Switching from Gas to Electric Central Heating

[baldchap]

I was wondering if anyone had made the switch from gas to electric, and would wish to share any insights?

The old system boiler is about 40 years old, and both engineers so far don't seem keen to offer a quote for a replacement even though I am looking at a high end replacement with maintenance schedule.
They are the better of 2 local outfits, and I really don't want to fish the depths for someone who will want to throw a combi in for an easy job.
I like my bath, and the hot water tank, so am not interested in a combi. Experience from previous houses haven't shown them in a good light.

So i have arrived at the point of ....what if?..

[UncleEbenezer]

I was wondering if anyone had made the switch from gas to electric, and would wish to share any insights?

The old system boiler is about 40 years old, and both engineers so far don't seem keen to offer a quote for a replacement even though I am looking at a high end replacement with maintenance schedule.
They are the better of 2 local outfits, and I really don't want to fish the depths for someone who will want to throw a combi in for an easy job.
I like my bath, and the hot water tank, so am not interested in a combi. Experience from previous houses haven't shown them in a good light.

So i have arrived at the point of ....what if?..

Haven't done it, but I have someone coming the week after next to survey the place for a possible heat pump. I'll see what he says. If that's feasible for you, it's likely to be the best electric option.

My heat pump - if it happens - will draw heat from the river water, and (along with an induction hob) allow me to wave goodbye to gas.

[AsleepInYorkshire]

I was wondering if anyone had made the switch from gas to electric, and would wish to share any insights?

The old system boiler is about 40 years old, and both engineers so far don't seem keen to offer a quote for a replacement even though I am looking at a high end replacement with maintenance schedule.
They are the better of 2 local outfits, and I really don't want to fish the depths for someone who will want to throw a combi in for an easy job.
I like my bath, and the hot water tank, so am not interested in a combi. Experience from previous houses haven't shown them in a good light.

So i have arrived at the point of ....what if?..

May be worth perusing ASHP's (air source heat pumps)?

Domestic Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI)

AiY

[fisher]

I have an ASHP. They sit outside the property. I have never heard of one being installed indoors.

[JohnB]

Look at AHSP, but you may need to change your radiators, as they provide a greater flow of cooler water than boilers, so often need radiators with more surface area.

Economy 7 electricity prices are likely to change over the next few years as there is a race between wind-farms and solar cars. Off-peak prices might drop or normalise with peak prices, nobody knows which.

[Itsallaguess]

I'd love to think an air source heat pump could be fitted with minimum fuss in the attic space directly above the upstairs landing..

How (& where) to position your air source heat pump -

Rule No.1 -

An air source heat pump (ASHP), as it’s name suggests, requires air as its source of heat. So rule number 1 is position the unit where it has an ample supply of ambient (outdoor) air.

Note I mention ambient air. If you were to position your ASHP in the loft, garage or some other internal space you would effectively turn that space into a cold room (freezer); as the heat pump takes the same air and keeps cooling and cooling it until the temperatures slumped to levels where it was impossible for the heat pump to extract heat effectively.

http://www.yougen.co.uk/blog-entry/1679/How+%2728%2726+where%2729+to+position+your+air+source+heat+pump/

and that's before we get to having to think about the anti-vibration mounting needed to stop you going mental from the whole house humming...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[Itsallaguess]

However....

I thought you might have then been considering actually using your loft as your fridge for a minute then....just think of what you could do with that extra space in the kitchen...

Joking aside, I'd still be concerned about transmitted noise with a loft-based ASHP. They're not known for their whisper-like qualities, and then there's the vibration as well as the noise...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[Mike4]

I was wondering if anyone had made the switch from gas to electric, and would wish to share any insights?

I suspect you have not sat down with a large single malt and calculated the price you pay per kiloWatt hour of gas and compared it to the price your electricity supplier charges for a kiloWatt hour of leccy. You'll probably knock over your glass of whisky in shock.

Edit to add:

I wrote a rant on this subject back in the summer, intending to publish it in a youtube video on the subject on my channel. I can't remember if I ever recorded and published it but here is the rough draft text for your delectation....

"A rant

This is a rant about electric central heating.

I keep hearing people toying with the idea of converting their gas central heating fuel to electricity, for environmental reasons. They will say burning gas is bad for the environment, electricity makes less pollution and CO2 so is environmentally better, and best of all it is 100% efficient. What’t not to like?

Well, the price of electricity is what’s not to like. Looking at my own bills, a unit of gas is costing me just under 4p, and a unit of electricity is around 18p. So my electricity is almost five times the price of my gas. Granted there are cheap rate night time tariffs available on electricity but even the night time cost of electricity is typically 12p per unit, three times the price and you only get that price between midnight and 7 in the morning.

So in summary, if your gas bill is around £700 a year, by switching to an electric boiler you can expect your heating bills to approximately triple, to around £2,100. It won’t go up fourfold because there are some fixed, standing charges included in bills too. People considering switching to electric heating for environmental reasons never seem to realise this enormous price difference!

Let’s just go back briefly to that of so seductive 100% efficiency claim by electric boiler marketeers. IT is true in the technical sense because efficiency is a measure of heat wasted, and gas boilers lose on average 15% of the heat through the warm flue gasses discharged to outside, but electric heaters convert ALL of the energy they burn into heat kept inside the house.. This only slightly offsets this massively higher cost of electricity though.

There is one way in which electric heating can be almost, but not quite as cost effective as gas. That is a device called a heat pump. A heat pump uses refrigeration technology to harvest ‘free’ heat energy from the outside air. It raises the temperature of that harvested energy and heats your home with it. Heat pumps run on electricity but only to run the compressor, pumps etc, not to do any actual heating. When a heat pump is using 1kw of electrical power, it is harvesting typically 3kw of heating power from the outside air. This 300% efficiency goes a long way to offsetting the high cost of the electricity running it in the first place, so a heat pump sipping electricity is actually the more environmentally sound option to choose, and will only cost a little more to run than a gas fired central heating boiler.

Thats it folks, thanks for watching! "

[Mike4]

My heat pump - if it happens - will draw heat from the river water, and (along with an induction hob) allow me to wave goodbye to gas.

I've an idea that counts as abstraction for which you'll need an Environment Agency licence (or something similar), the cost of which might be prohibitive. I could be wrong but I suggest checking before opening your wallet!

Besides, if everyone did it, the icebergs could become a hazard to navigation.

[richlist]

We have an ASHP in our property in Spain. It operates as an air conditioner in summer and a heater in winter......it's absolutely brilliant and costs very little to run.

I have considered having them installed in my UK property. Each external unit will run up to 3 internal units. So for me, I would need a total of 4 external units which would provide heat (and air con) to a total of 12 rooms. The cost is around £5000 + installation. I've only looked at Mitsubishi ASHP units so far.

We already have solar panels which includes domestic water heating installed so daytime operating for around 70% of the year is likely to be free.

[UncleEbenezer]

My heat pump - if it happens - will draw heat from the river water, and (along with an induction hob) allow me to wave goodbye to gas.

I've an idea that counts as abstraction for which you'll need an Environment Agency licence (or something similar), the cost of which might be prohibitive. I could be wrong but I suggest checking before opening your wallet!

Besides, if everyone did it, the icebergs could become a hazard to navigation.

I've spent some time on the environment agency website, and I can't find anything (one way nor t'other) that might clarify whether that is indeed the case. They certainly don't cover any case in their examples where net extraction or change to flow is exactly zero!

[baldchap]

I suspect you have not sat down with a large single malt and calculated the price you pay per kiloWatt hour of gas and compared it to the price your electricity supplier charges for a kiloWatt hour of leccy. You'll probably knock over your glass of whisky in shock.

Well, a large rum and pep, but point well taken Mike. I am in no way environmentally driven.
Reading some of the answers, it seems things have come along way since economy 7 storage heaters.
I did have storage heaters once in my youth when I lived in a block of 8 flats. However, as I was bracketed on 3 sides by old ladies, they were never on and my windows were permanently open.

ASHP sounds interesting, as does the grant, but looks disruptive. Further mulling required.

[AF62]

I was wondering if anyone had made the switch from gas to electric, and would wish to share any insights?

The old system boiler is about 40 years old, and both engineers so far don't seem keen to offer a quote for a replacement even though I am looking at a high end replacement with maintenance schedule.
They are the better of 2 local outfits, and I really don't want to fish the depths for someone who will want to throw a combi in for an easy job.
I like my bath, and the hot water tank, so am not interested in a combi. Experience from previous houses haven't shown them in a good light.

So i have arrived at the point of ....what if?..

May be worth perusing ASHP's (air source heat pumps)?

Domestic Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI)

AiY

Or air or ground source heat pumps seem to be covered by the recently announced Green Homes Grant scheme - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/apply-for-t ... ant-scheme

[88V8]

Our far from well-insulated C17 cottage is heated by storage heaters which I think go back to the 70s. No electronics, nothing much to go wrong. In nine years I've replaced a couple of elements and one stat.
We back them up with two woodburners.

Water by immersion.

There is a lot to be said for simplicity.

However, the former 2/1 relative prices of E7 day and night have become much less favourable since the Govt's interference with tariffs. We now pay 16.7p day and 10p night with Ovo, and will be looking to move suppliers at year end if I can find a better deal.

V8

[JohnB]

EDF have a very big discrepancy

Electricity day unit rate: 23.31p per kWh
Electricity night unit rate: 4.76p per kWh
Daily standing charge: 24.59p per day

And our white meter gives us 9 cheap hours a day.

[Mike4]

Our far from well-insulated C17 cottage is heated by storage heaters which I think go back to the 70s. No electronics, nothing much to go wrong. In nine years I've replaced a couple of elements and one stat.
We back them up with two woodburners.

Water by immersion.

There is a lot to be said for simplicity.

However, the former 2/1 relative prices of E7 day and night have become much less favourable since the Govt's interference with tariffs. We now pay 16.7p day and 10p night with Ovo, and will be looking to move suppliers at year end if I can find a better deal.

V8

I totally agree with all that. Mind you, simplicity is not good for business so I'm all for encouraging people to buy to most complicated stuff they can get. Heat pumps are a major step forward on this front, having far more to go wrong in them than yer average run-of-the-mill hydrogen boiler.

On the subject of unnecessary over-complication, one hot water cylinder manufacturer now makes them with a proper full-blown PCB inside the temperature thermostat. This is to force a one hour 62 degree C per week re-heat to kill off any legionella that might be brewing inside.

Getting back to leccy prices, I just looked up my own E7 tariff. EDF have changed me (without asking) to their I'm currently paying 17.53p day rate and 14.42p night rate. Hardly any difference! Worse, they are changing me to 19.84p day and 14.42p night rate on 30/9/20. It might be cheaper to keep the Honda genny off the boat running 24/7 and generating my own!

[richlist]

You could get a Tesla or similar battery installed then change electric supplier to one offering night rate at 10p a unit of less. Charge your battery at the cheap night rate and use the battery to run your house during the day.

[Mike4]

You could get a Tesla or similar battery installed then change electric supplier to one offering night rate at 10p a unit of less. Charge your battery at the cheap night rate and use the battery to run your house during the day.

True, but shelling out £16k to save £250 a year on my leccy bills doesn't really make a great deal of sense.

[rabbit]

My heat pump - if it happens - will draw heat from the river water, and (along with an induction hob) allow me to wave goodbye to gas.

I've an idea that counts as abstraction for which you'll need an Environment Agency licence (or something similar), the cost of which might be prohibitive. I could be wrong but I suggest checking before opening your wallet!

Besides, if everyone did it, the icebergs could become a hazard to navigation.

I've spent some time on the environment agency website, and I can't find anything (one way nor t'other) that might clarify whether that is indeed the case. They certainly don't cover any case in their examples where net extraction or change to flow is exactly zero!

Try this for size.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... lopers.pdf

I'm not sure how old the document is (DECC is no longer so-called) but I expect the principles are the same.

[Mike4]

I've an idea that counts as abstraction for which you'll need an Environment Agency licence (or something similar), the cost of which might be prohibitive. I could be wrong but I suggest checking before opening your wallet!

Besides, if everyone did it, the icebergs could become a hazard to navigation.

I've spent some time on the environment agency website, and I can't find anything (one way nor t'other) that might clarify whether that is indeed the case. They certainly don't cover any case in their examples where net extraction or change to flow is exactly zero!

Try this for size.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... lopers.pdf

I'm not sure how old the document is (DECC is no longer so-called) but I expect the principles are the same.

Good find. ISTR learning about that abstraction license requirement when I did a heat pump training course around about 1990. That document flow chart looks VERY familiar and I think this was handed out on the course.

The gov't may perhaps in the interim have dropped the requirement for an abstraction license in order to encourage take-up for environmental reasons, but I rather doubt it. That isn't the way governments work, in my limited experience.