Can a radiator ‘deflect’ heat?

[OLTB]

Morning all.

We need a new radiator for our kitchen/dining room as the existing one is far too small. I’ve run an online BTU check and this has calculated we need 4721 BTU for the room.

The main issue is that the radiator is situated 3 feet away from the stairs and I’m concerned that any heat generated will just disappear upstairs. Is there an attachment that you can put say on the right hand side of a tall upright radiator that would deflect heat towards the left hand side of the kitchen where it’s needed?

Thanks again, OLTB.

[bungeejumper]

I vaguely remember seeing fan assisted radiators, but I'm not sure they're the answer. Shurely, the proximity of the staircase would have been counted within the original calcs?

We have a 22 ft kitchen, but only enough wall space for one large radiator at the hall-ward end. We installed a small electric kickspace heater under one of the further kitchen cupboards, and it does a good job of supplementing the heat on cold mornings.

BJ

[Urbandreamer]

Is there an attachment that you can put say on the right hand side of a tall upright radiator that would deflect heat towards the left hand side of the kitchen where it’s needed?

Thanks again, OLTB.

Not as you describe it. Radiators are actually heat exchangers that work as convection heaters. They warm the air around them which then rises. Cold air being drawn in at floor level and hot air at the back exiting at the top, not so much at the side.

You can get radiator "shelves". These look like a shelf, but are actually a curved baffle that directs the warm are away from the area directly above the radiator and towards the centre of the room. You can also get radiator cabinets. They are mostly to look good, but do have solid sides. That would ensure that the heat only escapes at the top, but it would still then be drawn upstairs.

However, I have thought of a possible alternative, though it probably won't be cheap.
Hydronic plinth heaters. These are tiny "radiators" with a fan that fit under the kitchen units. The fan is what makes the difference.
https://darimo.co.uk/best-plinth-heater/

[OLTB]

Thanks both - BJ: the room has been extended (doubled in size) so perhaps the location of the radiator was fine for the original kitchen but not so for the extended one. UD - we do have a plinth fan heater on the far side (cold side) of the kitchen under the gas hob but it really doesn’t do too much in terms of kicking out heat so perhaps it is time to upgrade that.

Thanks again, OLTB.

[JohnB]

Other than installing Maxwell's Daemon at the bottom of the stairs I can't see how you can stop heat going up them. To get heat the far side of the room you need a radiator there, a fan to blow hot air or a radiant heater to shine IR.

[AsleepInYorkshire]

Morning all.

We need a new radiator for our kitchen/dining room as the existing one is far too small. I’ve run an online BTU check and this has calculated we need 4721 BTU for the room.

The main issue is that the radiator is situated 3 feet away from the stairs and I’m concerned that any heat generated will just disappear upstairs. Is there an attachment that you can put say on the right hand side of a tall upright radiator that would deflect heat towards the left hand side of the kitchen where it’s needed?

Thanks again, OLTB.

Is there anyway you can make the radiator larger to account for the stair space? If not can you add heat to the stairs via another radiator? Heat will always dissipate and move to fill the entire area. A cold area will diminish the impact of the radiator unless it is sized to meet the demand of all the space

AiY

[richlist]

You can now get tall radiators if your space is limited for width.
You can get single and double with convectors which increase the output.

[bungeejumper]

we do have a plinth fan heater on the far side (cold side) of the kitchen under the gas hob but it really doesn’t do too much in terms of kicking out heat so perhaps it is time to upgrade that.

Could be. They're really very useful gizmos, though they do benefit from careful installation. (Is the inward cold air flow maximal?) Our 25 year old Myson has been a great investment, but it took us several years of experimenting to find the best way of dampening the vibration. (You get it nicely silent, and then when you switch it on the damn thing gets warm and expands, so now the stresses have moved and the noises come from different places.)

Not necessarily as cost-effective in the long term as plumbing them into your central heating, but hey, the flexibility. Good luck with the project.

BJ

[OLTB]

Morning all.

We need a new radiator for our kitchen/dining room as the existing one is far too small. I’ve run an online BTU check and this has calculated we need 4721 BTU for the room.

The main issue is that the radiator is situated 3 feet away from the stairs and I’m concerned that any heat generated will just disappear upstairs. Is there an attachment that you can put say on the right hand side of a tall upright radiator that would deflect heat towards the left hand side of the kitchen where it’s needed?

Thanks again, OLTB.

Is there anyway you can make the radiator larger to account for the stair space? If not can you add heat to the stairs via another radiator? Heat will always dissipate and move to fill the entire area. A cold area will diminish the impact of the radiator unless it is sized to meet the demand of all the space

AiY

Thanks AiY - yes, having a look online for the recommended size radiator to generate the required BTUs, the new radiator will be at least double the current size. One design quirk that might be in our favour is that next to the radiator (just before the stairs start) we knocked through to the dining room. This means that there is an RSJ located and therefore the ceiling ‘drops’ by about 9 inches which could act as a sort of deflector for the hot air rising back into the room. It might not, but may help a little.

Cheers, OLTB.

[richfool]

Is there a radiator on the other side of the room (away from the stairs) that you could instead upgrade to a larger one, so that you are providing the heat well away from the stairs area? Though noted heat in the room will inevitably find its way upwards and onwards.

[OLTB]

Is there a radiator on the other side of the room (away from the stairs) that you could instead upgrade to a larger one, so that you are providing the heat well away from the stairs area? Though noted heat in the room will inevitably find its way upwards and onwards.

Hi richfool - thanks for the suggestion but there is no other radiator or anywhere else to site one unfortunately.

Cheers, OLTB.

[richfool]

Could you construct like a vertical shelf, to the right hand-side of the radiator, to form a baffle/reflector, or better still, create a casing around the radiator, in order to try and direct the heat outwards rather than upwards? The casing idea might present better in terms of appearance, and incorporate a small shelf on top, like a mantel shelf/fireplace surround. That sounds similar to Urbandreamer's suggestion.

[88V8]

..... we do have a plinth fan heater on the far side (cold side) of the kitchen under the gas hob but it really doesn’t do too much in terms of kicking out heat

A 2kw kick heater like the Myson KSU500 should knock out plenty of heat. Is yours 2kw, and is it actually switched to 2kw?

In ye olden days, staircases were boxed in with a door at the foot to keep the heat downstairs.
And can likewisely be done in the new days.

V8

[quelquod]

Realistically you can't passively 'direct' the heat from a radiator - despite their name they predominantly convect. The airflow is so gentle that it simply lacks the momentum to do anything other than convect or, if there is any, to follow existing flows such as from draughts or a fan. A baffle above it will only be effective as far as it reaches and then convection will take over, and a baffle to the side will affect only the smaller radiant proportion.

A fan sitting on the radiator could circulate the warm air across the room a bit but you'd have to decide if you'd want the noise and air movement.

[AsleepInYorkshire]

Morning all.

We need a new radiator for our kitchen/dining room as the existing one is far too small. I’ve run an online BTU check and this has calculated we need 4721 BTU for the room.

The main issue is that the radiator is situated 3 feet away from the stairs and I’m concerned that any heat generated will just disappear upstairs. Is there an attachment that you can put say on the right hand side of a tall upright radiator that would deflect heat towards the left hand side of the kitchen where it’s needed?

Thanks again, OLTB.

Is there anyway you can make the radiator larger to account for the stair space? If not can you add heat to the stairs via another radiator? Heat will always dissipate and move to fill the entire area. A cold area will diminish the impact of the radiator unless it is sized to meet the demand of all the space

AiY

Thanks AiY - yes, having a look online for the recommended size radiator to generate the required BTUs, the new radiator will be at least double the current size. One design quirk that might be in our favour is that next to the radiator (just before the stairs start) we knocked through to the dining room. This means that there is an RSJ located and therefore the ceiling ‘drops’ by about 9 inches which could act as a sort of deflector for the hot air rising back into the room. It might not, but may help a little.

Cheers, OLTB.

I wish I could say that the beam intrusion will create a partial heat wall. It won't I'm afraid. I'm assuming you are using a double radiator which obviously reduces the space it take up? Failing which it may help if you have some photographs of the area which could allow "us" to peruse?

AiY

[Mike4]

Is there an attachment that you can put say on the right hand side of a tall upright radiator that would deflect heat towards the left hand side of the kitchen where it’s needed?

No.

[Mike4]

we do have a plinth fan heater on the far side (cold side) of the kitchen under the gas hob but it really doesn’t do too much in terms of kicking out heat so perhaps it is time to upgrade that.

I agree with 88V8, there is something wrong with your kickspace heater and fixing this will resolve all your heating problems.

You say your heat calcs show the heat demand for the room is 4721 btu/hr. In modern money this converts to 1.4 kW and most kickspace heaters will chuck out spades more than this.

Model 500 from the Myson range happens to be rated at 1.4kW so if you fitted one of these, you could dispense with the radiator completely.

https://www.plumbworld.co.uk/myson-kick ... 03-1261277?

Or your existing plinth heater might just need servicing. Quite possibly just full of dust/lint clogging it up.

[Mike4]

We have a plinth fan heater from Smiths. It is plumbed into the heating system so doesn't gobble electricity like a regular fan heater. Only the fan runs off electricity. I think it's rated above 2kw thermal output. A rare bonus, they're made in the UK, which I like.

https://smithsep.co.uk/catalogue/space- ... th-heater/

RVF

As is the Myson 500 I suggested in the previous post.

It has a major advantage over the Smiths version, in that it is currently available to purchase

[OLTB]

Thanks everyone - I’ll have to unscrew the heater unit to see how powerful it is as there is no indication on the front of it (it was a cheap one from Homebase when we had the kitchen replaced in 2012).

Buy cheap pay twice

Cheers, OLTB.

[Mike4]

Buy cheap pay twice

This is true, but I tend to buy cheap to start with, in order to get an education about what to look for when attempting to 'buy right' on a second attempt.

Mainly because I find it surprisingly easy to buy expensive, pay twice, too!