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Being earthed while using pipe/cable detector

Does what it says on the tin
Clariman
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Being earthed while using pipe/cable detector

#511508

Postby Clariman » July 3rd, 2022, 12:49 pm

I've just bought a cable/pipe detector for checking walls before drilling. It says
Make sure you are properly earthed. If you are not properly earthed (e.g. by wearing insulating footwearor standing on a ladder), it wont locate live cables.


How do I make sure I'm properly earthed- stand on the floor with bare feet? Are bare feet on ceramic tiles earthed? Do I touch something metal when doing it?

Clariman
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Re: Being earthed while using pipe/cable detector

#511512

Postby Clariman » July 3rd, 2022, 1:08 pm

At the moment it is telling me there are live wires everywhere!

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Re: Being earthed while using pipe/cable detector

#511518

Postby mc2fool » July 3rd, 2022, 1:18 pm

Clariman wrote:I've just bought a cable/pipe detector for checking walls before drilling. It says
Make sure you are properly earthed. If you are not properly earthed (e.g. by wearing insulating footwearor standing on a ladder), it wont locate live cables.

How do I make sure I'm properly earthed- stand on the floor with bare feet? Are bare feet on ceramic tiles earthed? Do I touch something metal when doing it?

Hmmm... mine doesn't say anything about being earthed ... but in any case, looks like they want you to wear wellies or stand on a ladder! (How does that earth you?!?)

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Re: Being earthed while using pipe/cable detector

#511520

Postby Clariman » July 3rd, 2022, 1:20 pm

mc2fool wrote:
Clariman wrote:I've just bought a cable/pipe detector for checking walls before drilling. It says
Make sure you are properly earthed. If you are not properly earthed (e.g. by wearing insulating footwearor standing on a ladder), it wont locate live cables.

How do I make sure I'm properly earthed- stand on the floor with bare feet? Are bare feet on ceramic tiles earthed? Do I touch something metal when doing it?

Hmmm... mine doesn't say anything about being earthed ... but in any case, looks like they want you to wear wellies or stand on a ladder! (How does that earth you?!?)

Yes that wording is ambiguous. I think it is listing them as examples of being NOT properly earthed. Very poorly written

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Re: Being earthed while using pipe/cable detector

#511521

Postby servodude » July 3rd, 2022, 1:22 pm

Clariman wrote:At the moment it is telling me there are live wires everywhere!


It will probably need to be somewhere inert (not sure if that's the correct term) when you power it up so it can calibrate (I think they work like metal detectors)

Have a look for a video on YouTube; it will probably cover the grounding suggestions also

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Re: Being earthed while using pipe/cable detector

#511522

Postby XFool » July 3rd, 2022, 1:29 pm

mc2fool wrote:
Clariman wrote:I've just bought a cable/pipe detector for checking walls before drilling. It says
Make sure you are properly earthed. If you are not properly earthed (e.g. by wearing insulating footwearor standing on a ladder), it wont locate live cables.

How do I make sure I'm properly earthed- stand on the floor with bare feet? Are bare feet on ceramic tiles earthed? Do I touch something metal when doing it?

Hmmm... mine doesn't say anything about being earthed ... but in any case, looks like they want you to wear wellies or stand on a ladder! (How does that earth you?!?)

Uh? It is saying exactly the opposite (as I am sure you know)! At least, that is its intended meaning, written in the context of a basic understanding.

If someone were to misunderstand its intended meaning and context so fundamentally, I doubt they should even be using such equipment...

I have never used such equipment but, in my experience of using certain types of shoes/footwear while walking on floors before turning on mains radio tuners/touching the screens of just turned on CRT televisions etc. simply wearing ordinary leather shoes & leather or composite (not plastic) soles, or just socks, should be adequate on a bare floor. If in doubt, use a simple neon mains tester to find out?

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Re: Being earthed while using pipe/cable detector

#511524

Postby mc2fool » July 3rd, 2022, 1:35 pm

Clariman wrote:
mc2fool wrote:
Clariman wrote:I've just bought a cable/pipe detector for checking walls before drilling. It says
Make sure you are properly earthed. If you are not properly earthed (e.g. by wearing insulating footwearor standing on a ladder), it wont locate live cables.

How do I make sure I'm properly earthed- stand on the floor with bare feet? Are bare feet on ceramic tiles earthed? Do I touch something metal when doing it?

Hmmm... mine doesn't say anything about being earthed ... but in any case, looks like they want you to wear wellies or stand on a ladder! (How does that earth you?!?)

Yes that wording is ambiguous. I think it is listing them as examples of being NOT properly earthed. Very poorly written

Oh yes, so it is! Sorry must have read it too quickly.... :oops:

Well, I suppose you could wear an anti-static strap and clip it to a looong wire that is attached either to your water mains copper pipe or to the earth pin of a 13 amp plug that's plugged in somewhere ...

But that's of course pretty inconvenient, and maybe just a one-off touch of, say, a copper pipe might be enough? Do you not have to "calibrate" the device? With mine you have to put it against a wall and power it up and scan without moving before every reading. Try it somewhere where you think there aren't any cables and then next to a light switch or power socket.

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Re: Being earthed while using pipe/cable detector

#511528

Postby Clariman » July 3rd, 2022, 2:01 pm

Elsewhere in the instructions it suggests putting your other hand on the wall 20 to 30cm away to ground the wall. Reviews also suggest the importance of this. That has stopped it from telling me there are wires everywhere. However it isn't 100% consistent so I may opt for adhesive hooks rather than the nice wall mounted bar that we bought.

I'm not going to risk it on this wall because I know the power for the hob and the island comes from the garage via this wall in the utility room. I thought it went nearer ceiling level and back down in the kitchen but can't be sure.

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Re: Being earthed while using pipe/cable detector

#512156

Postby DrFfybes » July 6th, 2022, 2:41 pm

Clariman wrote:Elsewhere in the instructions it suggests putting your other hand on the wall 20 to 30cm away to ground the wall. Reviews also suggest the importance of this. That has stopped it from telling me there are wires everywhere. However it isn't 100% consistent so I may opt for adhesive hooks rather than the nice wall mounted bar that we bought.


If you set it to detect studs and you should find them at 45cm spacing. This is a good guide. pick one and drill a small (3mm if possible) pilot hole with a masonry bit and with the drill on slow. If it goes all the way through then you've missed it and can either fill te hole or cover it in the sticky hook or with whatever you are fixing to the wall. If it stops when it his the wood then you can just screw through your bracket with a woodscrew which should hold at least one end very firm.

Paul

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Re: Being earthed while using pipe/cable detector

#512181

Postby kempiejon » July 6th, 2022, 4:14 pm

DrFfybes wrote:
Clariman wrote:Elsewhere in the instructions it suggests putting your other hand on the wall 20 to 30cm away to ground the wall. Reviews also suggest the importance of this. That has stopped it from telling me there are wires everywhere. However it isn't 100% consistent so I may opt for adhesive hooks rather than the nice wall mounted bar that we bought.


If you set it to detect studs and you should find them at 45cm spacing. This is a good guide. pick one and drill a small (3mm if possible) pilot hole with a masonry bit and with the drill on slow. If it goes all the way through then you've missed it and can either fill te hole or cover it in the sticky hook or with whatever you are fixing to the wall. If it stops when it his the wood then you can just screw through your bracket with a woodscrew which should hold at least one end very firm.

Paul


I have used these stud/pipe/wire detectors and like Clariman I've found them to be inconsistant. On plasterboard and stud walls my handy tip for finding studs is the ball of my hand if you thump the wall it changes tone and bounce when you thump on the studs. A Neodymium magnet will usually find the screw in the plasterboard too and they should be in a line marking your studs behind. As DrFybes implied there (probably!) won't be wires where there are studs and using a magnet will stop you randomly hitting a plasterboard screw.

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Re: Being earthed while using pipe/cable detector

#512322

Postby csearle » July 6th, 2022, 11:05 pm

Clariman wrote:How do I make sure I'm properly earthed- stand on the floor with bare feet? Are bare feet on ceramic tiles earthed? Do I touch something metal when doing it?
I know exactly what they mean.

Over the years I've used a variety of "voltage" detectors. They only work well if your body is fairly well Earthed. Your body is, electrically speaking, a noisy environment. Not sure which is worse, the electrical currents flowing through your body as part of your nervous system or the currents induced into you from impinging radio waves. Probably the latter. Whatever, there are degrees of Earthiness in things, including yourself.

If you hang on to a metal water or gas pipe (with a good electrical connection to our planet) or any metal (class 1) electrical equipment, or indeed anything that conducts and has a good connection to ground then the electrical noise measurable in your body (with respect to ground) will be less.

Many devices rely on your body's Earthiness as a reference for measurement.

So for example the "voltage" detector I currently use is unreliable if I don't hold it. If I prop it up so that the bit I'd normally hold is leaning on something Earthed then it works fine. If I'm up a glass-fibre stepladder it probably won't.

Chris
PS You can test this. If you get an oscilloscope and just touch the probe there will be a humongous signal on the display (usually 50Hz mains hum). If you then touch Earth this pretty much flatlines.)


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