Roaming charges...

[Infrasonic]

So I see EE have been the first to blink and introduce extra charges for EU roaming, be interesting to see if the other networks/MVNO's follow suit or use it as a differentiator to attract new customers.

I'm out of contract on my Three SIM only deal, I might hang on a bit to see what they announce before renewing...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57595913

Mobile operator EE will charge new customers extra to use their mobile phones in Europe from January.

Those joining or upgrading from 7 July 2021 will be charged £2 a day to use their allowances in 47 European destinations from January 2022.

EE previously said it had no plans to reintroduce roaming charges in Europe.

[PhaseThree]

Actually it was O2 who were the first to announce roaming charges for data yesterday., EE followed suit today, albeit with a far bigger charge.
Neither company has explained why these charges are necessary.
Lets hope Three and Vodafone hold out.

[BobbyD]

I think O2 beat them to it, although the new charges only kick in once 25GG of data have been used, and will cost £3.50 per subsequent GB.

Still I remember being told in no uncertain terms that this specific thing wouldn't happen post-Brexit, so it must be the phone companies indulging in project fear.

[Infrasonic]

They might as well just differentiate the various tariffs - with roaming and without.
For those without you'll have to take some affirmative action via their app/website and pay a bit more for a roaming allowance on a PAYG basis.

I used to work in the EU more than the UK but hardly travel now due to back issues, so if it came down to it I'd opt for a cheaper non- roaming deal with the ability to add on when needed or just get a local SIM for data and use IP calls/messaging.

eSIMS were supposed to take the headache out of all this (easily switching to a local network for data use) but haven't been universally implemented by the networks even though many phones have the capability (my Pixel 3a does).

[RockRabbit]

Still I remember being told in no uncertain terms that this specific thing wouldn't happen post-Brexit, so it must be the phone companies indulging in project fear.

Yup, another Brexit bonus

Taking back control to boost Telco profits.

[pje16]

Plusnet (allegedly) have no roaming charges
https://www.plus.net/help/mobile/roam-like-at-home/
and they piggyback onto EE so perhaps a change is imminent

[stevensfo]

Actually it was O2 who were the first to announce roaming charges for data yesterday., EE followed suit today, albeit with a far bigger charge.
Neither company has explained why these charges are necessary.
Lets hope Three and Vodafone hold out.

Well, on the one hand, Vodafone is all over the world, so I don't see why they should introduce roaming charges.

On the other hand, I've yet to deal a more conniving, sneaky and cunning mobile company than Vodafone, so they probably will!

Steve

[Lootman]

Vodafone is all over the world, so I don't see why they should introduce roaming charges.

That doesn't mean that VOD owns the equipment they use in every country they operate. So they are at the mercy of other entities for the fees charged for using their equipment, global or not.

Anyway charges are based on local demand and not on cost of provision. If you want it then pay for it. If you don't then find another way. In my case I buy a cheap local throwaway phone if I am in another country for any length of time.

[AF62]

Lets hope Three and Vodafone hold out.

??? Vodafone introduced EU roaming charges a year ago when it introduced its 'Basics' plan which didn't include any roaming, and it was only those who paid for the *much* more expensive standard plan could still roam in the EU 'free'.

[UncleEbenezer]

Lets hope Three and Vodafone hold out.

??? Vodafone introduced EU roaming charges a year ago when it introduced its 'Basics' plan which didn't include any roaming, and it was only those who paid for the *much* more expensive standard plan could still roam in the EU 'free'.

Therein surely lies the answer. You have a choice of plans. They have a choice of what choices to offer us.

[AF62]

Lets hope Three and Vodafone hold out.

??? Vodafone introduced EU roaming charges a year ago when it introduced its 'Basics' plan which didn't include any roaming, and it was only those who paid for the *much* more expensive standard plan could still roam in the EU 'free'.

Therein surely lies the answer. You have a choice of plans. They have a choice of what choices to offer us.

And therein lies the problem; previously they were not allowed to offer plans which didn't include EU roaming, now they can and can charge whatever they want.

But it is what it is.

Don't want EU roaming with Vodafone then pay £6 per month for 4GB data and unlimited calls and texts. Want EU roaming with Vodafone and you will be paying them £15 per month.

Does anyone really think it costs Vodafone 150% on top of the normal cost to provide EU roaming, or it will cost EE £2 a day for them to provide roaming (and you can guarantee £2 is EE's starting point and it will rapidly increase from there).

This is simply a way for the telecoms companies to increase profits.

[Gerry557]

Vodafone is all over the world, so I don't see why they should introduce roaming charges.

In my case I buy a cheap local throwaway phone if I am in another country for any length of time.

Great won't be happy with you chucking stuff!



No roaming charges was on my list as a pro in my Brexit decision list. I don't know if there are more costs or if its a money generation exercise. The list was fairly small, in fact this was my only pro I recall.

Maybe the telecoms could explain why its being reintroduced or maybe they don't want to admit why. Was it an EU ruling to bin roaming charges.

My gut feeling would be to move to another provider, "in protest" but if they are all jumping on the bandwagon......

Maybe we should all buy more shares then?

[Infrasonic]

Was it an EU ruling to bin roaming charges.

Yep. There was also legislation introduced to make porting your number to another provider easier, and unlocking phones quickly (and now for free), making freephone numbers actually free (gasp) et al - all of which the networks dragged their heels over until kicked up the proverbial.

The infrastructure costs for mobile networks are colossal, but most of these companies also have share holders, so consumers getting a 'good deal' is never going to be top of the priority list - hence regulators and legislation.

[AF62]

Was it an EU ruling to bin roaming charges.

Yep. There was also legislation introduced to make porting your number to another provider easier, and unlocking phones quickly (and now for free), making freephone numbers actually free (gasp) et al - all of which the networks dragged their heels over until kicked up the proverbial.

And prior to free roaming there was also the EU requirement to cap costs at a lowish amount (£50 iirc) before the service was then cut off to prevent people running up bills of thousands - something else the telecoms companies said they couldn't do until funnily enough they could when the EU made it a requirement.

The problem seems to be that the telecoms companies have constantly demonstrated that they need to feel the threat of a stick on their back before they will actually do anything which might impact their profits, and the concept of delivering a good value service to the consumer through competition between them is an utter fantasy.

And the issue is that firm hand controlling them has now vanished to be replaced by... well lets stop there before this ends up in political territory.

[paulnumbers]

Actually it was O2 who were the first to announce roaming charges for data yesterday., EE followed suit today, albeit with a far bigger charge.
Neither company has explained why these charges are necessary.
Lets hope Three and Vodafone hold out.

Well, it's probably not cheap to negotiate deals with 27 european countries, and backhaul the traffic to the UK. So I see no intrinsic reason why they shouldn't charge a fee for this, and those that don't require the service don't pay.

[AF62]

Well, it's probably not cheap to negotiate deals with 27 european countries, and backhaul the traffic to the UK. So I see no intrinsic reason why they shouldn't charge a fee for this, and those that don't require the service don't pay.

But do you think if costs them so much that they need to triple the monthly rate, which is what Vodafone do. Or charge six times the monthly rate for a fortnight away, which is what EE are proposing.

It is price gouging, pure and simple. And our pathetic politicians will do nothing.

[Lootman]

Well, it's probably not cheap to negotiate deals with 27 european countries, and backhaul the traffic to the UK. So I see no intrinsic reason why they shouldn't charge a fee for this, and those that don't require the service don't pay.

But do you think if costs them so much that they need to triple the monthly rate, which is what Vodafone do. Or charge six times the monthly rate for a fortnight away, which is what EE are proposing.

It is price gouging, pure and simple. And our pathetic politicians will do nothing.

Then you might as well criticise the entire model for mobile phone charging. Because a phone call costs next to nothing to the operator. Data costs next to nothing. The reason phone-cos get to charge a lot for calls and data is because of the massive upfront costs they have for setting up all the infrastructure. They can only get that back by charging you a quid for something that costs them a penny.

An analogy is pharma companies, which spend tens of billions developing a new drug. The cost of actually making that drug is trivial, but it is all the prior costs that justify the high cost to you.

This is the perfect time to introduce roaming charges since hardly anyone is going overseas anyway. And when we finally are allowed on holiday then we will be so grateful that we won't care about this.

And roaming charges are standard elsewhere anyway. When I go to the US I am charged as follows:

£2 per minute for calls made to or received from the UK
£0.50p per text sent to the UK
£7.20 per MB (capped at £51)

[mutantpoodle]

'''' but most of these companies also have share holders, so consumers getting a 'good deal' is never going to be top of the priority list - hence regulators and legislation.'''

I think you will find that the directors/managemnet benefit FAR more than any shareholders
I agree this move is for profit generation but its not primarily for shareholders
that is of course what managment will suggest (and a few uninformed in the public), but a quick look at and annual report shows who the REAL individual beneficiaries are !

[AF62]

Well, it's probably not cheap to negotiate deals with 27 european countries, and backhaul the traffic to the UK. So I see no intrinsic reason why they shouldn't charge a fee for this, and those that don't require the service don't pay.

But do you think if costs them so much that they need to triple the monthly rate, which is what Vodafone do. Or charge six times the monthly rate for a fortnight away, which is what EE are proposing.

It is price gouging, pure and simple. And our pathetic politicians will do nothing.

Then you might as well criticise the entire model for mobile phone charging. Because a phone call costs next to nothing to the operator. Data costs next to nothing. The reason phone-cos get to charge a lot for calls and data is because of the massive upfront costs they have for setting up all the infrastructure. They can only get that back by charging you a quid for something that costs them a penny.

So with that logic with Vodafone charging £72 a year for unlimited calls and 4GB a data a month in the UK, but if you want to roam in the EU it costs you £180 a year. Even if someone is away on two or three holidays, that (say) 28 days is going to cost them over £100.

Are you really suggesting that it is costing Vodafone £3.50 a day per customer to buy in the EU roaming provision, but it can provide its UK network for 19 pence a day per customer? Pull the other one.

And roaming charges are standard elsewhere anyway. When I go to the US I am charged as follows:

£2 per minute for calls made to or received from the UK
£0.50p per text sent to the UK
£7.20 per MB (capped at £51)

Sounds like you need to look for a better deal unless you like wasting money.

[Lootman]

But do you think if costs them so much that they need to triple the monthly rate, which is what Vodafone do. Or charge six times the monthly rate for a fortnight away, which is what EE are proposing.

It is price gouging, pure and simple. And our pathetic politicians will do nothing.

Then you might as well criticise the entire model for mobile phone charging. Because a phone call costs next to nothing to the operator. Data costs next to nothing. The reason phone-cos get to charge a lot for calls and data is because of the massive upfront costs they have for setting up all the infrastructure. They can only get that back by charging you a quid for something that costs them a penny.

So with that logic with Vodafone charging £72 a year for unlimited calls and 4GB a data a month in the UK, but if you want to roam in the EU it costs you £180 a year. Even if someone is away on two or three holidays, that (say) 28 days is going to cost them over £100.

Are you really suggesting that it is costing Vodafone £3.50 a day per customer to buy in the EU roaming provision, but it can provide its UK network for 19 pence a day per customer? Pull the other one.

You missed my point. I agree it costs VOD next to nothing to provide that. The point is rather that they charge what the market will bear. It is like any business with high fixed initial costs and low marginal costs.

And roaming charges are standard elsewhere anyway. When I go to the US I am charged as follows:

£2 per minute for calls made to or received from the UK
£0.50p per text sent to the UK
£7.20 per MB (capped at £51)

Sounds like you need to look for a better deal unless you like wasting money.

You misunderstand. That is the default roaming cost. I can avoid that by signing up for an overseas roaming plan. But of course that costs something. In practice I avoid the charges by not ringing the UK while there, and by having a cheap local phone instead.