3rd Party Router?

[GeoffF100]

I am using the PlusNet Hub Zero router that came with my copper wire broadband. (That is not PlusNet's latest router.) The router is located upstairs. I have a recently acquired Bluetooth speaker downstairs:

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/7256596

I have tried driving it from BBC Sounds on my Android phone. Initially, I kept getting long pauses when the signal was lost. I moved my phone to the location that seemed to have the best WiFi reception, and was able to listen for over an hour with no pauses. Unfortunately, the best location seems to be next to the kitchen sink, which is hazardous for my phone. Would buying another router help? I found this:

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/5728882

Some reviews say the coverage is good. Others say that it is not.

[jfgw]

Based upon this review, you could swap it for almost anything and get better speeds,

https://www.expertreviews.co.uk/plusnet/1403635/plusnet-hub-zero-2704n-review

What distances are involved?
Does the 'phone indicate a good signal strength?
Have you tried different channels (set manually)?


Julian F. G. W.

[GeoffF100]

The review says:

"Even with this in mind it’s difficult not to come away from its new Hub Zero 2704n router without feeling rather disappointed. It’s poorly specified, with just 802.11n speeds and single 2.4GHz band support when most other ISP routers have made the leap to dual-band."

It is not helpful to say that the router is bad without telling me how to pick a better one, without paying for things that I do not need.

The router I linked only has 2.4GHz too. It has IEEE 802.11b,IEEE 802.11g and IEEE 802.11n. Nonetheless, IEEE 802.11n is supposed to be best. I read that 2.4GHz is best for range and browsing, and that 5GHz is best for big downloads. 2.5GHz seems to do fine for streaming Radio 4 when I have enough signal.

The WiFI icon on my phone is still not 100% white in the best location. A high proportion of the WiFi icon is black in the poor locations. Can I set channels manually on my Android phone? How would I know which one to set? Will the same channel always be best?

The practical solution here is to put my phone in a plastic bag to protect it from splashes, but this is a good technical question nonetheless.

[BobbyD]

Sanity check: How does the phone perform when put next to the router?

Alternative: Put the money towards a new (and waterproof) phone

Is your home made out of cardboard or three foot thick stone walls? What distance, and how many walls are involved?

Use a wifi analyser app to visualise the congestion on the channel you are using.

Other Alternative: Consider a couple of homeplugs and wireless access point in a position which gives better coverage of the kitchen and other dark areas in the house.

A better router may help, but depending on the problem it may not be the best solution.

Other Other Alternative: Change your broadband and get a more modern router from your new supplier, or phone plus and tell them you are moving unless they give you a router which actually works to a reasonable standard. Depending on prices this might actually make you a small amount of money, but it won't help much if the best solution isn't changing the router.

[Infrasonic]

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/02 ... placement/

Here at Ars, we've spent a lot of time covering how Wi-Fi works, which kits perform the best, and how upcoming standards will affect you. Today, we're going to go a little more basic: we're going to teach you how to figure out how many Wi-Fi access points (APs) you need, and where to put them...

Cont.

[XFool]

Based upon this review, you could swap it for almost anything and get better speeds,

https://www.expertreviews.co.uk/plusnet/1403635/plusnet-hub-zero-2704n-review

Can't comment on the router's performance, but noticed this in the review:

Specifications
Modem: ADSL21+, Wi-Fi standard: 802.11n, Stated speed: Not stated, USB ports: None, Wall mountable: No

The Hub Zero stands up vertically and has two swing-out feet to keep it propped up. With the feet tucked in you can also mount the router to the wall to get it out of the way.

[mc2fool]

I am using the PlusNet Hub Zero router that came with my copper wire broadband. (That is not PlusNet's latest router.)

Can you get them to send you a newer one? These topics on their forum suggest that you can do so when you recontract, and you can just try asking anyway.

https://community.plus.net/t5/My-Router/New-Router-required/td-p/1750360
https://community.plus.net/t5/My-Router/New-Hub-2-Router/m-p/1851158
https://community.plus.net/t5/My-Router/New-router-needed/m-p/1819941

I'd try that before buying one, as their support team may frown on you if you have any problems and don't have a PlusNet supplied router.

If they won't send you one just on request, well I dunno how PlusNet works but with TalkTalk if you have any problems that aren't detectable from the line testers, they tend to just send you a new router first off; I guess it's cheaper than sending a bloke out....

As noted, a WiFi analyser will help you see if you've got any congestion. Assuming you've got a Windows laptop to run it on, this one is perfectly adequate: https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/wifi-analyzer/9NBLGGH33N0N

Finally, a long shot, but have you checked the wifi settings on the router? In particular the transmission power setting, which should be at 100%. Also a wider bandwidth and shorter guard interval will give most throughput but may not be best if you have a low signal to noise or a lot of congestion, so those settings may be worth playing with.

[BullDog]

Not sure of the specific router that PlusNet have provided. When my son had a PlusNet contract he found the router so poor it was virtually unusable in the apartment block he has a flat in. The issue seemed to be that there were so many users the PlusNet supplied router couldn't negotiate it's connection to the exchange. OpenReach confirmed unofficially that his local city centre exchange was fully utilised with no spare capacity at all. Lack of connection was worst at peak times. We had a spare BT HomeHub 5 that we then used instead and it instantly solved the kava of connection issue with the PlusNet router. A different situation than the OP reports but my feeling is that the PlusNet router might be junk and almost any other router could be an improvement.

[XFool]

Not sure of the specific router that PlusNet have provided. When my son had a PlusNet contract he found the router so poor it was virtually unusable in the apartment block he has a flat in. The issue seemed to be that there were so many users the PlusNet supplied router couldn't negotiate it's connection to the exchange. OpenReach confirmed unofficially that his local city centre exchange was fully utilised with no spare capacity at all. Lack of connection was worst at peak times. We had a spare BT HomeHub 5 that we then used instead and it instantly solved the kava of connection issue with the PlusNet router. A different situation than the OP reports but my feeling is that the PlusNet router might be junk and almost any other router could be an improvement.

Not sure I really understand. If the local exchange was congested, it was congested. How would a particular router get around that? Differences in modem chips?

[BullDog]

Not sure of the specific router that PlusNet have provided. When my son had a PlusNet contract he found the router so poor it was virtually unusable in the apartment block he has a flat in. The issue seemed to be that there were so many users the PlusNet supplied router couldn't negotiate it's connection to the exchange. OpenReach confirmed unofficially that his local city centre exchange was fully utilised with no spare capacity at all. Lack of connection was worst at peak times. We had a spare BT HomeHub 5 that we then used instead and it instantly solved the kava of connection issue with the PlusNet router. A different situation than the OP reports but my feeling is that the PlusNet router might be junk and almost any other router could be an improvement.

Not sure I really understand. If the local exchange was congested, it was congested. How would a particular router get around that? Differences in modem chips?

Not an expert but I suggest not all modem/routers are created equally, hardware and firmware. So when there's very little available bandwidth one router will successfully negotiate a connection in preference to another. It's called contention, there's fewer available connections at the exchange than there are potential clients wanting to connect. Hence issues are far worse at peak ttimes.The example PlusNet router was very poor. The BT HomeHub 5 far better at negotiating a connection.

[GrahamPlatt]

If there’s a good signal in the kitchen, you are perfectly placed to bake a Bluetooth Pi.

[Infrasonic]

Not sure of the specific router that PlusNet have provided. When my son had a PlusNet contract he found the router so poor it was virtually unusable in the apartment block he has a flat in. The issue seemed to be that there were so many users the PlusNet supplied router couldn't negotiate it's connection to the exchange. OpenReach confirmed unofficially that his local city centre exchange was fully utilised with no spare capacity at all. Lack of connection was worst at peak times. We had a spare BT HomeHub 5 that we then used instead and it instantly solved the kava of connection issue with the PlusNet router. A different situation than the OP reports but my feeling is that the PlusNet router might be junk and almost any other router could be an improvement.

Not sure I really understand. If the local exchange was congested, it was congested. How would a particular router get around that? Differences in modem chips?

Not an expert but I suggest not all modem/routers are created equally, hardware and firmware. So when there's very little available bandwidth one router will successfully negotiate a connection in preference to another. It's called contention, there's fewer available connections at the exchange than there are potential clients wanting to connect. Hence issues are far worse at peak ttimes.The example PlusNet router was very poor. The BT HomeHub 5 far better at negotiating a connection.

The tech specs on modem/routers vary wildly - putting it bluntly you get what you pay for and many of the ISP supplied routers are built to a price (as they give them out for free...) and will often have deliberately limited advanced settings on the router side to stop know nothings screwing up their LAN networking and then expecting the ISP to sort it out for free...

Upgrading to a newer modem/router will often have more recent protocols implemented, or better optimisation of existing protocols thereby improving down/up bandwidth (there is always a loss to 'overhead'- you'll never get 100% of what is theoretically possible).

A good combination if you can do it is the ISP supplied modem/router in modem only/bridge mode with your own decent third party router (+ WAP's if needed). That way the ISP can control the WAN modem side of things and update settings/firmware dynamically but you retain a router with advanced networking settings to set up Vlans, multiple SSID's et al as needed for your specific situation.

That way you (hopefully) shouldn't void any free support contract terms with your ISP.

[jfgw]

How would I know which one to set? Will the same channel always be best?

You need to log into the router to set the channel. The channels overlap so try channel 1, the highest, and something in the middle (such as channel 6) first. Experiment to see if you can get an improvement.


Julian F. G. W.

[Infrasonic]

How would I know which one to set? Will the same channel always be best?

You need to log into the router to set the channel. The channels overlap so try channel 1, the highest, and something in the middle (such as channel 6) first. Experiment to see if you can get an improvement.


Julian F. G. W.

More recent routers will auto switch wifi channels to find the less congested ones - maybe even several times a day to avoid peak hour issues. If you look at the router logs you should see when it switches. (If router logs are off switch them on, they are extremely useful for problem solving).

Yet another reason to keep at least the router/wifi side of things up to date...

Another tip is (where possible) to set up your client devices to only look for your preferred networks so that they ignore the beacon signals sent out by all the competing wifi networks.
It varies from OS to OS and how up to date they are - so you'll have to search for your specifics.

If you combine that with using the less used higher wifi frequencies (5GHz +) then you'll reduce latency and improve bandwidth - at the expense of 'range'.
The range issue can be improved with zoned WAP's or decent mesh solutions (preferably with cabled backhaul).

All covered in the link I provided upthread...

[GeoffF100]

I have carried out a more careful investigation with my mobile phone. The best signal downstairs seems to toward the far end of the downstairs kitchen work surface, away from the sink. I should not have any problem there. I have lots of other tests I can do with my PC downstairs and Raspberry Pi 4B upstairs. My house is a small modern open plan detached house with chipboard floors and plasterboard walls. The router sits upstairs near the back of the house on one of these:

https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/melltorp-t ... s19011777/

The signal to the kitchen has to pass through the table and through the floor, with the mobile phone more or less directly underneath. I also have a PC with a BrosTrend AC5L WiFi adapter in the adjacent dining area. That is a little further from the router and the signal potentially has the pass though a couple of layers of plaster board, but the router is above the centre of an open arch. The BrosTrend seems to be making a good connection.

The signal to my Raspberry Pi 4B passes through an open door, across the hall and through two layers of plasterboard. I seem to be getting a reasonably good connection with the Pi's internal WiFi, and a better one with the BrosTrend. (I have also got a 10m ethernet cable that I can trail around the house, and a 2m USB extension cable.)

I appear to be getting reasonably good WiFi upstairs and downstairs at the back of the house, and in the middle of the house upstairs. That is good enough. Nonetheless, it would be nice to know if a better router would help. I was hoping for something nice and simple, like a table of routers sorted by price with range measurements under standard conditions, but I do not need to buy anything.

[BobbyD]

The WiFI icon on my phone is still not 100% white in the best location. A high proportion of the WiFi icon is black in the poor locations. Can I set channels manually on my Android phone? How would I know which one to set? Will the same channel always be best?

Image credit: https://androidappsforme.com/wi-fi-anal ... s-android/


App: https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... n_GB&gl=US

[GeoffF100]

I wondered what CCL recommended. This one is cheap and is widely recommended:

https://www.cclonline.com/tl-wr841n-tp- ... e-antenna/

Even cheaper on Amazon. That would not be an expensive experiment.

[Infrasonic]

https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/tools/r ... outer/view

I appreciate you don't want to spend much but the stuff you are linking to is already massively out of date on LAN port speeds (100Mb!), wifi specs et al.

From a security perspective it's a really bad idea to use any networking kit with an active internet connection that doesn't have current firmware updates in place...https://routersecurity.org/othersgripeonrouters.php
Routers are a pinch point being effectively the front door to your LAN.

You'd be better off getting a current second hand router with better specs and having a modicum of future proofing.
There are proper pro dealers on eBay who'll give you a returns or swap policy so you could try something out first.

[Newroad]

Hi GeoffF100.

I've got one of these spare

https://www.expertreviews.co.uk/asus/52247/asus-rt-n66u-dual-band-wireless-n900-gigabit-router-review

which has been excellent (used it to replace the BT Home Hub, which was rubbish). I've only just replaced it as part of going to a FFTP solution.

If you want to try it, I'd be happy enough with you just paying postage - anything above and beyond that would be down to you - e.g. a small donation to MSF. If interested, PM me.

Regards, Newroad

[GeoffF100]

https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/tools/rankers/wifi-router/view

I appreciate you don't want to spend much but the stuff you are linking to is already massively out of date on LAN port speeds (100Mb!), wifi specs et al.

From a security perspective it's a really bad idea to use any networking kit with an active internet connection that doesn't have current firmware updates in place...https://routersecurity.org/othersgripeonrouters.php
Routers are a pinch point being effectively the front door to your LAN.

You'd be better off getting a current second hand router with better specs and having a modicum of future proofing.
There are proper pro dealers on eBay who'll give you a returns or swap policy so you could try something out first.

We need a bit of context here. I have 11 Mb/s copper wire Broadband and only use only one device at a time. Even 100 Mb/s is overkill for me. Fibre is now becoming almost as cheap as copper, so that is likely to change. Nonetheless, routers will improve over time. Security is a potential concern. When I looked about a year back, my router was rated as the best ISP router from a security point of view. Currently, that router is doing OK, thanks to the BrosTrend WiFi adapter.