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cold calls re loft insulation

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Bouleversee
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cold calls re loft insulation

#449806

Postby Bouleversee » October 13th, 2021, 1:04 pm

Cold calls claiming to be from the area representative re energy saving wanting to inspect my loft to see if the fibreglass insulation is mouldy and causing condensation and saying that grants are available for the elderly to replace it with a better product are burgeoning again; I have had several this week. These are attempted scams. If you get the number from 1471 and dial it to see who has been calling, you will get a message saying the service cannot be connected. The numbers currently start with 01202 but the following digits change frequently.

I think this topic may have been covered here some tine ago but since it has all started up again in a big way, newcomers to TLF may not be aware so I thought it might be useful to do another alert.

Infrasonic
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Re: cold calls re loft insulation

#449807

Postby Infrasonic » October 13th, 2021, 1:10 pm

Load of similar reports here...https://who-calls.me.uk/area-code/01202

Bouleversee
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Re: cold calls re loft insulation

#449823

Postby Bouleversee » October 13th, 2021, 1:46 pm

Yes, a number of them today from the identical no. which called me this morning. A useful site to go on so thanks for that heads up.

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Re: cold calls re loft insulation

#449826

Postby Watis » October 13th, 2021, 1:56 pm

I have received - and ignored - four recent calls on my landline from similar 01202 numbers.

Perhaps it is the Insulate Britain people taking a more positive approach to getting our houses insulated?

Watis

AsleepInYorkshire
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Re: cold calls re loft insulation

#449836

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » October 13th, 2021, 2:46 pm

I'm sorry but may I be the first to congratulate you on the title of this thread ... obviously absolutely no pun intended :lol:

I know ... I'm heading for the door :lol:

AiY

richfool
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Re: cold calls re loft insulation

#449843

Postby richfool » October 13th, 2021, 3:10 pm

I think I would be inclined to comment: "First of all I need 'phone insulation', to insulate me from getting all these non-solicited sales/scam calls. Perhaps you could help with that first, and whilst you are on the line, can you please give me the contact details of your organisation, so I can pass them on to the police and local trading standards office, which they have asked me to do.".

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Re: cold calls re loft insulation

#449857

Postby Infrasonic » October 13th, 2021, 3:48 pm

richfool wrote:I think I would be inclined to comment: "First of all I need 'phone insulation', to insulate me from getting all these non-solicited sales/scam calls. Perhaps you could help with that first, and whilst you are on the line, can you please give me the contact details of your organisation, so I can pass them on to the police and local trading standards office, which they have asked me to do.".


It's probably all going via cloud based PBX so they could be anywhere in the world geographically, the area codes (Bournemouth in this case) are meaningless...https://www.google.com/search?q=cloud+p ... e&ie=UTF-8

What some of the smarter white night hackers have been doing to the Indian scammers is logging into their PBX accounts and changing all the admin passwords and contact/email details, effectively locking the scammers out of their own phone accounts. There's quite a few YouTube channels dedicated to this - a very enjoyable watch.

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Re: cold calls re loft insulation

#449858

Postby Bouleversee » October 13th, 2021, 3:54 pm

I did pass the info on to the Citizens Advice no. which comes up on warnings about such scams. They in turn pass it on to Trading Standards who I suspect do nothing and suggest you ring Action Fraud who certainly do nothing unless you have fallen victim to fraud. It really is time the govt. made it impossible to insert fake numbers when making calls and found a way of identifying people who did. Would I be right in thinking that all who have received these calls are elderly? I'd like to know how the scammers know how old we are.

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Re: cold calls re loft insulation

#449862

Postby Infrasonic » October 13th, 2021, 4:07 pm

Bouleversee wrote:I did pass the info on to the Citizens Advice no. which comes up on warnings about such scams. They in turn pass it on to Trading Standards who I suspect do nothing and suggest you ring Action Fraud who certainly do nothing unless you have fallen victim to fraud. It really is time the govt. made it impossible to insert fake numbers when making calls and found a way of identifying people who did. Would I be right in thinking that all who have received these calls are elderly? I'd like to know how the scammers know how old we are.


It's technically complicated to stop scam calls and would require the whole world to all agree on the same standards and procedures backed up with similar legislation - so what do you think the chances of that are? :D

Email has a lot of recent protocols to stop spam but because not everyone implements them fully spam is still a major issue.

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Re: cold calls re loft insulation

#449873

Postby Bouleversee » October 13th, 2021, 4:41 pm

Possibly nil but things which are far more difficult have been achieved. It just takes the will to do it and for enough of us to campaign for it and make a nuisance of ourselves until they do. It took me several years to get independent taxation for wives' investment income which you all take for granted now, and indexation of capital gains/losses (I think I still have a file of corres. with Nigel Lawson and others on that topic), albeit that didn't last long because, acc. to Kenneth Clarke, it was being abused. If I had the time and energy I would battle for that again as it is only fair. Where there's a will there's a way!

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Re: cold calls re loft insulation

#449892

Postby mc2fool » October 13th, 2021, 5:35 pm

Infrasonic wrote:It's technically complicated to stop scam calls and would require the whole world to all agree on the same standards and procedures backed up with similar legislation - so what do you think the chances of that are? :D

Classic perfect being the enemy of the good there, Infrasonic! :D

BT could, without all of that, guarantee that the phone number displayed (caller ID) is genuine or display an indication that it doesn't know if it is or not, e.g. by bunging a "?" on the end.

It could start that as a service between BT customers, as it knows for sure what the number of a BT caller is (as that's how it bills them!). It could then extend that to and with other "trusted" suppliers, e.g. TalkTalk, Virgin, etc.

Think about what can be done, rather than about what can't. ;)

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Re: cold calls re loft insulation

#449894

Postby Infrasonic » October 13th, 2021, 5:48 pm

mc2fool wrote:
Infrasonic wrote:It's technically complicated to stop scam calls and would require the whole world to all agree on the same standards and procedures backed up with similar legislation - so what do you think the chances of that are? :D

Classic perfect being the enemy of the good there, Infrasonic! :D

BT could, without all of that, guarantee that the phone number displayed (caller ID) is genuine or display an indication that it doesn't know if it is or not, e.g. by bunging a "?" on the end.

It could start that as a service between BT customers, as it knows for sure what the number of a BT caller is (as that's how it bills them!). It could then extend that to and with other "trusted" suppliers, e.g. TalkTalk, Virgin, etc.

Think about what can be done, rather than about what can't. ;)


We've debated it before and I still disagree I'm afraid. Theoretical v real world.

Look at email for a classic example of what is theoretically possible with all the technical improvements versus what is achieved daily in the real world through poor implementation. Reality bites... :D

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Re: cold calls re loft insulation

#449903

Postby mc2fool » October 13th, 2021, 6:26 pm

Infrasonic wrote:
mc2fool wrote:
Infrasonic wrote:It's technically complicated to stop scam calls and would require the whole world to all agree on the same standards and procedures backed up with similar legislation - so what do you think the chances of that are? :D

Classic perfect being the enemy of the good there, Infrasonic! :D

BT could, without all of that, guarantee that the phone number displayed (caller ID) is genuine or display an indication that it doesn't know if it is or not, e.g. by bunging a "?" on the end.

It could start that as a service between BT customers, as it knows for sure what the number of a BT caller is (as that's how it bills them!). It could then extend that to and with other "trusted" suppliers, e.g. TalkTalk, Virgin, etc.

Think about what can be done, rather than about what can't. ;)


We've debated it before and I still disagree I'm afraid. Theoretical v real world.

Look at email for a classic example of what is theoretically possible with all the technical improvements versus what is achieved daily in the real world through poor implementation. Reality bites... :D

Yeah, yeah. We'll see ..................................... :D

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Re: cold calls re loft insulation

#449909

Postby Infrasonic » October 13th, 2021, 6:48 pm

Concrete real world examples.

On my Android Pixel 3a I can report spam numbers and Google block them. Great, except that like email the scammers just dump the numbers and move on. So I just let unknown numbers ring out or divert to VM and if genuine they'll leave a voicemail and I can ring them back.

I can set a global block/rejection of all withheld/private numbers. Great!
Oh hang on the NHS always ring from behind PBX's with no number displayed - bugger! Not such a great idea then.

I've lost count of the number of times I've explained to my specialists and their secretary's that it is a simple job to set up their PBX with a public switchboard number to keep real office numbers hidden. As long as the same number comes up as in my contacts list problem solved, calls get accepted and other withheld numbers get rejected. I can also add that number to my allow list when in do not disturb mode.
Has anything been done about it by the NHS? Of course not! So global rejection of withheld numbers has to stay off on my mobiles...

Shall I continue or is the point sinking in yet? :D

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Re: cold calls re loft insulation

#449914

Postby mc2fool » October 13th, 2021, 7:05 pm

Infrasonic wrote:I've lost count of the number of times I've explained to my specialists and their secretary's that it is a simple job to ...

Yeah, getting good staff has long been a problem ... :D

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Re: cold calls re loft insulation

#449917

Postby ReformedCharacter » October 13th, 2021, 7:16 pm

Infrasonic wrote:Concrete real world examples.

I can set a global block/rejection of all withheld/private numbers. Great!
Oh hang on the NHS always ring from behind PBX's with no number displayed - bugger! Not such a great idea then.

I've lost count of the number of times I've explained to my specialists and their secretary's that it is a simple job to set up their PBX with a public switchboard number to keep real office numbers hidden. As long as the same number comes up as in my contacts list problem solved, calls get accepted and other withheld numbers get rejected. I can also add that number to my allow list when in do not disturb mode.
Has anything been done about it by the NHS? Of course not! So global rejection of withheld numbers has to stay off on my mobiles...

Shall I continue or is the point sinking in yet? :D

Yes, quite agree. I had a discussion with my local GP practice about their use of Caller ID. They said that they used Number Withheld to ensure that someone else who has access to the stored recently received numbers on the patient's phone couldn't identify that they had had a call from the surgery.

As we know, scammers frequently fake a Caller ID. Unfortunately it seems that the number chosen by a particular scam call scheme used my actual landline number. For a while I was getting about 10 calls a day from people who had received a voicemail telling them that their National Insurance number had been compromised or some variation thereof, and were 'calling me back'. Touch wood, they've stopped. BT couldn't help of course, apart from offering me a new number.

RC

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Re: cold calls re loft insulation

#449927

Postby mc2fool » October 13th, 2021, 7:40 pm

Infrasonic wrote:
mc2fool wrote:
Infrasonic wrote:It's technically complicated to stop scam calls and would require the whole world to all agree on the same standards and procedures backed up with similar legislation - so what do you think the chances of that are? :D

Classic perfect being the enemy of the good there, Infrasonic! :D

BT could, without all of that, guarantee that the phone number displayed (caller ID) is genuine or display an indication that it doesn't know if it is or not, e.g. by bunging a "?" on the end.

It could start that as a service between BT customers, as it knows for sure what the number of a BT caller is (as that's how it bills them!). It could then extend that to and with other "trusted" suppliers, e.g. TalkTalk, Virgin, etc.

Think about what can be done, rather than about what can't. ;)

We've debated it before and I still disagree I'm afraid. Theoretical v real world.

Well, substitute T-Mobile for BT in my comments above and ...

"If you have T-Mobile service and a Galaxy S9, soon you will start seeing “Caller Verified” when calls arrive, if T-Mobile can verify the caller ID matches the real phone number. The Caller Verified message means that the call originated from T-Mobile, and they can confirm that no spoofing or intercepting occurred in placing the call.

Verifying calls relies on a new standard called STIR (Secure Telephone Identity Revisited) and SHAKEN (Signature-based Handling of Asserted information using toKENs). Not to be confused with martini preparation directions, STIR/SHAKEN will allow phone carriers to determine if the number a call identifies with is real. Current caller ID technology doesn’t have any method to determine if the information provided is accurate and STIR/SHAKEN will solve that problem.

And as other carriers implement STIR/SHAKEN, they will work together so that phone calls verification occurs even when they come from a different carrier.
"
https://www.howtogeek.com/402141/how-phone-companies-are-finally-verifying-caller-id-numbers/

How about that, exactly as I'd "prophesied"! ;) (I'd honestly no idea about STIR/SHAKEN before this moment!).

So, there you go. Real world. :lol: And...

"FCC rules require providers to implement STIR/SHAKEN in the Internet Protocol (IP) portions of their networks by June 30, 2021, so that Americans can benefit from this important technology and start to have faith in their phone calls again. "
https://www.fcc.gov/call-authentication

So, it's up and running in the US, and as for the UK ... https://commsrisk.com/uk-regulator-hints-at-considering-stir-shaken/

Coming to a phone near you sometime ... well, sometime. :D

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Re: cold calls re loft insulation

#449931

Postby Infrasonic » October 13th, 2021, 7:47 pm

My local GP surgery doesn't withhold their numbers, both the switchboard and my GP's office number both come up as they are saved contacts. What they have done during lock down is gone text crazy - up to four or five a day telling me all sorts of trivia about how their phones are down, use the NHS app et al. From one extreme to the other...

I forgot the best bit about the specialists. One of them has moved to a completely new building miles away for their entire dept. during lock down. New phone numbers and everything. Uh oh...

They get the appointments team to ring from a withheld number to arrange a date, send a confirmation letter and then ring the day before to confirm the appointment.

The first call went straight to voicemail for some reason (my withheld divert was off) so I rang them back on the provided number. It rang out and then a message stated that there was no voicemail service available on this number(!) - please ring back. So I did - repeatedly- for several days with the same result.

They sent a letter in the end with a date stating it would be a phone appointment - then the day before rang me to ask if I was attending in person at the new building I've never been to before. I declined and said I'd do it over the phone as it was raining 24/7 that week.
Keystone cops doesn't get close...

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Re: cold calls re loft insulation

#449932

Postby mc2fool » October 13th, 2021, 7:50 pm

P.S.

"In the USA, where more calls are carried over VoIP networks, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) has mandated that phone companies introduce caller authentication by 30 June 2021, using a particular technical standard called STIR/SHAKEN. The implementation of CLI authentication in the UK using this approach will take more time as it is only effective when voice services are migrated to IP, which is due to be completed in the UK by the mid-2020s. We are working with industry to explore whether some aspects of CLI authentication could be introduced sooner."

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0025/216439/nuisance-calls-joint-action-plan-2021.pdf

Still disagree, or is the point sinking in yet? :D

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Re: cold calls re loft insulation

#449934

Postby Infrasonic » October 13th, 2021, 8:00 pm

mc2fool wrote:P.S.

"In the USA, where more calls are carried over VoIP networks, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) has mandated that phone companies introduce caller authentication by 30 June 2021, using a particular technical standard called STIR/SHAKEN. The implementation of CLI authentication in the UK using this approach will take more time as it is only effective when voice services are migrated to IP, which is due to be completed in the UK by the mid-2020s. We are working with industry to explore whether some aspects of CLI authentication could be introduced sooner."

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0025/216439/nuisance-calls-joint-action-plan-2021.pdf

Still say disagree, or is the point sinking in yet? :D


I've already seen all that stuff as I stay current on the tech news like you do :D

Hasn't Rishi just signed an agreement with a load of other countries to agree a minimum corporation tax rate that they will all definitely implement and stick to without any loopholes, "honest gov. swear on my mothers life, seriously we won't do sovereign arbitrage".. :D

I will believe it all when I see it in action, working perfectly as intended without the 'NHS' element wrecking the whole thing... :twisted:


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