.
Level of electronics knowledge required to complete? Literally zero. I didn't even refer to an online tutorial as it was blindingly obvious just looking at it with the rear cover off what needed doing.
'Toolkit' £1.50. Official LG OEM Battery (I checked out the authorised validity of the Amazon vendor first) -£10.

“'Taking it apart' is a massive over complication” really? If you suggested to the average person that they used a ‘spudger’ to fix their phone, they would think you were being obscene/mad/speaking a foreign language.

And anyway could you do that with a modern Android phone.

[AF62]

Apple clearly and explicitly say they will change the battery and set out the cost. Meanwhile you hope that Samsung will, even though they don’t say they do and certainly don’t set out the costs.

No, I don't hope. I don't "hope" that either Apple or Samsung will change the battery in my phone as neither made it. I just can't be bothered to find out what the cost would be to change the battery on a phone that I don't own! You are the one making claims about Samsung.

You are missing the point.

Apple was being criticised, and yet they explicitly state they will replace batteries on phones up to 7 years old, and clearly tell customers the cost.

Samsung (and the other Android manufacturers) make no such clear and explain statement.

Why would Samsung (and the others) hide the fact they did this if they do?

My current phone is a Cubot note 20 Pro and to change the battery you simply remove the back cover using your finger nails and swap the battery.
A replacement battery would cost me £13.50 from ebay or £15 from Amazon.

And will you get 7 years of Android OS updates with that phone?

[Infrasonic]

So Apple will replace the battery on a 7 year old phone for a reasonable price so keeping it working, but Samsung et al won’t so most people have to throw their phones away. And yet you suggest Apple are the bad guys?

As for you taking a phone apart to replace the battery - you do realise you are not representative of 99.99% of the population.

'Taking it apart' is a massive over complication...I used a plectrum tool to pop the rear plastic cover off (no screws), a spudger to loosen the grip on the battery double sided tape, popped the three standard screw plastic shield off the top of ribbon connector, popped that connector. Removed the battery, put the new one in and reversed the procedure. Well under five minutes.
Level of electronics knowledge required to complete? Literally zero. I didn't even refer to an online tutorial as it was blindingly obvious just looking at it with the rear cover off what needed doing.
'Toolkit' £1.50. Official LG OEM Battery (I checked out the authorised validity of the Amazon vendor first) -£10.

“'Taking it apart' is a massive over complication” really? If you suggested to the average person that they used a ‘spudger’ to fix their phone, they would think you were being obscene/mad/speaking a foreign language.

And anyway could you do that with a modern Android phone.

I never knew what a spudger was until I Googled it. Then I realised I might need one or two for phone repairs.

Current phone is a Pixel 3a, battery replacement procedure considered 'moderate' by iFixit. Batteries...https://www.google.com/search?q=pixel+3 ... 63&bih=561

I do always check before buying anything new these days about ease of repairs/upgrades and cost of spares. It's definitely near the top of my priority list and I have crossed stuff off that I otherwise would have bought.

[AF62]

'Taking it apart' is a massive over complication...I used a plectrum tool to pop the rear plastic cover off (no screws), a spudger to loosen the grip on the battery double sided tape, popped the three standard screw plastic shield off the top of ribbon connector, popped that connector. Removed the battery, put the new one in and reversed the procedure. Well under five minutes.
Level of electronics knowledge required to complete? Literally zero. I didn't even refer to an online tutorial as it was blindingly obvious just looking at it with the rear cover off what needed doing.
'Toolkit' £1.50. Official LG OEM Battery (I checked out the authorised validity of the Amazon vendor first) -£10.

“'Taking it apart' is a massive over complication” really? If you suggested to the average person that they used a ‘spudger’ to fix their phone, they would think you were being obscene/mad/speaking a foreign language.

And anyway could you do that with a modern Android phone.

I never knew what a spudger was until I Googled it. Then I realised I might need one or two for phone repairs.

Current phone is a Pixel 3a, battery replacement procedure considered 'moderate' by iFixit. Batteries...https://www.google.com/search?q=pixel+3 ... 63&bih=561

I do always check before buying anything new these days about ease of repairs/upgrades and cost of spares. It's definitely near the top of my priority list and I have crossed stuff off that I otherwise would have bought.

https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Google+Pix ... ent/124322 I would be astonished if one person in a thousand who buys a Google Pixel 3a would undertake that!

[Infrasonic]

https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Google+Pix ... ent/124322 I would be astonished if one person in a thousand who buys a Google Pixel 3a would undertake that!

26 steps
Time 20-50 minutes.

And yet half the time and number of procedures as the current iPhone!...https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPhone+12+ ... ent/140611
42 steps
Time 1-2 HOURS...

[Urbandreamer]

You are missing the point.

Apple was being criticised, and yet they explicitly state they will replace batteries on phones up to 7 years old, and clearly tell customers the cost.

Yes they were. I was specifically criticising them for locking down their battery hardware. Many others have the similar complaints. However we can vote with our wallets as long as we have the information to make the choice.

And will you get 7 years of Android OS updates with that phone?

You mean like that Apple update that caused the phones to slow down? Or the update in the video that I linked to that prevented the camera being swapped?

I have in fact had two android updates since I bought the phone. The first when the phone was first powered on and the second a few months later.
I don't expect to get any more. However you really ought to read some of the past posts in this thread again to understand why I see that as an advantage.

In a few years it's entirely likely that I could download a custom ROM. After all you can for the Cubot X18.
Something like this.
https://crdroid.net/
Or even stock Android from the open source project.

Do I want updates?
In the last 24hr it has been reported that the latest Win 10 update is causing computers to crash.
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-styl ... 16391.html

Apple are not the only company that deserves criticisem, however they have done plenty to deserve it over the years.
Anyone remember how to hold an Iphone 4 so that you could get a signal?

[AF62]

You are missing the point.

Apple was being criticised, and yet they explicitly state they will replace batteries on phones up to 7 years old, and clearly tell customers the cost.

Yes they were. I was specifically criticising them for locking down their battery hardware. Many others have the similar complaints. However we can vote with our wallets as long as we have the information to make the choice.

They don’t ‘lock down’ their battery hardware. You can have your battery replaced at an authorised repairer. Far more preferable than a bloke at the back of a newsagent fiddling with the security sensors on the phone.

And will you get 7 years of Android OS updates with that phone?

You mean like that Apple update that caused the phones to slow down? Or the update in the video that I linked to that prevented the camera being swapped?

You are criticising them for designing their software to give an extended lifespan as the battery aged for equipment which would otherwise be thrown away?

I have in fact had two android updates since I bought the phone. The first when the phone was first powered on and the second a few months later.
I don't expect to get any more. However you really ought to read some of the past posts in this thread again to understand why I see that as an advantage.

In a few years it's entirely likely that I could download a custom ROM. After all you can for the Cubot X18.
Something like this.
https://crdroid.net/
Or even stock Android from the open source project.

So you see it as acceptable, and even a good thing, that Cubot are willing to see their phones thrown away or their customers exposed to security risks because they are too cheap/don’t care enough to provide OS updates.

And the solution is a custom ROM which is beyond the scope of most users, and makes the phone useless for most as the ROM is likely rooted so cannot be used with many apps.

[AF62]

https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Google+Pix ... ent/124322 I would be astonished if one person in a thousand who buys a Google Pixel 3a would undertake that!

26 steps
Time 20-50 minutes.

And yet half the time and number of procedures as the current iPhone!...https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPhone+12+ ... ent/140611
42 steps
Time 1-2 HOURS...

Steps to replacing an iPhone battery which people actually do -

1. Take phone to Apple.
2. Pay them.
3. Take phone away with a guaranteed battery and use it.

[88V8]

I don't recall any company "deliberately obsolescing something by sabotaging its software" - do you have examples?

What, apart from Apple you mean?

Well, if you read the AV forums you will find many examples of modern televisions where software that was a ksp ceases to work or ceases to be available, after just a few years.
https://www.avforums.com/forums/

Example: TVs are no different to any electronic device that relies on software. Sooner or later the cost of licencing, the capability of the processor/memory and the advancement in features in apps will mean the device can no longer support or run the current apps. The only option, as suggested, is to upgrade the TV with an external device.
https://www.avforums.com/threads/my-sma ... t-28848452

For my money, changing or 'upgrading' something so it no longer works on older models is a form of sabotage.

V8

[AF62]

I don't recall any company "deliberately obsolescing something by sabotaging its software" - do you have examples?

What, apart from Apple you mean?

Who actually have done far more than the Android manufacturers to ensure their products continue to operate correctly with an up to date secure OS.

Well, if you read the AV forums you will find many examples of modern televisions where software that was a ksp ceases to work or ceases to be available, after just a few years.
https://www.avforums.com/forums/

Example: TVs are no different to any electronic device that relies on software. Sooner or later the cost of licencing, the capability of the processor/memory and the advancement in features in apps will mean the device can no longer support or run the current apps. The only option, as suggested, is to upgrade the TV with an external device.
https://www.avforums.com/threads/my-sma ... t-28848452

For my money, changing or 'upgrading' something so it no longer works on older models is a form of sabotage.

V8

But the point you are missing is that it is not the TV manufacturer that is "changing or 'upgrading' something so it no longer works on older models" when BBC iPlayer, Netflix, Skype, etc. app stops working.

The TV manufacturer provides a portal on their TV for the service providers to deliver their apps, little different to the Google or Apple stores.

If the service provider, the BBC, Netflix, Skype, etc. change their service so a new app is required on the TV that is nothing at all to do with the TV manufacturer. Samsung, LG, Sony, etc. have not done anything at all, let alone anything wrong, if the service provider withdraws their app because their new app requires capabilities beyond that of the TV, so they are not guilty of "deliberately obsolescing something by sabotaging its software".

Aim your ire at the correct villain; the service providers being the BBC, Netflix, Skype, etc who choose not to maintain multiple apps and multiple streams to allow their service to be received on older TVs.

[mutantpoodle]

No, we do not all agree with that statement.
I don't remember any of the real difficulties preventing politicians from going ahead with Brexit

I was meaning that we agree its unlikely to work....the sentiment is fine but practicality doubtful imo

the real difficulties of Brexit can be overcome as soon as BOTH sides agree to get on with things and not be awkward
eg
suddenly our waters in Channel are no longer acceptable so fish no good!

worse than children arguing

[servodude]

the point you are missing is that it is not the TV manufacturer that is "changing or 'upgrading' something so it no longer works on older models" when BBC iPlayer, Netflix, Skype, etc. app stops working.

Absolutely!

I'd suggest that what really should drive the choice of a TV are picture, ports and sound
- all singing and dancing smart apps aren't going to be so smart in a year or two
- much easier to plug in a new "thing" when new features are needed than rely on updates
- same goes double in cars!

-sd

[88V8]

If the service provider, the BBC, Netflix, Skype, etc. change their service so a new app is required on the TV that is nothing at all to do with the TV manufacturer. Samsung, LG, Sony, etc. have not done anything at all, let alone anything wrong, if the service provider withdraws their app because their new app requires capabilities beyond that of the TV, so they are not guilty of "deliberately obsolescing something by sabotaging its software".

It's a nice distinction.
But I'm sure the TV manufacturers could tie down the service provideers to a guaranteed period of functionality, say ten years, in return for hosting their apps through their TVs. Instead, they conspire to make their products 'obsolete'.

One could also mention satnavs. If my 2003 Tomtom had not fallen off the windscreen and broken, I would be most peeved that it cannot now handle the latest maps. After all, the world has not expanded, and the road network has not expanded that much.
Deliberately obsolesced, imo.

V8

[AF62]

If the service provider, the BBC, Netflix, Skype, etc. change their service so a new app is required on the TV that is nothing at all to do with the TV manufacturer. Samsung, LG, Sony, etc. have not done anything at all, let alone anything wrong, if the service provider withdraws their app because their new app requires capabilities beyond that of the TV, so they are not guilty of "deliberately obsolescing something by sabotaging its software".

It's a nice distinction.
But I'm sure the TV manufacturers could tie down the service provideers to a guaranteed period of functionality, say ten years, in return for hosting their apps through their TVs. Instead, they conspire to make their products 'obsolete'.

10 years! That is an eternity in technology - iPhones have only existed for 14 years.

If a TV manufacturer said to a service provider that they wouldn't put their app in their portal unless it was supported for 10 years the answer would be "well don't then" as the service provider would know that all the other TV manufacturers would and the TV manufacturer would know that if they cannot offer the main apps then they won't sell TVs.

One could also mention satnavs. If my 2003 Tomtom had not fallen off the windscreen and broken, I would be most peeved that it cannot now handle the latest maps. After all, the world has not expanded, and the road network has not expanded that much.
Deliberately obsolesced, imo.

V8

Does anyone still use a standalone satnav?

And if so why would they want to deprive themselves of the far superior routing, traffic, navigation, alerts, voice control, etc. that are available through a navigation app on a smartphone.

[ReformedCharacter]

Does anyone still use a standalone satnav?

And if so why would they want to deprive themselves of the far superior routing, traffic, navigation, alerts, voice control, etc. that are available through a navigation app on a smartphone.

Yes, although I haven't needed it for some time and it's becoming obsolete because AFAIK there are no map updates for it. Otherwise it still works well. I have an iPhone which I was given - I wouldn't buy one personally - which I find annoying, it has a smaller screen than my TomTom and keeps asking me to sign-in with an Apple account or whatever.

RC

[Infrasonic]

It would be great if TV manufacturers just started producing reasonably priced dumb TV's but with decent port provision instead so you could hook up multiple 'smart' peripherals as needed without resorting to HDMI switch boxes.

The Nvidia shield gets a decent support lifecycle --but that's because Nvidia make their own CPU/GPU the Tegra X1 and X1+ and so can keep it compatible with all the Android TV OS/app updates.

[AF62]

I have an iPhone which I was given - I wouldn't buy one personally - which I find annoying, it has a smaller screen than my TomTom and keeps asking me to sign-in with an Apple account or whatever.

RC

So create an Apple account and sign in with it...

[ReformedCharacter]

I have an iPhone which I was given - I wouldn't buy one personally - which I find annoying, it has a smaller screen than my TomTom and keeps asking me to sign-in with an Apple account or whatever.

RC

So create an Apple account and sign in with it...

Yes, actually I did think to do that but it keeps asking me anyway. Perhaps it's because I have this strange habit of turning it off when I'm not using it. But it seems to work even if I select 'Not now'.

RC

[bungeejumper]

Does anyone still use a standalone satnav?

And if so why would they want to deprive themselves of the far superior routing, traffic, navigation, alerts, voice control, etc. that are available through a navigation app on a smartphone.

I'm another ridiculous Luddite who hasn't made his smartphone the very epicentre of his worldly existence yet. (Of course, living in a mobile notspot doesn't help.) I don't imagine I'll buy another satnav when my present TomTom expires, but for the time being I'll luxuriate in the six inch screen that's bigger than any smartphone that I'd want to put into my pocket. I probably only use the satnav ten times a year in any case. Which is about as often as I use my smartphone in anger.

And nor do I really want to have to link every extremity of my life to that one little device that could fall out of my pocket at any moment, or be stolen, or be in the pocket of the other coat that I wore yesterday, or simply crash/run out of battery when I need it most.

Or cost me a pile of roaming charges when I'm abroad, which my dedicated satnav won't......

Dammit, I quite like having separate devices for separate tasks. (Within reason.) And if the gizmo I use in my car can stay in my car, then that's one less thing to have to think about. I fully appreciate that none of this will make sense to the fully committed, 24/7 linked-up technorati at all, but hey, you did ask.

BJ

[AF62]

Does anyone still use a standalone satnav?

And if so why would they want to deprive themselves of the far superior routing, traffic, navigation, alerts, voice control, etc. that are available through a navigation app on a smartphone.

I'm another ridiculous Luddite who hasn't made his smartphone the very epicentre of his worldly existence yet. (Of course, living in a mobile notspot doesn't help.) I don't imagine I'll buy another satnav when my present TomTom expires, but for the time being I'll luxuriate in the six inch screen that's bigger than any smartphone that I'd want to put into my pocket.

Mine is bigger than that - ooh er, missus - I mean my phone! Even so I connect it via Apple CarPlay so I can used the car's built in large navigation screen.

I probably only use the satnav ten times a year in any case. Which is about as often as I use my smartphone in anger.

And nor do I really want to have to link every extremity of my life to that one little device that could fall out of my pocket at any moment, or be stolen, or be in the pocket of the other coat that I wore yesterday, or simply crash/run out of battery when I need it most.

I don't suppose I could interest you in an Apple Watch then where you can read your emails and messages, record walks and exercise, use it as a contactless payment card, control your heating and lights, keep your shopping list, play music, podcasts, and audiobooks to linked headphones, set alarms and timers, show the weather, etc. etc.

Or cost me a pile of roaming charges when I'm abroad, which my dedicated satnav won't......

The right phone tariff, but there are numerous smartphone apps where you can download the local maps if you don't want to use data.

Dammit, I quite like having separate devices for separate tasks. (Within reason.) And if the gizmo I use in my car can stay in my car, then that's one less thing to have to think about. I fully appreciate that none of this will make sense to the fully committed, 24/7 linked-up technorati at all, but hey, you did ask.

BJ

I don't! Separate devices means more things to forget.