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Crazy paving gaps

Does what it says on the tin
raybarrow
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Crazy paving gaps

#336724

Postby raybarrow » August 29th, 2020, 9:24 am

Hi Folks,

Our gardner has cleared the weeds from our patio which is crazy paving and been there at least 30 years. Overtime the paving gaps have widened and filled with soil, hence the weeds. Gardner suggested we cement the gaps to prevent all her hard work going to waste! Fair comment.

I have some industrial strength weedkiller which I will use regularly over the next few to stop/deter the new growth but I do need a more permanent solution. It's not a big area, but given I am over 70 and not superfit, I could manage a fairly easy, bit at a time job. Don't want to lift and relay anything but what would be best to fill the gaps with? I would hope for a dry mix of some sort to let natural dampness take its course. The patio is only walked on, no heavy traffic.

I had considered having it all replaced with block paving, then all I would have to do would be pay, but if fixing it could be an easy project that would be preferable.

Cheers,
Ray.

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Re: Crazy paving gaps

#336733

Postby Howard » August 29th, 2020, 10:24 am

I have used a jointing compound called Pavetuf to fill the gaps on both a new patio and a 20 year old patio which had the same problems you describe.

It's not cheap at around £35 a tub but it was brilliant to apply. All you need to do is to sweep it into the cracks while gently spraying the slabs with water from a hose. It doesn't stain the slabs (which a diy cement mortar job will).

It will take about half an hour to fill the gaps in a relatively small area of crazy paving. The compound hardens when it dries but remains slightly flexible so, since my earliest experience of using it in 2017, has shown no signs of cracking or shrinking.

The other advantage is that you don't have to use it all at once. Provided it is kept covered in water in its tub it will keep for months.

I would add that I washed out the gaps in my established patio to remove any mud before applying.

Good luck with the project.

It's available from some builders' merchants and the link is:

https://www.pavetuf.co.uk/jointing-compound/

regards

Howard

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Re: Crazy paving gaps

#336738

Postby sg31 » August 29th, 2020, 10:48 am

A dry mix isn't the ideal solution, it will work after a fashion but it doesn't tend to last very well.

A wet mix of building sand and cement works well but needs a bit more skill to get right. Getteng it in the joints, if they are reasonably wide, is relatively easy but getting it to look right takes time.

I've recently used this to point some stone slabs, it's pretty foolproof and looks very serviceable. Brush it into the gaps,compress, brush more in,compress again and then point it up like the wet mix above. With wide gaps the last bit can take time. It's expensive stuff, I bought it to see what it was like, I'm not sure I would in future but I'm an retired builder so a wet mix is what I'm used to. It's available at many places.

https://www.wickes.co.uk/Sika-Fast-Fix- ... lsrc=aw.ds

As someone who bought a house a few years ago that had a very large expanse of block paviors, I know that it can be a problem to maintain. It looks great when new but it suffers from moss and weeds growing in the sand joints. It needs regularly pressure washing and resanding. Not something to worry about if it's only a small area but a pain if it's a big expanse

Depending on how capable you are, how much time you are able to kneel down and bend over (like hand weeding a flower bed) and the area to be pointed you can decide on your best option. Otherwise it might be worth getting someone in to repoint it for you.

I'm sure other posters will come up with some other options I haven't thought about.

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Re: Crazy paving gaps

#336831

Postby Maroochydore » August 29th, 2020, 7:03 pm

Funnily enough I was in our local timber/building merchants this morning and noticed a display for EasyJoint https://www.alsfordtimber.com/garden-la ... t-compound.
"Description : EASYJoint is a very quick, effective and aesthetically pleasing way to fill joints between paving materials. It is suitable for all types of paving material provided there is a gap of at least 3mm wide and 25mm deep. As the name implies it is easy and quick to use and comes in 5 colours."

They had some ready mixed sample pieces on the display tray and I was very impressed with the hardness, textures and colours on offer.

Obviously haven't used it but looks simple to use.

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Re: Crazy paving gaps

#336862

Postby sg31 » August 29th, 2020, 10:17 pm

Maroochydore wrote:Funnily enough I was in our local timber/building merchants this morning and noticed a display for EasyJoint https://www.alsfordtimber.com/garden-la ... t-compound.
"Description : EASYJoint is a very quick, effective and aesthetically pleasing way to fill joints between paving materials. It is suitable for all types of paving material provided there is a gap of at least 3mm wide and 25mm deep. As the name implies it is easy and quick to use and comes in 5 colours."

They had some ready mixed sample pieces on the display tray and I was very impressed with the hardness, textures and colours on offer.

Obviously haven't used it but looks simple to use.


Very similar to the Sika product I referred to I think. Assuming that the joints in crazy paving will be all different widths, it's impossible to use a standard pointing tool to finish the joint. If you could just brush the product in and leave it that would be simple but that's not how the Sika one works, it needs compressing. The one you mention might not need compressing which would be a bonus, I suspect the material is very similar though.


Getting the joints to look right is a pain. In my case the joint width varied but also the stone surface was irregular so the height varied along the joint. That probably wont be the case with crazy paving.

With sand and cement you can point carefully and then run a soft brush along afterwards which improves the look immensely.

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Re: Crazy paving gaps

#336877

Postby Howard » August 29th, 2020, 11:03 pm

sg31 wrote:
Maroochydore wrote:Funnily enough I was in our local timber/building merchants this morning and noticed a display for EasyJoint https://www.alsfordtimber.com/garden-la ... t-compound.
"Description : EASYJoint is a very quick, effective and aesthetically pleasing way to fill joints between paving materials. It is suitable for all types of paving material provided there is a gap of at least 3mm wide and 25mm deep. As the name implies it is easy and quick to use and comes in 5 colours."

They had some ready mixed sample pieces on the display tray and I was very impressed with the hardness, textures and colours on offer.

Obviously haven't used it but looks simple to use.


Very similar to the Sika product I referred to I think. Assuming that the joints in crazy paving will be all different widths, it's impossible to use a standard pointing tool to finish the joint. If you could just brush the product in and leave it that would be simple but that's not how the Sika one works, it needs compressing. The one you mention might not need compressing which would be a bonus, I suspect the material is very similar though.


Getting the joints to look right is a pain. In my case the joint width varied but also the stone surface was irregular so the height varied along the joint. That probably wont be the case with crazy paving.

With sand and cement you can point carefully and then run a soft brush along afterwards which improves the look immensely.


Pavetuf compound is very simple to use, I just brushed it into the gaps between slabs and, as it is a heavy mix, a gentle spray from the hose washes it in. No compressing was necessary. I used the buff colour and it has matured to a natural look since 2017. It doesn't shrink, so it is generally level with the slabs. I used it with both riven slabs and Indian sandstone. It wouldn't be suitable for producing a raised finish, however. The great advantage for me, having had the previous experience of back-breaking pointing with a mortar mix both dry and wet, was that the joints in a new substantial sized terrace were filled in half an hour. This would have taken me many hours in previous years. I will never use mortar again!

regards

Howard

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Re: Crazy paving gaps

#336907

Postby bungeejumper » August 30th, 2020, 9:05 am

Sand and cement for me too, and I'm seventy in a few months. But fair enough, we're all different and we all have different backbones. :D The OP's request for an easy solution was clear enough, and the PaveTuf sounds like it meets that criterion.

Have to say that I've never used a brush-on product that didn't leave me cursing the amount of cleaning off that I had to do afterwards. Maybe that's because the residues that don't get fully down the cracks will always look worse on dark coloured slabs. But a kitchen pan scourer (or rather, several) is pretty quick and effective, even two days after the event.

BJ

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Re: Crazy paving gaps

#336918

Postby raybarrow » August 30th, 2020, 10:05 am

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll investigate the Pavetuf product, sounds like it's just what I need. The cost is not a major problem as the area is not that big. The crazy paving isn't snooker table flat so finishing isn't a problem. I take the point about cleaning out the joints to give the Pavetuf a sensible depth to work with. Again something I can manage now the weeds have been removed.

Thanks again,
Ray.

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Re: Crazy paving gaps

#336928

Postby sg31 » August 30th, 2020, 11:18 am

Howard wrote:Pavetuf compound is very simple to use, I just brushed it into the gaps between slabs and, as it is a heavy mix, a gentle spray from the hose washes it in. No compressing was necessary. I used the buff colour and it has matured to a natural look since 2017. It doesn't shrink, so it is generally level with the slabs. I used it with both riven slabs and Indian sandstone. It wouldn't be suitable for producing a raised finish, however. The great advantage for me, having had the previous experience of back-breaking pointing with a mortar mix both dry and wet, was that the joints in a new substantial sized terrace were filled in half an hour. This would have taken me many hours in previous years. I will never use mortar again!

regards


Howard


Thank you for that. It sounds like the best option for pointing paving. Much better than the Sika product.

I will give it a try the next time I have to do the job which hopefully won't be in the near future. As a bad back sufferer I do find being on my knees and bent over really hurts and it can take a few days before I can reduce the painkillers.

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Re: Crazy paving gaps

#336932

Postby Howard » August 30th, 2020, 11:25 am

raybarrow wrote:Thanks for the suggestions. I'll investigate the Pavetuf product, sounds like it's just what I need. The cost is not a major problem as the area is not that big. The crazy paving isn't snooker table flat so finishing isn't a problem. I take the point about cleaning out the joints to give the Pavetuf a sensible depth to work with. Again something I can manage now the weeds have been removed.

Thanks again,
Ray.


Perhaps one obvious thing I should have mentioned. At the edge of the patio one has to block the end of each gap to stop the compound running out onto grass or a border etc.

This is emphasised in the instructions. I used old plasticine from the grandchildren's toybox and it worked well.

regards

Howard

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Re: Crazy paving gaps

#336934

Postby sg31 » August 30th, 2020, 11:28 am

bungeejumper wrote:Sand and cement for me too, and I'm seventy in a few months. But fair enough, we're all different and we all have different backbones. :D The OP's request for an easy solution was clear enough, and the PaveTuf sounds like it meets that criterion.

Have to say that I've never used a brush-on product that didn't leave me cursing the amount of cleaning off that I had to do afterwards. Maybe that's because the residues that don't get fully down the cracks will always look worse on dark coloured slabs. But a kitchen pan scourer (or rather, several) is pretty quick and effective, even two days after the event.

BJ


The Sika product was the same. I found that brushing it into the gaps left sand like particles on the surface of the stone. Cleaning that off took longer than pointing with sand and cement. I resorted to putting it into the joints with a trowel, compressing it, adding more, compress again then finish. The sandy bits were only about an inch outside the joint line which was much quicker to brush into the joint line further along.

In other words it was a lot of faffing around. By that time I'd started the job and it would be too time consuming to backtrack so I had to continue using the Sika. Most irritating as I ended up having to buy another tub.

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Re: Crazy paving gaps

#337026

Postby 88V8 » August 30th, 2020, 8:15 pm

An old hessian sack is good for cleaning off as you go.

V8

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Re: Crazy paving gaps

#337088

Postby martinc » August 31st, 2020, 9:14 am

My patio had been repointed with sand+cement mortar, when I replaced it with the Sika stuff most of the old mortar was like soft putty and full of weeds, dirt etc. I suppose the last owner used the wrong mix or something but using mortar is not foolproof either.

90% of the work is clearing out the old stuff. I agree there is a lot of faffing about with the Sika compound - you must compress it and it won't fill narrow gaps. Any sandy residue can be brushed away with a wire brush, even after days later when the joints are rock hard. It's also 100% weed resistant.


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