Time to move from iphone to Android?

[pje16]

I have always had an Android phone
my BIG bug bear with Apple is all he oversized photos that I get sent - 3-4mb in size and often over 6ft high. WHY.... no mobile screen is that size
Apple will not let you change the camera photo dimensions
Apart from they are so overpriced, you can get Android equivalent for 50-60 % of the cost of an iPhone

[PhaseThree]

As a counterpoint - Here is why I wouldn't go near this phone.
It currently costs £379, it was released in July 2021 with three years of security updates. This means this phone will cease to be secure in 2 years time.
You will have paid £190 per year for your secure Android phone.

I paid around £700 for my latest Iphone, Yes it's a lot but I can expect 7 years security support. So my secure Iphone costs me £100 per year.

On top of this Oneplus run a heavily modified version of Android (why) called OxygenOS, created, developed, supported and updated from China.
Current security audits of the software are clean but all it takes is one update to change that.

I take it that you didn't follow scotia's link.

For Qualcomm, it means that all phones with Qualcomm Snapdragon chipsets, beginning with the Snapdragon 888 that appeared on many 2021 flagships, will get four years of security updates and three Android version upgrades.

Qualifying phones include the Xiaomi Mi 11, the OnePlus 9 and, well, the Samsung Galaxy S21.

By my math £379 / 4 is less than £100.

But then I really doubt that your point was about the relative cost. I pointed out that my phone cost about £100, so clearly having kept it 2 years that's £50pa, 3 and it's down to £33pa.
I've just checked the phone website and there is a rom update available, which I'm currently downloading.

Of course it's a phone that's made in China, though in this case by a chinees company rather than an American one.

You pay's your money and makes your choice.

Oh dear - I take it you didn't read much of the thread at all.

My response was specifically regarding Bulldog's recommendation of the Openplus Nord 2 5g. A phone released in July 2021 with three years security updates.
This phone uses a Mediatek chipset not the Qualcomm chipset in the linked thread so doesn't get the four year security updates noted by Scotia.
The Oneplus 9 that does get this costs around £550. This device was release in March 2021 so if you were to buy one today you would have less than three years of security updates left.

By my maths this would cost around £180/yr

My point is that total cost of ownership should be taken into account - not just the headline price.

[PhaseThree]

As a counterpoint - Here is why I wouldn't go near this phone.
It currently costs £379, it was released in July 2021 with three years of security updates. This means this phone will cease to be secure in 2 years time.
You will have paid £190 per year for your secure Android phone.

I paid around £700 for my latest Iphone, Yes it's a lot but I can expect 7 years security support. So my secure Iphone costs me £100 per year.

On top of this Oneplus run a heavily modified version of Android (why) called OxygenOS, created, developed, supported and updated from China.
Current security audits of the software are clean but all it takes is one update to change that.

I take it that you didn't follow scotia's link.

For Qualcomm, it means that all phones with Qualcomm Snapdragon chipsets, beginning with the Snapdragon 888 that appeared on many 2021 flagships, will get four years of security updates and three Android version upgrades.

Qualifying phones include the Xiaomi Mi 11, the OnePlus 9 and, well, the Samsung Galaxy S21.

By my math £379 / 4 is less than £100.

But then I really doubt that your point was about the relative cost. I pointed out that my phone cost about £100, so clearly having kept it 2 years that's £50pa, 3 and it's down to £33pa.
I've just checked the phone website and there is a rom update available, which I'm currently downloading.

Of course it's a phone that's made in China, though in this case by a chinees company rather than an American one.

You pay's your money and makes your choice.

Not that it matters really, the point I was making really is that you don't have to spend a £1000 or near that to get a high quality device in today's market. It happens the Nord2 is available for around £300, but there's dozens and dozens out there to choose from. Yes they're made in China.

iPhone? They're made by a Taiwanese company, Foxconn in their Shenzen factory, China (and other companies in China too).

I am totally aware of possible back doors hidden inside Chinese electronics. I think it's probably likely that a high proportion of Chinese electronics have well hidden deliberate security problems. Sadly, if you want a modern electronic device, it's virtually impossible to avoid the Chinese supply chain. It's just one more aspect of our lives where Western democracy has handed over ultimate control of our lives to the Chinese communist party.

I have absolutely no problem with Chinese manufactured hardware - much of what I have worked on in my career is manufactured there, usually to pretty high quality. I am a lot less sanguine regarding software, particularly software that can be remotely updated with little or no user input. The ability for malevolent actors to get involved is significant.

[CliffEdge]

It's no use locking the stable door after the horse has been nicked. You save a couple of hundred quid on an unsafe phone and someone rinses you of hundreds of grands, you might feel a bit sad.

[stevensfo]

As a counterpoint - Here is why I wouldn't go near this phone.
It currently costs £379, it was released in July 2021 with three years of security updates. This means this phone will cease to be secure in 2 years time.
You will have paid £190 per year for your secure Android phone.

I paid around £700 for my latest Iphone, Yes it's a lot but I can expect 7 years security support. So my secure Iphone costs me £100 per year.

On top of this Oneplus run a heavily modified version of Android (why) called OxygenOS, created, developed, supported and updated from China.
Current security audits of the software are clean but all it takes is one update to change that.

I take it that you didn't follow scotia's link.

For Qualcomm, it means that all phones with Qualcomm Snapdragon chipsets, beginning with the Snapdragon 888 that appeared on many 2021 flagships, will get four years of security updates and three Android version upgrades.

Qualifying phones include the Xiaomi Mi 11, the OnePlus 9 and, well, the Samsung Galaxy S21.

By my math £379 / 4 is less than £100.

But then I really doubt that your point was about the relative cost. I pointed out that my phone cost about £100, so clearly having kept it 2 years that's £50pa, 3 and it's down to £33pa.
I've just checked the phone website and there is a rom update available, which I'm currently downloading.

Of course it's a phone that's made in China, though in this case by a chinees company rather than an American one.

You pay's your money and makes your choice.

Not that it matters really, the point I was making really is that you don't have to spend a £1000 or near that to get a high quality device in today's market. It happens the Nord2 is available for around £300, but there's dozens and dozens out there to choose from. Yes they're made in China.

iPhone? They're made by a Taiwanese company, Foxconn in their Shenzen factory, China (and other companies in China too).

I am totally aware of possible back doors hidden inside Chinese electronics. I think it's probably likely that a high proportion of Chinese electronics have well hidden deliberate security problems. Sadly, if you want a modern electronic device, it's virtually impossible to avoid the Chinese supply chain. It's just one more aspect of our lives where Western democracy has handed over ultimate control of our lives to the Chinese communist party.

The Chinese have a lot of catching-up to do. I think that the 'ultimate control of our lives' was handed over long ago to our local councils, school trusts, NHS trusts, GCHQ, CIA, FBI, CCTVs, Face-recognition software, tabloid press, loyalty cards, contactless cards, Breakfast TV, dumbing-down, endless mindless TV shows etc.

The Chinese are probably learning an awful lot about control of society from the UK!

Steve

[Infrasonic]

If you want Android without the Google overlord bit then research 'degoogled' phones (ironically Google Pixels do well here).
There are also alternative cloud service ecosystems springing up to make it easier to stay away from the big three of Apple/MS/Google - If you are willing to put the time into it.

[pje16]

My questions really are about the ease of backing up and data transfer

our Android phone will normally be used with a Google account.
By default stuff on your phone is backed up to the cloud there (I think you get 15GB free).

My (andrioid) phone (have had them for over a decade) is not backed up by default to the cloud
I use https://wondershare-mobilego.software.informer.com/
an excellent bit of kit (IMHO)

[Urbandreamer]

It's no use locking the stable door after the horse has been nicked. You save a couple of hundred quid on an unsafe phone and someone rinses you of hundreds of grands, you might feel a bit sad.

Are you not making at least two presumptions without evidence.

1) that a cheap chinese phone is unsafe.
2) that a phone with American software is safe.

Wasn't there some talk about PRISM surveillance program?

Anyway Mr Snowden recommends running Graphene
https://grapheneos.org/
You can install it on the pixel 3 from 2018. So 4 years old. Though they do recommend something a bit more modern.
Then again I did post a link to a review of secure phones.

Most people don't want or need that sort of security.

Oh here is an interesting piece
https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrew ... 398c76142c
Sure the hacker had physical access to the Iphone, but he was easily able to drain bank accounts.

Like I already said, don't be complacent. It's your second assumption that concerns me, rather than the first.

Statements like this make me shudder.

There’s no limit to how much you can pay in one transaction. But some retailers might set their own limits for Apple Pay payments.

https://www.nationwide.co.uk/help/payme ... pay-guide/

My bank refuses large debit card transactions suspecting fraud.

[PhaseThree]

It's no use locking the stable door after the horse has been nicked. You save a couple of hundred quid on an unsafe phone and someone rinses you of hundreds of grands, you might feel a bit sad.

Are you not making at least two presumptions without evidence.

1) that a cheap chinese phone is unsafe.
2) that a phone with American software is safe.

.

Neither are totally secure - Anyone who tells you that millions of lines of code have no issues has either never written software or is just lying.

If someone seriously wants to hack your phone you haven't got a chance. The richest guy in the world got hacked, but it took a state to do it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Bezos_phone_hacking

As regards cheap Chinese phones.....
https://arstechnica.com/information-tec ... ne-models/

[xeny]

Having had to support two kids school iPads without having a Mac computer I really felt like I had signed over my life
It felt like you are expected to be "all in" to the eco-system if you wanted to do everyday tasks - as though I was literally the product in a way I've never felt with any other tech supplier

-sd

I have an iPad mini, but no kids to support - what kind of aspect? It seems to deal with Office/Teams/gmail well enough or is it something kid specifc?

I've a Mac laptop, but that's mostly because I wanted the battery life/performance/Unix combo an M1 MacBook Air offered - I don't think I've ever used it in conjunction with the iPad.

[xeny]

In particular, it was interesting to hear in The News that Google have announced they will be deleting the location data they collect and make available from women who use abortion clinics, in order to protect them from the risk of reprisals. (Or something along those lines.)

I had vaguely realised phones track your location and it was probably all stored somewhere, but not to the extent it was available to the public.

I think the concern is that it might be requested by a court in a no abortion state to show you left the state to get an abortion, so not publicly available per se.

[Infrasonic]

https://amiunique.org/

Learn how identifiable you are on the Internet

Help us investigate the diversity of web browsers.
This website aims at studying the diversity of browser fingerprints and providing developers with data to help them design good defenses. Contribute to the efforts by viewing your own browser fingerprint or consult the current statistics of data provided by users around the world!

I tested it out this morning from my Chromebook. Due to the fact I use a lot of customisation and non standard setup I'm very identifiable from my browser fingerprinting. I'll work my way across all my devices and various browsers this week.

https://privacytests.org/

[servodude]

Having had to support two kids school iPads without having a Mac computer I really felt like I had signed over my life
It felt like you are expected to be "all in" to the eco-system if you wanted to do everyday tasks - as though I was literally the product in a way I've never felt with any other tech supplier

-sd

I have an iPad mini, but no kids to support - what kind of aspect? It seems to deal with Office/Teams/gmail well enough or is it something kid specifc?

I've a Mac laptop, but that's mostly because I wanted the battery life/performance/Unix combo an M1 MacBook Air offered - I don't think I've ever used it in conjunction with the iPad.

The main headache was when it would run out of space!
They had them in primary school and iMovie was used a lot for making class projects.
You can delete content happily... but if you want to take an iMovie off the iPad it involves exporting to movie roll; which you can't do because the iPad is full. (Yeah I know I shouldn't want to copy files over USB because "security" but in this circumstance it would have made things a lot simple)

And then there was iTunes on windows.. and woe betide anyone with mp3s from other sources.
They would vanish or iTunes would force you to reset/restore the iPad (and they'd vanish in the process) when all you wanted to do was make space for exporting an iMovie
I know they were sued about it but either let someone upload recordings of their kids music performances or don't: don't take the huff and claim "security"

Ended up with a wifi USB drive thing that we could transfer stuff from the iPad to - and then stuck THAT in the PC.

Possibly could have used more apple cloud space?
Probably shouldn't have expected to use anything that wasn't already in the walled garden?

But the really frustating thing is knowing that the frustration is intentional

[raybarrow]

Hi Folks,

Thanks for all the comments. I had missed the point that IOS is IOS is IOS (for a given version) and Android is Android+mods is Android+other mods.
Also that if you have say IOS15 then you get all the IOS15 updates. Android's update seem to depend on manufactuer. I get the remarks about Qualcomm and Snapdragon.

I changed my refurbsihed iphone (launched 2105 and stuck at IOS12) for a refurbed iphone 8 (launched 2017) to get IOS15. According to Apple the iphone 8 and later should support IOS16.

I tend to turn off as many location and 'nosey' settings as I can without compromising usability. I remember the 'outrage' when Gov suggested we carry ID cards. Now we choose to carry a much more intrusive device of our own free will. We are, by nature, up for supporting initiatives until it impacts on our personal lives.

Need to think a bit more and have a go with a friend's Android. Mrs B's iphone 6 will probably be the next phone to replace and the tech does not interest her, although she was an electronics engineer when she worked for a living. She will want a smartphone that just works. I think I see another iphone coming.

All thinks links have been really interesting, thanks again.

Cheers,
Ray

[Infrasonic]

Hi Folks,

Thanks for all the comments. I had missed the point that IOS is IOS is IOS (for a given version) and Android is Android+mods is Android+other mods.
Also that if you have say IOS15 then you get all the IOS15 updates. Android's update seem to depend on manufactuer. up for supporting initiatives until it impacts on our personal lives...

That's the main reason I have always run pure Android phones, specifically Nexus and now Google Pixels.
Updates at the start of every month, optimisations that other OEM's don't always support et al.
My Pixel 3a started on Android 9 and is now on 12.
iFixit have just announced a collaboration with Google for OEM spares...https://store.ifixit.co.uk/collections/ ... xel?page=2

If you want to flash with an alternative OS then again the Google phones do well. I note the other day that the Ubuntu touch developers are claiming 100% compatibility with Pixel 3a (my current main phone) and decent performance with Nexus 5's ( I have an old one lying around - needs a new battery, £10).

Pixel 6a is my next imminent purchase so I might start experimenting there with my old phones.

[Urbandreamer]

One thing not mentioned is hardware maintainability and choice.
The battery in my phone can be easily replaced by the user with no special tools. £16 from ebay However this means that I should avoid places that I might drop it into water.

Iphone batteries can only be replaced by an Apple citified place.

A replacement touch screen is £10 and I might be willing to attempt to change it myself. If not the there are many places that will do it for you.

The ruggedized phones are available, but I don't think that Apple do one.

All that said, I wouldn't advise starting a move to Android with the wife's phone.

[raybarrow]

Hi Urbandreamer,

All that said, I wouldn't advise starting a move to Android with the wife's phone.

I might be getting old, but thankfully not stupid!

Ray.

[AF62]

I used Android phones since ‘Froyo’ back in 2010, but about three or four years ago changed to Apple.

Why - At the time I wanted to use Three as a network (the other options gave poor coverage) and if I wanted a phone that was guaranteed to work with their WiFi calling or VoLTE then it either needed to be one of their specific Android phones they sold or any iPhone sold by anyone.

The various Android phones I had used over the years - a whole variety - were ‘fine’ but the main thing I noticed was they might get one OS update, but that was it, and security updates only for a couple of years.

Moving to Apple wasn’t without pain (although I was already using an iPad) from the ‘why must I do it that way’ that Apple forces for some things. But for others things were a lot easier - for example currently browsing this on my iPad with my iPhone providing the data connection. Now that is reasonably straightforward with Android to connect a tablet to a phone, but with IOS it is just click with not passwords or anything required.

Sharing photos, webpages, documents with my wife through Airdrop, tracking my suitcase with an AirTag, listening to podcasts synced to my Apple Watch, life just seems a bit easier than with Android.

Are the Apple devices more expensive - sure they are, but in the scheme of things the iPhone 12 I bought last year for £550 will keep me going for three or four years and then I will sell it and buy the latest version. I would expect from past experience I could get a couple of hundred for it, so £100 a year for something I use every day - that’s fine with me.