'Pocket' style doors.

[JonE]

I'm toying with the idea of installing a partition wall to split an open-plan area into sitting-room and kitchen/diner and am considering a double-width doorway with doors retracting into this new wall. I'd be very happy to hear the voice of experience.

I'd expect to use conventional door-frames with full-height toughened glass inset so as to continue to borrow light when the doors need to be closed. I'll need light switches near the openings and had assumed 16mm back boxes would be fine but want LED dimmers and those seem to demand 25mm back boxes which I suspect may not fit. I don't want to make a 7m wall thicker along whole length just for light switches. Perhaps remote-control dimming (and colour temperature control?) for LED panels would be the way to go - especially as panels would ideally be controlled with multi-way switching.

I'd also like to run fitted kitchen cabinets to near one side of the opening but would hanging the last wall cupboard be a problem given the 'void' behind it? This is in a bungalow which needs Artexed ceilings handled (probably by total removal) and the roof insulation upgrading so access to above is straightforward.

Using 35x1981x838 doors would provide a usefully wide opening but are there good arguments for using 762 doors (wider choice of mechanisms and suppliers, disproportionately expensive to go larger, etc.)? Some options look reasonably priced while others certainly don't but which have proved worthwhile or desirable?

Cheers!

[sg31]

The last time I did this was 10 years ago so things might have changed.

At that time there were companies selling kits to do the job but they were very expensive and not very good. I got round it by buying doors I liked which were oak panel doors, plus a hanging track which fitted into a wall cavity and across the top of the opening. There was an existing wall dividing the rooms so it was a case of creating the required opening with a steel across the top, then build a stud wall slightly away from the wall to provide the cavity. It worked very well , it was cheap and the doors were good. The main problem is you lose the thickness of the stud wall off the rpoom.

I'm not sure if I'd do it that way if I was doing the joib for a client, they tend to prefer the expensive kit they've seen in some magazine or other.

Your doors with toughened glass will be heavy but so were my oak doors, the hanging tracks come in a variety of weight ranges.

As this would create a stud wall you can use plasterboard boxes to accomodate whatever switches you want.Similarly if you install suitably placed pattresses within the studwork you can hang kitchen units wherever you like.

Artex can be a pain. Your options are have the ceiling down and put new plasterboard up or just overboard it. I'm not sure which method is currently favoured.

[JonE]

As this would create a stud wall you can use plasterboard boxes to accomodate whatever switches you want.Similarly if you install suitably placed pattresses within the studwork you can hang kitchen units wherever you like.

Yes, but my questions are because I don't want two parallel 'regular' walls with a gap between them. I'd considered sliding 'barn doors' and enclosing them (and similar) but that isn't what I'm after because of existing window reveals at end of run and available floor-space.

I would want a stand-alone partition wall of 'normal' thickness but a door-sized area each side of the opening would be providing a cavity for a door to retreat into so I had doubts about how deep boxes could go without compromising that cavity and just what would carry the load from a wall cabinet when the leaf covering the cavity is so relatively thin and with the first 'proper' stud so far from the opening.

Cheers!

[AsleepInYorkshire]

I'm toying with the idea of installing a partition wall to split an open-plan area into sitting-room and kitchen/diner and am considering a double-width doorway with doors retracting into this new wall. I'd be very happy to hear the voice of experience.

Sorry to sound so dumb. Do you mean sliding doors that slide into the wall? I'm assuming you do for the purposes of my reply

I'd expect to use conventional door-frames with full-height toughened glass inset so as to continue to borrow light when the doors need to be closed.

I think you mean standard doors. The frames for sliding doors will not be "standard". When you "borrow" light you can rely on 90% of the light coming from the top 10% of glass. If cost is an issue this will allow you to reduce the amount of glass you need. If it's aesthetic then the budget is yours to apply.

I'll need light switches near the openings and had assumed 16mm back boxes would be fine but want LED dimmers and those seem to demand 25mm back boxes which I suspect may not fit. I don't want to make a 7m wall thicker along whole length just for light switches. Perhaps remote-control dimming (and colour temperature control?) for LED panels would be the way to go - especially as panels would ideally be controlled with multi-way switching.

I've only ever seen one house with a design of sliding doors concealed within a wall after 40 years in the industry. That was last year. I can't recall if the wall was block or timber stud. I'm guessing a bit here but if you can't widen the wall by 9mm are you struggling for space? The concealed sliding doors will make the overall thickness of the wall greater without the need to worry about an extra 9mm?

I'd also like to run fitted kitchen cabinets to near one side of the opening but would hanging the last wall cupboard be a problem given the 'void' behind it? This is in a bungalow which needs Artexed ceilings handled (probably by total removal) and the roof insulation upgrading so access to above is straightforward.

If the walls either side of the doors are blockwork you can hang wall units to this. If they are timber i.e. it's a stud partition wall then you have options. You can add noggins where you know the units will be fit or if you're not sure you can line the wall with 18mm plywood (possibly OSB) and that will allow any number of screws to be fixed to it. This timber "pattress" should be fixed with screws at 150mm centres to the studs, noggins head and sole plates (i.e. the timber in the stud partition). You may have the option to skim over the artex. Depends on a lot of things not least of which if the current artex is cracked that would suggest insufficient noggins to the plasterboards. If not you could consider unibond and skim straight over the existing artex. If you add additional insulation you will need to consider add(itional) ventilation to the loft space. Several ways to do this and I suggest Google it.

Using 35x1981x838 doors would provide a usefully wide opening but are there good arguments for using 762 doors (wider choice of mechanisms and suppliers, disproportionately expensive to go larger, etc.)? Some options look reasonably priced while others certainly don't but which have proved worthwhile or desirable?

Standard doors in most homes are 726mm I think. Two 726 doors is a good width.

AiYn'U

[JonE]

I'd expect to use conventional door-frames with full-height toughened glass inset so as to continue to borrow light when the doors need to be closed.

I think you mean standard doors. The frames for sliding doors will not be "standard".

Sloppy wording on my part. I wasn't referring to wall frames and liners, etc. but the framing created by stiles and rails to carry the door's glazing.

I'm guessing a bit here but if you can't widen the wall by 9mm are you struggling for space? The concealed sliding doors will make the overall thickness of the wall greater without the need to worry about an extra 9mm?

It'd be 9mm each face but the hassle would be having to 'pad out' the whole of this new stud wall just to accommodate light switches on each face. What I've read so far indicates 35mm doors don't require 'thickened' walls but nothing so far has actually directly stated that 25mm boxes can be fitted close to the opening. Guess I could ensure I have several pinches of salt available and check with suppliers - but the notion of remote control of dimming is growing on me.

You may have the option to skim over the artex. Depends on a lot of things not least of which if the current artex is cracked that would suggest insufficient noggins to the plasterboards.

I'm increasingly inclined to bite the bullet now and remove the existing boarding when installing new ceilings throughout the bungalow - especially as I'll be removing a partition wall elsewhere anyway.

Standard doors in most homes are 726mm I think. Two 726 doors is a good width.

762mm is 2'6" but I was wondering about the pros & cons if I were to go to 838mm (2'9") - if weight limits of hardware allow.

Cheers!

[redsturgeon]

I have used a kit to build in my own. The wall fram e is metal and I have hung frameless glass doors on them

I used this kit

https://www.rocketdoorframes.co.uk/

I doubt there would be enough room for a 25mm box though.

John

[sg31]

I have used a kit to build in my own. The wall fram e is metal and I have hung frameless glass doors on them

I used this kit

https://www.rocketdoorframes.co.uk/

I doubt there would be enough room for a 25mm box though.

John

Interesting.

The fitting instructions look like they must have been prepared by Ikea. I'd need to see one in the flesh to work out how to fit it.

[redsturgeon]

I have used a kit to build in my own. The wall fram e is metal and I have hung frameless glass doors on them

I used this kit

https://www.rocketdoorframes.co.uk/

I doubt there would be enough room for a 25mm box though.

John

Interesting.

The fitting instructions look like they must have been prepared by Ikea. I'd need to see one in the flesh to work out how to fit it.

Quite straightforward in the flesh

John

[JonE]

I doubt there would be enough room for a 25mm box though.

I seem to have missed the site you linked when conducting my general survey but it includes the information that they supply 19mm plasterboard screws for attaching board to frame which are 'just the right size to attach the board and not protrude too much with the risk of scratching your door'. That seems to confirm 16mm box is OK but not 25mm (even for 35mm rather than 44mm door) for kit of similar style to their own in a skinny wall.

Cheers!

[PrincessB]

To throw a bit of a curve ball into the mix.

Would a set of bifold doors used internally work?

Likely to be more of a faff to get the installed but on the upside, you'll be able to create a wider opening to allow the rooms to merge when they are open.

Another advantage would be the double glazing which should ensure that when closed reduces sound tranmittance between the two zones. Great if someone wants to watch TV or play music while others wish to talk in the kitchen/diner.

I'm working up the plans for a self build and this is an idea that I'm giving serious thought to.

Regards,

B.

[Mike88]

An earlier post stated:

"Artex can be a pain. Your options are have the ceiling down and put new plasterboard up or just overboard it. I'm not sure which method is currently favoured."

Artex can be overplastered. I have had several Artex ceilings done in this way and 10 years later they look as good as the day the plasterer finished the job.

[sg31]

An earlier post stated:

"Artex can be a pain. Your options are have the ceiling down and put new plasterboard up or just overboard it. I'm not sure which method is currently favoured."

Artex can be overplastered. I have had several Artex ceilings done in this way and 10 years later they look as good as the day the plasterer finished the job.

It is possible and it is done. Personally I prefer to overboard it. With old lathe and plaster ceilings that have been artexed I'd have them down and then reboard.

I've been renovating older properties for 30 years and I'm a bit set in my ways after that length of time. It takes no time at all to overboard a normal ceiling. I just think it's a better job.

[dspp]

To throw a bit of a curve ball into the mix.

Would a set of bifold doors used internally work?

Likely to be more of a faff to get the installed but on the upside, you'll be able to create a wider opening to allow the rooms to merge when they are open.

Another advantage would be the double glazing which should ensure that when closed reduces sound tranmittance between the two zones. Great if someone wants to watch TV or play music while others wish to talk in the kitchen/diner.

I'm working up the plans for a self build and this is an idea that I'm giving serious thought to.

Regards,

B.

Bifold with parliament hinges. Glazed. Works a treat.

Regards, dspp

[JamesMuenchen]

My previous apartment had what I think you are considering: two normal width doors that slid out of opposite wall enclosures and met in the middle.

I didn't like them as the "meet in the middle part" was never very good and they were very drafty.

Also it was impossible to properly clean inside the enclosures.

It was an old flat though, I'm sure that these days there are better systems than the one I had.