New boiler gas use

[Mike4]

So you still have quite a way to go before you break even on the cost of the new boiler & rads ?

A quick note for anyone here with a warm air heating system. I repair and service a lot of warm air systems and they are time consuming and therefore expensive to maintain. But people like them and swallow the maintenance costs as they generally like the speed with which it responds and absence of the need to find wall space for radiators.

A few years ago however, it became possible to connect up and run an existing warm air heating system from a conventional water-filled gas combi boiler. Johnson and Starley now market a 'water-to-air' adaptor to fit in place of the old or obsolete warm air boiler, which is powered by pretty much any combi boiler you choose, and continues to blow warm air from your existing warm air vents.

http://www.johnsonandstarley.co.uk/products/warm-air-heat-interface

[ivahunch]

Starting in 2025, low-carbon heating systems will be installed in all new build homes. So would it be unwise to think of replacing a gas boiler at the moment until low carbon better alternatives become more available?

[richlist]

My understanding is that gas boilers are so last year and the main reasons people have them are.....

* They are currently cheaper than air sourced heat pump systems for a whole house.
* The Gov ban on gas boiler installations has not yet been introduced.
* It requires less effort to arrange a new boiler than an air sourced heat pump.

[Mike4]

Starting in 2025, low-carbon heating systems will be installed in all new build homes. So would it be unwise to think of replacing a gas boiler at the moment until low carbon better alternatives become more available?

I like a man with optimism and a sense of humour.

'Early adoptors' tend to pay through the nose for what rapidly turns out to be not particularly good engineering. My view is get your new gas boiler now while you can, as for the first 5 to 10 years of mandatory heat pumps, they may well prove to be a complete farce judging by the risibly poor quality of the first crop of condensing boilers sold from around 1998 to 2010. Then you can be heating with gas while the heating industry refines the designs for domestic heat pumps into products that actually suit the purpose and all the wrinkles are ironed out.

And buyers won't be able to revert to a gas boiler in their new builds in the interim as there will (presumably) be no gas supply.

How fuel and carbon-efficient is the side effect of being forced to cook exclusively by electricity, I wonder too....

[UncleEbenezer]

Starting in 2025, low-carbon heating systems will be installed in all new build homes. So would it be unwise to think of replacing a gas boiler at the moment until low carbon better alternatives become more available?

I like a man with optimism and a sense of humour.

'Early adoptors' tend to pay through the nose for what rapidly turns out to be not particularly good engineering.

Which can be highly profitable for them. As in, those enjoying enormous FITs from not-particularly-early solar panels.

I'm hoping to get a heat pump, though they won't install until summer when the river is lower and easier to work with. Cost an arm and a leg, but the government incentive brings that down to a similar ballpark to a new gas boiler.

How fuel and carbon-efficient is the side effect of being forced to cook exclusively by electricity, I wonder too....

Very. An induction hob is a lot more efficient than gas.

[AF62]

Starting in 2025, low-carbon heating systems will be installed in all new build homes. So would it be unwise to think of replacing a gas boiler at the moment until low carbon better alternatives become more available?

I like a man with optimism and a sense of humour.

'Early adoptors' tend to pay through the nose for what rapidly turns out to be not particularly good engineering. My view is get your new gas boiler now while you can, as for the first 5 to 10 years of mandatory heat pumps, they may well prove to be a complete farce judging by the risibly poor quality of the first crop of condensing boilers sold from around 1998 to 2010. Then you can be heating with gas while the heating industry refines the designs for domestic heat pumps into products that actually suit the purpose and all the wrinkles are ironed out.

And buyers won't be able to revert to a gas boiler in their new builds in the interim as there will (presumably) be no gas supply.

How fuel and carbon-efficient is the side effect of being forced to cook exclusively by electricity, I wonder too....

Well the first foray into heat pumps ended in disaster - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19511637

Didn’t improve six years later - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-42649611

And the only way the technology makes any sense is for the government to subsidise the and give thousands to every household - https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/ ... the-planet and even then it only works for retired people at home all day with the heating on!

[Mike4]

Starting in 2025, low-carbon heating systems will be installed in all new build homes. So would it be unwise to think of replacing a gas boiler at the moment until low carbon better alternatives become more available?

I like a man with optimism and a sense of humour.

'Early adoptors' tend to pay through the nose for what rapidly turns out to be not particularly good engineering.

Which can be highly profitable for them. As in, those enjoying enormous FITs from not-particularly-early solar panels.

I'm hoping to get a heat pump, though they won't install until summer when the river is lower and easier to work with. Cost an arm and a leg, but the government incentive brings that down to a similar ballpark to a new gas boiler.

How fuel and carbon-efficient is the side effect of being forced to cook exclusively by electricity, I wonder too....

Very. An induction hob is a lot more efficient than gas.

Did you resolve the question about whether you need an abstraction license for this, or not?

[UncleEbenezer]

Did you resolve the question about whether you need an abstraction license for this, or not?

I understand the answer is yes, I do. Thanks for asking!

[Mike4]

Did you resolve the question about whether you need an abstraction license for this, or not?

I understand the answer is yes, I do. Thanks for asking!

Is it gonna be a hassle to get do you think? Or is there a presumption nowadays to issue them unless there is a good reason not to?

[Mike4]

How fuel and carbon-efficient is the side effect of being forced to cook exclusively by electricity, I wonder too....

Very. An induction hob is a lot more efficient than gas.

I don't use a hob much. Most of my cooking uses the oven(s) and they guzzle the power!

[richlist]

We have an air sourced heat pump already in our Spanish property. Cheap to buy, easy to install, cheap to run. Doubles as an air conditioner in summer. Will be seriously looking to install a system in our UK property in the future.

Link the installation to solar panels and the cost of electricity for domestic users is minimal

My electric bill already in the UK, after taking off all refunds, payments, tariffs etc was less than £100 last year.

[AF62]

Link the installation to solar panels and the cost of electricity for domestic users is minimal

Only if you have a way of obtaining free solar panels.

[richlist]

Link the installation to solar panels and the cost of electricity for domestic users is minimal

Only if you have a way of obtaining free solar panels.

Using that example, I suppose if someone said to you that running an electric car is a lot cheaper than a petrol one, your answer would be.....only if you have a way of obtaining a free electric car ?

[AF62]

Link the installation to solar panels and the cost of electricity for domestic users is minimal

Only if you have a way of obtaining free solar panels.

Using that example, I suppose if someone said to you that running an electric car is a lot cheaper than a petrol one, your answer would be.....only if you have a way of obtaining a free electric car ?

No, I would look at the whole cost, so in that example the cost of buying, running, and fuelling an electric car compared to non-electric.

For the heat-pump with solar panels I would compare the cost of buying a heat-pump and buying solar panels plus buying electricity when the sun isn’t shining with the cost of a gas boiler and gas.

The only way the heat-pump with solar panels is more cost effective is if the solar panels are free.

[richlist]

There are of course other considerations to take into account.
For example.....heat pump installation is worthy of investigation if one is about to install either a new gas boiler or complete gas c/heating as there is an opportunity to offset the cost.

[swill453]

How cost-effective are air source heat pumps in Scotland, where you might get days on end in winter where the temperature doesn't get above 5 degrees?

Scott.

[DrFfybes]

There are of course other considerations to take into account.
For example.....heat pump installation is worthy of investigation if one is about to install either a new gas boiler or complete gas c/heating as there is an opportunity to offset the cost.

We looked at this with a Green energy company, who basically said that once we'd paid to replace the microbore and the rads then we'd be wasting 10k compared to just replacing the boiler and HWC. However were we on Oil rather than mains gas it would be different.

How cost-effective are air source heat pumps in Scotland, where you might get days on end in winter where the temperature doesn't get above 5 degrees?

Scott.

I have a friend in Doune who put a heat pump in ealier this year when they moved. Entire system and new rads - says it is fine, so far - but the neighbours also have one and a woodburner for the very cold evenings.

Paul

[Itsallaguess]

How cost-effective are air source heat pumps in Scotland, where you might get days on end in winter where the temperature doesn't get above 5 degrees?

Lots the articles we might read about heat pumps running in very low temperatures will point to Nordic countries, with their very cold winters, and tell us that they've been using them for years..

What they often fail to point out is that the majority of Nordic housing stock will have been very well built from the outset, taking those cold winters into account, and be extremely well insulated when compared to the majority of UK homes.

In poorly-insulated homes, heat pumps will never be as economical to run compared to when they're in well-insulated homes, and in cold winters those problems are likely to be very prominent from both a cost and ambient temperature perspective..

They'll work, but they'll be working extremely hard, and for hard, read more expensive...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[richlist]

Well my property in Spain has zero insulation.......totally zero. No wall insulation, no double glazing etc.
It gets very cold in winter.....below freezing sometimes but regularly below 5 deg'.
The heat pump works like magic and doesn't cost much to run.I

Don't knock it until you've tried it.

[Mike4]

We have an air sourced heat pump already in our Spanish property. Cheap to buy, easy to install, cheap to run. Doubles as an air conditioner in summer. Will be seriously looking to install a system in our UK property in the future.

Link the installation to solar panels and the cost of electricity for domestic users is minimal

My electric bill already in the UK, after taking off all refunds, payments, tariffs etc was less than £100 last year.

The people claiming heat pumps are cheap to buy never seem to state figures. How much did yours cost to buy and install please? The Guardian article says they cost between £10,000 and £20,000 to install, less any gov't grants you might or might not happen to qualify for.

And given the climate in Spain, I'd guess a heat pump about five times the size would be needed to cope with one of our bleak UK winter spells when the outside temperature barely rises above zero for days or weeks on end.

A whole house air-to-water heat pump is a totally different kettle of fish from the simple modular 'plug and play' air-to-air system I suspect you might have in your Spanish gaff.