New kitchen

[Steveam]

On another thread I received helpful advice about moving house … I’m now moved in and settling down. One of the first jobs that needs doing is a complete new kitchen. It’s a start to finish job and I want a designer through to installation service. The kitchen (area) is small but I want to maximise its usability which will mean stripping the whole thing and getting the shell right after which it will be a matter of tiling and installation. There are some (irritating) fixed points - the central heating boiler, the gas meter, drainage wall.

Although open to suggestions here are some requirements:

- vertical fridge/freezer
- dishwasher
- washing machine
- sink and drainer
- gas hob and quiet extractor
- oven (preferably eye level)
- microwave (preferably fitted)
- pull out larder

I’m London based. I’d like to find a company that will take on the whole job (“soup to nuts” or in this case “laying the table to loading the dishwasher”). I know service costs and will be realistic about this.

Any recommendations, thoughts, ideas will be much appreciated.

Best wishes,

Steve

[Maroochydore]

My first thought was; I wish you hadn't posted this today. Only this morning my wife said "we need a new kitchen". We went through this a couple of years ago and I managed to side-step the issue. I think this time my luck has run out.

Not too much to say about your requirements because all the things you listed are, in my opinion, must haves however where they go depends on the size and layout of the kitchen.

Things we found were that the big nationals are a bit of a rip-off. Not surprising considering the overheads they are carrying. Look on Checkatrade or small adds for kitchen fitters with good reviews/reputation and invite a couple around and pick their brains regarding layout/design. You may find you'd like to use one of them, first impressions/gut feel go a long way at this stage.

They may well offer a Howdens kitchen. Only downside I found was the secrecy. Howdens sell only to the trade fitter who can then charge what they like. Some fitters will supply at cost and make their money on the fitting. They will probably tell you if this is so. Others will put a mark-up on the Howden price and then charge fitting. Howdens own-brand appliances are all made in Turkey so I would question service/spares availability, I may be wrong. TrustPilot may give you some idea but treat with suspicion, especially glowing reports where the poster has only posted once.

Once you've got a plan try costing it online at, for example, DIY Kitchens. I found DIY Kitchens to be very good and visited their factory in Doncaster from our base on the south coast. I'm not sure they still offer a drop-in facility since covid. They won't plan your kitchen for you but the units are solid and come ready assembled. Other suppliers are available but this is the only one I've experienced apart from the nationals (Wickes, Magnet etc) who were all less than impressive to me.

If you go with a tradie try to agree a 10% retention for say 4 weeks to cover any issues that arrive post-installation. Weeping pipes, doors dropping etc. You'll never get them back to fix otherwise.

Once you've compared prices your decision is who to go with or fit yourself.

Good luck.

[AsleepInYorkshire]

On another thread I received helpful advice about moving house … I’m now moved in and settling down. One of the first jobs that needs doing is a complete new kitchen. It’s a start to finish job and I want a designer through to installation service. The kitchen (area) is small but I want to maximise its usability which will mean stripping the whole thing and getting the shell right after which it will be a matter of tiling and installation. There are some (irritating) fixed points - the central heating boiler, the gas meter, drainage wall.

Although open to suggestions here are some requirements:

- vertical fridge/freezer
- dishwasher
- washing machine
- sink and drainer
- gas hob and quiet extractor
- oven (preferably eye level)
- microwave (preferably fitted)
- pull out larder

I’m London based. I’d like to find a company that will take on the whole job (“soup to nuts” or in this case “laying the table to loading the dishwasher”). I know service costs and will be realistic about this.

Any recommendations, thoughts, ideas will be much appreciated.

Best wishes,

Steve

If I had a penny for every time I have given the following advice I would have retired many years ago. I have only been in construction for 42 years now, so my knowledge is very limited . At the tender age of 32 I established my own business building new homes. Regrettably ill health got in the way and I closed the business 8 years later. I planned and designed all my own homes and the kitchens within.

Please accept this as "tough love". If I'm honest I've got to a stage where I'm fed up watching people ignore what I say and stick to their own [quite suicidal] plans.

The first thing I note is you have a small kitchen. It's already made smaller by the existing boiler, drainage and gas meter. It will also be smaller than you think due to the position of window(s) and door(s).

However, your list of must have's seals your fate I'm afraid. You say you want to maximise your new kitchen usability. I call this function before form and I have to agree with you that in a kitchen this is a good approach. But in a small kitchen upright units will reduce worktop and make a small room "feel" smaller.

Without compromise you're not going to achieve your goal.

If your good at designing kitchens (or even half way) then you could design your own. I can't offer to help as it's Christmas Day tomorrow.

It would help if you told us about the room dimensions.

AiY(D)

[CliffEdge]

We got a quote from Howdens in collusion with a plumber. It was twice what Wickes quoted. We accepted Wickes and it's been okay.

Later we were told we should have gone back to Howdens and they would have matched Wickes.

Now, a suspicious mind might wonder if Howdens are deceitful. I couldn't possibly make that conclusion.

[redsturgeon]

Initial thoughts/questions.

How small is small?

Are there walls you could remove to gain space eg, combining the kitchen with a dining room?

How rigid are your requirements?

What is your budget?

Yes form follows function but have you really considered how you use your kitchen?

Do you really have to have the washing machine in the kitchen.

Will you eat i the kitchen?

A plan with dimensions would be useful.

I have planned and fitted several kitchen over the years and also had two high end kitchens. fitted by the pros, start to finish.

The most successful IMO was one that I designed and had a local cabinet maker make to my specifications.

John

[swill453]

If you're spending a lot of money anyway, can you not do something about your "irritations"? Can you get the gas meter and boiler moved elsewhere?

Scott.

[BullDog]

We did a full on kitchen refurbishment in 2021. The job was a lot more than fitting a kitchen so I project managed it as a little construction project. One thing I think might be worth doing is seeking out a local tadesperson who makes kitchen units from scratch. I wanted a layout that I had spent a long time developing and tweaking until it was perfect for what I wanted. That meant I couldn't utilise standard size carcases without unacceptable compromises. Eventually I did find someone who actually did make their own units. Everyone else who claimed they made bespoke kitchens just bought units in from various white label trade suppliers. They typically don't tell you that unless you pointedly ask the question. In the end I got exactly what I wanted with no compromise. Not a single unit is to standard dimensions. It's made exactly how I wanted it and so well put together it's going to far outlive me. Well worth the effort but probably the very opposite of a one stop new fitted kitchen. So neither an easy or cheap option but a good one to get exactly what you want. Probably the only way in actual fact.

If struggling to find space for central heating radiator I recommend a hydronic plinth heater by Smiths. They connect to your wet heating system but fit into the kitchen unit plinth and save a lot of space versus a regular radiator.

One more thing, I am rather anal with this stuff. I never buy built in appliances. For white goods except refrigeration, I only buy Miele. For refrigeration I only buy Liebherr (they make Miele refrigeration anyway). Highly recommend ceramic sink by a British company up in Darwin called Shaws. I only buy taps from Grohe. My unwillingness to compromise drives Mrs BD nuts but at least it severely limits the number of options out there when buying this stuff.

[robbelg]

You said kitchen "area" implying an open plan.Have you considered positioning units to "wall off" the kitchen?

Rob

[Lootman]

If you're spending a lot of money anyway, can you not do something about your "irritations"? Can you get the gas meter and boiler moved elsewhere?

Agreed and I would also move the washing machine, as there is no good reason why that needs to be in a kitchen. The last time I did laundry in my kitchen was 1984!

I have remodelled four kitchens over the years. One way to maximise space is to get custom-designed cabinets. Naturally they are more expensive, and figure a 3-month wait. But particularly for a small kitchen they really can maximise the space available.

The other suggestion is to make sure there is one person/contractor responsible for the entire job. That way you cut down on the finger-pointing that happens when the plumber blames the electrician, the tiler blames the carpenter, and the appliances don't fit in the designated spaces.

[pompeygazza]

We had ours designed and fitted by Wickes (contractors fitted it).

Things that have irritated us since:

There are no drawers in the under counter units apart from under the hob, doesn't everyone have a junk drawer (Sellotape, scissors plasters etc).

under counter dishwasher doesn't fully open as it clashes either with the kickboard or hits the handle on one of the cupboards if its not fully closed.

oven is a double oven but the top oven cannot be used by my wife as it's too high (she's 5" 2)

lots of the other cupboards are too high for that matter for her.

Make sure you have lots of sockets above the worktops, you'll be surprised how much stuff gets plugged in.

we moved the washing machine to the downstairs toilet as there was room and fitted a beer fridge above it.

[Gerry557]

Some good advice above but a couple of pictures and a plan is really needed. You could try modeling the space yourself with some graph paper and cut out fittings to size. Mask of areas with tape to see how it fits afterwards.

Wren might model it for you if you take some sizes but it will be expensive to actually have their kitchen and the fitting can cause issues. There might be others that do a plan.

Make sure you have a budget that can expand a bit. Unforseen problems or the fitter suggesting a really good idea. It tends to be a big initial outlay but you might kick yourself if you scrimp now only to wish you had paid out that bit extra at the time.

I'd also look for fittings that have long guarantees, 5 years or so. Again you might pay a bit extra but worth it longer term.

Hopefully you get a builder with a bit of flex and good at suggestions. Think about the working layout and try and get your working triangle close together.

You also need to decide on styles, modern gloss or maybe something more hard wearing if you have rowdy children etc. Also think about having any extras added now before it gets plastered. Adding underfloor heating, speakers in the ceiling or walls and TV points. Much cheaper to add speaker cables now than afterwards even if you don't use it now or do the rest at a later date.

You also have to think about gas v electric.