Google vs Apple Music for offline use

[Julian]

I’m considering signing up for a streaming service to broaden my musical horizons discover more new music but I’m still basically old school. I like to buy and own music that I really like, not least because a lot of my listening is on the move where I either don’t have access to a data network or don’t want to chew up my data (or battery life), so for a lot of my listening time my phone is basically an iPod with my entire purchased collection on it.

Because of the above I am particularly interested in the convenience of downloading music to one’s phone (I currently use an iPhone), both initially and when upgrading a phone.

I am running a free trial of Google Play music and I like it but as far as I can see downloading my collection would involve uploading everything to Google (that’s no issue) and then going to each album in turn when Zi am on my home WiFi and selecting the download-to-device option. Maybe there is a multi-select feature that I missed in the iPhone app that would make it a bit easier but, even without that, I suppose I would be willing to do that for hundreds of albums as a one-off exercise but for an iPhone as far as I can see I would need to do it again whenever I upgrade my phone (I don’t like setting up a new phone via restore-from-backup, I prefer to set up from scratch every 2 or 3 years when I do a phone upgrade) which makes it much more of a pain. Maybe if I ever change to an Android phone with an SD card it would be easier if I could keep my Google Play downloaded library on the storage card and have a new install on a new phone pick it up but without access to an Android phone I’m not sure if that is possible.

As for Apple Music I haven’t taken out a free trial to that yet. I will do but in the meantime I’m wondering whether anyone else has the same “it’s so cool/useful to have my entire collection on my phone” attitude as me and might have gone through the same explorations that I am embarking on. If anyone has then I would be really interested to know what you discovered in your explorations and what final decision you made.

- Julian (being dragged kicking and screaming into the streaming age)

[swill453]

Maybe if I ever change to an Android phone with an SD card it would be easier if I could keep my Google Play downloaded library on the storage card and have a new install on a new phone pick it up but without access to an Android phone I’m not sure if that is possible.

'Tis but a trifle!

1. Have music <somewhere>.
2. Drag and drop entire collection to folder of choice on Android phone.
3. Play with app of choice.
4. Curse all the time you spent fighting Apple/iOS/iTunes/whatever.

(repeat all of the above with your photo collection)

Scott.

[Julian]

Maybe if I ever change to an Android phone with an SD card it would be easier if I could keep my Google Play downloaded library on the storage card and have a new install on a new phone pick it up but without access to an Android phone I’m not sure if that is possible.

'Tis but a trifle!

1. Have music <somewhere>.
2. Drag and drop entire collection to folder of choice on Android phone.
3. Play with app of choice.
4. Curse all the time you spent fighting Apple/iOS/iTunes/whatever.

(repeat all of the above with your photo collection)

Scott.

Indeed. If I ever do it that will be the biggest single reason why I jump from iPhone to Android. Being able to do the above and not needing to install the horrible iTunes software on my PC is compelling plus there’s also the fact that SD cards can move between phones on an upgrade so no need to rebuy 128GB or 256GB of very expensive storage on every phone upgrade. Right now it’s my familiarity and comfort with all the iOS apps that I use that is keeping me on iOS. With basic Android phones so cheap now maybe I should get a £50 one from Amazon to mess around with and explore what Android apps I might move to if I did jump off the iOS ship so that I could make a quick and smooth transition if I do choose to make the leap.

One thing I will give iTunes and the Apple Music ecosystem credit for though is that it does support custom sort tags so organising one’s music collection as one wants is possible. I see multi-year threads on the Google Music feedback forum with hundreds of people asking for even the most basic of extra sort options let alone custom sort tags and absolutely zero indication that Google is listening.

- Julian

[superFoolish]

Is there a reason that you excluded Spotify? We (my family) use it, and consider it to be good value for the family plan*. Very easy to download music / audio that you want to store on your phone for offline playing, which is how I used to listen to most of my music / audio.

Now that I have a decent mobile plan (16Gb for the equivalent of about GBP10 per month), I don't download music any more.

* In Australia we seem to get a very good deal with Spotify Premium for Family; its AUD$17.99 = GBP10 approx, whereas the family plan is GBP14.99 in the UK, which seems somewhat expensive to me.

[Julian]

Is there a reason that you excluded Spotify? We (my family) use it, and consider it to be good value for the family plan*. Very easy to download music / audio that you want to store on your phone for offline playing, which is how I used to listen to most of my music / audio.

Now that I have a decent mobile plan (16Gb for the equivalent of about GBP10 per month), I don't download music any more.

* In Australia we seem to get a very good deal with Spotify Premium for Family; its AUD$17.99 = GBP10 approx, whereas the family plan is GBP14.99 in the UK, which seems somewhat expensive to me.

Thanks but sadly yes, there is a reason why I excluded Spotify. I spend 5 months each year in South Africa and Spotify isn't available in SA at the moment. I don't want to jump through VPN hoops to get access since that can be tricky if the provider can detect well known VPNs (e.g. as Netflix does). Given that both Apple and Google music streaming services are available in SA and Spotify isn't exactly a small player I would hope that it will enter the SA market soon but for now it isn't an option. One beauty of streaming services though is that there isn't really any lockin, except maybe for time invested in telling the service one's likes and dislikes to tune the recommendations, so I can always start with Google or Apple and jump ship to Spotify if/when available and if/when desired.

You might not be as OCD as me but, in case this is a thing for you or a family member, how is Spotify for sorting things? I'm showing my age again but I'm still an album-oriented guy so I view my collection as a virtual representation of how my CD (and LP before it) collection used to look, i.e always viewed as albums sorted by "<Artist surname>,<Artist first name>, <Album Year of Release>" which I do all through a single custom album sort tag in iTunes (and on my Logitech Media Server).

- Julian

[HowardRoark]

I'm a music digital streaming refusenik! I guess I just don't want to spend, over a year, more than what I'd spend on CDs anyway.

All of my music is held on iTunes (just 5 digital song purchases!) on the laptop and backed up to an old iPod (120gb) though how much longer it will last I don't know. I also have a couple of old iPod Nanos for music I listen to regularly and take out to the gym/running in all weathers (which I wouldn't want to use my iPhone for!). I recently bought what seemed to be the last remaining Nano in the UK while being stripped from the shelves.

Eventually these Nanos and the iPod will die but I'll probably stick with iTunes. Looks like I'll then have to move to the next cheapest option for music on the go: iPod Touch (or other MP3 alternative).

I do like the idea of digital music availability (less clutter, possibly wider choice) but do have a problem with being tied in to a monthly cost for as long as I want to listen to music in my lifetime without ownership. That's clearly the way the world is going . . .

If I buy a CD for a one-off cost I can share it, play it on different media and if for any reason my uploaded iTunes got wiped I can start again easily enough elsewhere (something I had to do when Sony's MP3 music experiment got ditched . . . mini-disks?).

[torata]

I recently bought what seemed to be the last remaining Nano in the UK while being stripped from the shelves.

Eventually these Nanos and the iPod will die but I'll probably stick with iTunes. Looks like I'll then have to move to the next cheapest option for music on the go: iPod Touch (or other MP3 alternative).

For me it's a mindset thing about feeling the need to physically own the music. But another reason why I also stick with iTunes is that I tend to become paralysed by the massive amount of choice there is with digital streaming.

Regarding Nanos, I recently had to replace mine and was shocked to discover they've stopped making them and I had to buy on-line from specialist retailers, where the prices (in the country where I live) were 50% higher than when they were stocked. New Shuffles were about 3¬4 times the retail price.

torata

[Julian]

I do like the idea of digital music availability (less clutter, possibly wider choice) but do have a problem with being tied in to a monthly cost for as long as I want to listen to music in my lifetime without ownership. That's clearly the way the world is going . . .

If I buy a CD for a one-off cost I can share it, play it on different media and if for any reason my uploaded iTunes got wiped I can start again easily enough elsewhere (something I had to do when Sony's MP3 music experiment got ditched . . . mini-disks?).

I'm actually the same. I'm not looking at a media streaming service as an alternative to buying music but more as an annual fee for discovering new music which might involve a fair number of listens before purchasing.

When I come to purchase I would love to then be able to hit the buy button on whatever music service I am subscribed to for the instant delivery and convenience of no physical clutter (CDs) but I don't think what I want is out there yet at what I consider a realistic price. I have no issues with iTunes or Google Play purchases for my mobile device but I only want to buy something once and I have a very expensive hi-fi system at home where I want uncompressed audio. Until Apple or Google (or maybe Spotify if that comes to South Africa) or whatever I choose offers at least CD quality downloads at CD-like prices then I think I need to stick with my current buying process which is to buy physical CDs, rip them to FLAC, carefully craft the sort tags and album artwork, and then create a compressed AAC copy for my mobile device. I end up with two directory trees for my music, one containing my FLAC "originals" and the other directory tree containing my AAC copies for download to my mobile phone which works well for me.

- Julian

[Gaggsy]

I'm not looking at a media streaming service as an alternative to buying music but more as an annual fee for discovering new music

Interesting. A lot depends on your musical tastes. Mine is not mainstream so where to discover new music?

In my youth and through university it came from my friends and contemporaries. This was before the internet so new releases were found through music magazines and record shops. The odd 'indie' record would find its way onto mainstream radio and you could branch out from there.

However, over time, the opportunity to share new discoveries with friends diminished greatly and so I'd look for new releases by old favourite artists. That's OK, but the field became narrower and narrower. You can understand why some people get stuck in a particular decade of music.

Come the age of the internet, I discovered a thing called Pandora which used some whizzy algorithm to find a similar track to the one you'd just listened to. That threw up some interesting new music that I hadn't heard before. Wonderful, but sadly it was withdrawn from the UK.

Lastfm was another site that I used. It showed you who else was listening to the same music as you. You could then go off and investigate other stuff your lastfm 'friends' were listening to. Very handy for finding new music but again, they changed the site and, in my opinion, it lost its value.

My current 'go to' place to discover new things that I like is Radio Paradise - http://www.radioparadise.com
It's a 24hr radio station that streams at up to 192kpbs and there's no adverts, no inane chatter, just perfectly curated music. if you don't like the current track you hit the PSD (play something different) button.
What's more, if you have the app on your phone you can cache chunks of music to listen offline. I can't praise it enough. I've discovered so many great artists through this station I would never have heard of without it.

Your tastes will no doubt differ to mine but maybe there's a similar station/app out there for you too?

Happy hunting!

[Julian]

I'm not looking at a media streaming service as an alternative to buying music but more as an annual fee for discovering new music

Interesting. A lot depends on your musical tastes. Mine is not mainstream so where to discover new music?
...
My current 'go to' place to discover new things that I like is Radio Paradise - http://www.radioparadise.com
It's a 24hr radio station that streams at up to 192kpbs and there's no adverts, no inane chatter, just perfectly curated music. if you don't like the current track you hit the PSD (play something different) button.
What's more, if you have the app on your phone you can cache chunks of music to listen offline. I can't praise it enough. I've discovered so many great artists through this station I would never have heard of without it.

Your tastes will no doubt differ to mine but maybe there's a similar station/app out there for you too?

Happy hunting!

Thanks Gaggsy. I'm sounding like my late parents now but, given that I read something today that hip hop & R&B has just overtaken rock as the predominant genre in the USA (not sure of the source or how they measured it but I can believe it) plus the heavy sprinkling of mindless pop that also seems to pervade popular culture, my tastes are definitely not mainstream either. I'm also getting a bit bored of too many sound-alike indie bands. I gave Radio Paradise a very brief listen just now before having to go and and do other stuff and, albeit based on a very brief encounter so far, I am mightily impressed. Many thanks for the pointer, it is definitely worthy of further investigation.

Maybe I also need to buy an Amazon Echo or Google Home device so that I can say "<Device>, add <name-of-artist-I-just-heard-and-liked> to my new music list" so that I can actually remember new stuff that I hear and like. OK, it's a tenuous excuse to buy a new gadget but it's got me convinced.

- Julain

[Gaggsy]

Maybe I also need to buy an Amazon Echo or Google Home device so that I can say "<Device>, add <name-of-artist-I-just-heard-and-liked> to my new music list" so that I can actually remember new stuff that I hear and like.

If you create an account on Radio Paradise you can rate the tracks as you listen to them - from 1: Sucko-Barfo to 10: Godlike. You can then review your favourites at a later date.

As far as new gadgets go I recently bought an Amazon Fire Stick and there's a Radio Paradise app for it so you can listen to the music through your TV while watching their HD picture slideshow player. Don't know how they do it but the pictures are somehow related to the song being played.

Here's my top 8s, 9s and 10s - obviously affected by when, where and the mood I was in when I last listened to them!
Now some of these I would never have found without RP.

10 - Etta James - At Last
10 - Wilco - Can't Stand It
10 - Gladys Knight & the Pips - Midnight Train to Georgia
9 - James Dapogny's Chicago Jazz Band - Caravan
9 - The Staple Singers - Respect Yourself
9 - Sinéad O'Connor - Downpressor Man
9 - Aimee Mann - Save Me
9 - Ben Howard - Old Pine
9 - Elvis Costello - 45
9 - Sade - No Ordinary Love
9 - Talking Heads - Listening Wind
9 - New Order - Ceremony
9 - All India Radio - Four Three
9 - Melody Gardot - Who Will Comfort Me
9 - Genesis - Firth Of Fifth
9 - David Bowie - Ashes to Ashes
9 - Peter Gabriel - Solsbury Hill
9 - Manu Dibango - Dikalo
9 - World Party - Is It Like Today?
9 - Sharon Jones & The Dap-Kings - 100 Days, 100 Nights
9 - Portishead - Sour Times
9 - Death Cab For Cutie - Cath
9 - Al Green - Take Me To The River
8 - Gustavo Santaolalla - Deportation/Iguazu
8 - Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds - Nature Boy
8 - Shriekback - All Lined Up
8 - Fink - Warm Shadow
8 - Elvis Costello - Hidden Charms
8 - Cake - Shadow Stabbing
8 - Gregory Alan Isakov - That Moon Song
8 - Peter Gabriel - Burn You Up Burn You Down
8 - Nik Kershaw - Wounded
8 - The Veils - Train with No Name
8 - LHB - We Live in Cities
8 - Fran Healy - Sing Me to Sleep (w/ Neko Case)
8 - Junip - Chickens
8 - Fountains Of Wayne - Sick Day
8 - Talking Heads - Wild Wild Life
8 - John Martyn - Solid Air
8 - Björk - Play Dead
8 - Fink - This Is The Thing
8 - Kathleen Edwards - Goodnight, California
8 - Andrew Bird - Desperation Breeds
8 - Guster - Ruby Falls
8 - Choir of Young Believers - Hollow Talk
8 - Cake - Love You Madly
8 - Cloud Cult - The Mission: Unexplainable Stories

[Julian]

Maybe I also need to buy an Amazon Echo or Google Home device so that I can say "<Device>, add <name-of-artist-I-just-heard-and-liked> to my new music list" so that I can actually remember new stuff that I hear and like.

If you create an account on Radio Paradise you can rate the tracks as you listen to them - from 1: Sucko-Barfo to 10: Godlike. You can then review your favourites at a later date.

As far as new gadgets go I recently bought an Amazon Fire Stick and there's a Radio Paradise app for it so you can listen to the music through your TV while watching their HD picture slideshow player. Don't know how they do it but the pictures are somehow related to the song being played.

Here's my top 8s, 9s and 10s - obviously affected by when, where and the mood I was in when I last listened to them!
Now some of these I would never have found without RP.
...

Yet again, many thanks Gaggsy. I've signed up and discovered the rating system. I'm listening via the Android app installed on my NVidia Shield TV playing into my TV & sound system so I do get to see the slideshow.

When you said that your tastes weren't mainstream I did wonder how non-mainstream they might be (e.g. listening exclusively to Mongolian throat singers and then only if it's in 11/8 time and the key of D# minor of course) but I see from your top 8/9/10s that there is a big overlap between your tastes with mine. I must explore the ones on your list that I don't recognise (about half of them).

- Julian (Radio Paradise playing in the background as I type)

[Gaggsy]

Glad to be of help.

It's a wonderful station - spread the word!

[WilliamRobertson]

Apple Music is able to offer a lot for the money, including 100 million tracks and high audio quality. Yes, it has hi-res lossless, spatial audio albums, plus a new classical music app at no extra charge. With an Apple Music subscription, you can download music for offline playback, if you cancel it, you will lose access to downloaded songs from the Apple Music service. In this case, you can try AMusicSoft Apple Music Converter to keep tracks as MP3 and keep them outside the platform, so you don’t need to open the Apple Music app or subscribe to Apple Music to access the music database anymore!

[formoverfunction]

I don't use either, I am still a buy and own music person, so this my go to list based on ownership first:

My own music on Volumio, installed on a Pi, I have a DAC and speakers connected, but I also use an http stream that I collect on other devices. If am in the loft conversion or shed!

Bandcamp, can be installed in volumio or used via a web browser, and allows you to buy the tracks, but also stream them on your devices - https://bandcamp.com/ You used to be able to download if you installed their app. Not sure if that's the case now. They can of course be purchased and imported, but you also find that some record labels provide samplers which can be downloaded for free.

Here's an example https://recordkicks.bandcamp.com/album/ ... kicks-10th Digital album, free!

and another https://brownswoodrecordings.bandcamp.c ... st-of-2019

Jamendo, like Bandcamp, but a free model - https://www.jamendo.com Tracks can be downloaded and imported into Apple's Music. https://www.jamendo.com They are new artists on Jamendo, so expect varying quality, but there's also sometimes legacy recording of interesting artists. Like Allen Stones, from when he started out. I have quite few albums from over the years from lots of different artists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Stone

Spotify, can be used with Volumio etc, but I have a free subscrition sitting inside a Firefox profile to keep it seperate to my general browsing and work web https://spotify.com/ Streaming only in that mode.

There is one really great service from Apple I do love, iTunesMatch, you upload your own tracks and Apple matches them and provides new clean versions or uploads them if they can't be matched. It's under £30 quid a year. I find combining that with Bandcamp, Jamendo and Spotify covers most basis for me. I usually buy my music from Apple, Amazon or Bandcamp. Apple not being my first option, unless it's strikingly cheaper.

So I have my historical collection on my iPhones with "match" which can be download or stream and includes tracks imported from Bandcamp and Jamendo and bought from Amazon.