Which one?

[BT63]

For complex reasons I want to use an old PC for daily computing over the next year before eventually significantly upgrading.

I have two ageing PCs which I'm thinking of using which are virtually identical (Dell Optiplex, 8GB RAM DDR3, 500GB HDD) apart from the processor:

E8400 Intel Core2 Duo (3.0GHz, 6MB L2)
Q8300 Intel Core2 Quad (2.5GHz, 4MB L2)

To spare me from days of trial and error, which processor do you think is likely to give the best experience for modern daily office/internet/email tasks?

Thanks,
BT

[Midsmartin]

I'd be hard pushed to choose. Probably the quad core one.

Assuming you are using Windows, do they both support Windows 10?

Replacing the hard drive with an SSD will have a big effect on usability. They're pretty cheap these days.

[BT63]

I'd be hard pushed to choose. Probably the quad core one.

Assuming you are using Windows, do they both support Windows 10?

Replacing the hard drive with an SSD will have a big effect on usability. They're pretty cheap these days.

Thanks.

Yes, they seem to support Windows 10, 7, Vista and XP.

I've been scared away from SSD/flash due to suffering premature failures in the not too distant past, especially as those that failed on me were respectable brands.
However I agree that for certain things SSD is much quicker than conventional HDD.

[mc2fool]

If it helps at all: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/Intel-Core2-Duo-E8400-vs-Intel-Core2-Quad-Q8300/955vs9

[Breelander]

To spare me from days of trial and error, which processor do you think is likely to give the best experience for modern daily office/internet/email tasks?

Like mc2fool, my first step is always to compare benchmarks.

I'd say use the Q8300. It has a significantly higher benchmark, plus it has 4 cores as opposed to the 2 of the E8400 (Windows thrives on having as many cores/threads as possible). Having said that, either should do the job. I regularly use a laptop with a Pentium B950, it handles MS Office and routine use adequately with a lower benchmark than either of yours.

CPU Benchmarks | Intel Pentium B950 @ 2.10GHz vs Intel Core2 Duo E8400 @ 3.00GHz vs Intel Core2 Quad Q8300 @ 2.50GHz

[Infrasonic]

I've been scared away from SSD/flash due to suffering premature failures in the not too distant past, especially as those that failed on me were respectable brands.
However I agree that for certain things SSD is much quicker than conventional HDD.

I run my i5 desktop multiboot. C drive is an SSD, D is a HDD and then there are various external USB SSD OS boot options (on a multi file system /partitioned Samsung T5). USB OS' can be set up persistently if needs be.
In the event that the SATA SSD completely fails I can boot into the HDD/USB SSD.
I've had to use it that way once so far - luckily I'd set it all up before the SSD failure - which fortunately I managed to RMA and get a FOC replacement even though just outside the 3 year warranty (thanks Sandisk!).

Backup is Macrium Reflect (paid version 7 but I used to have free for years without issue) so restoring the latest W10 image is no problem to a new drive. Additionally W10 File History and cloud syncs (OneDrive/Google Drive et al) for documents are an easy way to carry on as is with versioned files after a drive failure.

[Midsmartin]

I have had merchanical hard drives fail on me utterly with no warning. I've used ssds for years and never had one fail yet; anecdotes don't make data. Don't be put off an SSD. They are absolutely mainstream now. But you do of course need good backups, just as you do with any computer.

[Infrasonic]

If you've had multiple failures of branded DRAM/SLC cache SSD's I'd be looking elsewhere for an issue.
Possibly power supplies.
On older kit potentially aging capacitors may be causing issues with a smooth PSU DC supply - if it's a bit spikey that could be causing downstream problems. I've read on the SSD manufacturer forums that power issues can be a problem.

I can't prove any correlation but the AC mains around my way was very inconsistent for years because of all the flat building works and constant fiddling by the infrastructure provider (Electricity North West) - I'm sure the frequent brownouts and surges didn't help anyway.
I chewed through a PC PSU, an SSD and some other electricals in a short space of time, and then for the past couple of years things have been far more stable all round.

A decent uninterruptible power supply unit can help there if you can justify the cost.
https://www.apcdistributors.com/white-p ... esigns.pdf

[Arborbridge]

I'd be hard pushed to choose. Probably the quad core one.

Assuming you are using Windows, do they both support Windows 10?

Replacing the hard drive with an SSD will have a big effect on usability. They're pretty cheap these days.

Thanks.

Yes, they seem to support Windows 10, 7, Vista and XP.

I've been scared away from SSD/flash due to suffering premature failures in the not too distant past, especially as those that failed on me were respectable brands.
However I agree that for certain things SSD is much quicker than conventional HDD.

But... I've had at least two sudden failures with a normal hard drive. Backing up essential data frequently to a stick gives me a safety net, but it's still a real b***** when it happens.

Arb.

[BT63]

I'd be hard pushed to choose. Probably the quad core one.

Assuming you are using Windows, do they both support Windows 10?

Replacing the hard drive with an SSD will have a big effect on usability. They're pretty cheap these days.

Thanks.

Yes, they seem to support Windows 10, 7, Vista and XP.

I've been scared away from SSD/flash due to suffering premature failures in the not too distant past, especially as those that failed on me were respectable brands.
However I agree that for certain things SSD is much quicker than conventional HDD.

But... I've had at least two sudden failures with a normal hard drive. Backing up essential data frequently to a stick gives me a safety net, but it's still a real b***** when it happens.

Arb.

I've never had a normal hard drive failure in any of the ~20 computers I've owned over the years but I've had three or four SSD/flash-based failures in the last five years (retro-fitted quality brand such as Sandisk) although the one computer we have which came with SSD (OEM, HP laptop) has been fine in the couple of years since we bought it.

And, yes, backup, backup, backup although I use conventional external hard drives because I don't trust SSD/flash-based since it seems that they nearly always fail on me within a few years.

I also find that SSD/flash backups are vastly more likely to not backup correctly and/or report errors or faults with the drive while trying to back up.

[Breelander]

... I've had at least two sudden failures with a normal hard drive....

I've never had a normal hard drive failure in any of the ~20 computers I've owned over the years but I've had three or four SSD/flash-based failures in the last five years (retro-fitted quality brand such as Sandisk) ....

All drive, HDD or SSD can fail. HDDs tend to giver more advanced warnings, but you have to look for them (SMART data 'Reallocated sector count' for example). If you don't know to look, or do but ignore the signs, then the drive will appear to be functional until the errors become too many to compensate for. The subsequent failure may appear sudden, but there may have been indications prior to the failure you were not aware of.

I've had two HDDs fail on me, but not before I had a chance to back them up and replace them. One of them was apparently fully functional, but by chance I saw that its Reallocated sector count was steadily increasing. My immediate reaction was to make a Macrium image of the drive, more than doubling the reallocated sectors in the process. My second step was to replace it with a Samsung 860 EVO SSD and restore the image to that. That was nearly two years ago, after more that 11TB written to the SSD it still reports as fully healthy. The manufacturer's guarantee is 5 years or 300TBW, whichever is the sooner. That's another 50+ years before I exceed the manufacturer's endurance specs. I expect the SSD to outlive me, let alone the PC it's installed in.

[BT63]

Oh dear, me and my big mouth.

It's rather ironic that about an hour ago I had my first HDD drive failure ever.

It failed while copying a large number of files from a 2014 Compaq CQ2000-series (Seagate 500GB HDD) which was retired from main duties in 2019 (when five years old) due to it becoming unusually slow and had suffered a few program crashes.

[xeny]

As a tip for SSDs and HDDs, periodically running "CrytalDiskInfo" to report on a drives SMART status often gives a degree of warning of failure.

https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backblaz ... -for-2020/ is also an interesting read when deciding on hard drive manufacturers.

[Breelander]

As a tip for SSDs and HDDs, periodically running "CrytalDiskInfo" to report on a drives SMART status often gives a degree of warning of failure.

https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backblaz ... -for-2020/ is also an interesting read when deciding on hard drive manufacturers.

Good tips. It was in fact CrystalDiskInfo that gave me my early warning in time to rescue the contents of the HDD a couple of posts back. I used the Portable Apps version that does not need installing: https://portableapps.com/apps/utilities ... o_portable

And BackBlaze are well worth reading too, perhaps this blog first though. It's a few years old now, but explains their rationale behind analysing those stats.

Backblaze | What SMART Stats Tell Us About Hard Drives

[Infrasonic]

Many SSD's come with their own OEM monitoring software apps. that do SMART/TRIM, wear rates, firmware updates, logs et al.
I have WD/Sandisk HDD/SSD and Samsung (USB) SSD so have both OEM apps installed.

I'm working on the basis that if I run into any operational issues then being able to provide OEM logs would speed up any warranty RMA situation - as well as hopefully improving the chances of an out of warranty FOC solution.

Out of warranty replacements won't have any further warranty, and there may be increasing hurdles to multiple OoW applications as a fraud prevention measure - I'll find that one out the next time with WD...