Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to johnstevens77,Anonymous,MyNameIsUrl,6Tricia,staffordian, for Donating to support the site

Noisy pipes?

Does what it says on the tin
Paupertas
Lemon Pip
Posts: 66
Joined: October 9th, 2019, 5:27 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 50 times

Noisy pipes?

#433948

Postby Paupertas » August 11th, 2021, 10:19 am

A few weeks ago we had a new power shower.

Since then we occasionally get a rather loud noise (humming type) when showering and after. It's not coming from the power shower as the noise continues if I switch the power off. The noise seems to be diminishing but is still there.

Anyone any idea of what it may be - air in the pipes or something?

I don't want to bring the plumber back over something trivial but it's something i've never heard before and we've lived here for over 30 years.

Thanks

richlist
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1116
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:54 pm
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 275 times

Re: Noisy pipes?

#434064

Postby richlist » August 11th, 2021, 1:48 pm

Noises are usually one of these:
* Ball valve in water tank.
* Unclipped pipes.
* Pump poorly insulated against floor/wall.
If it happens after you switch off its likely to be the ball valve slowly continuing to fill the tank.

bungeejumper
Lemon Half
Posts: 5799
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 2:30 pm
Has thanked: 1926 times
Been thanked: 2479 times

Re: Noisy pipes?

#434077

Postby bungeejumper » August 11th, 2021, 2:25 pm

Does the noise start off quietly and then swell to a crescendo, and then die away again? Agree that air in the pipes might be a reason. Does the noise stop at once if you turn the bath taps on? Is there an air bleed valve on your hot water tank?

BJ

staffordian
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1726
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 4:20 pm
Has thanked: 1100 times
Been thanked: 531 times

Re: Noisy pipes?

#434083

Postby staffordian » August 11th, 2021, 2:39 pm

When we had plumbing upgraded in our kitchen and bathroom the plumber fitted isolating valves like they were going out of fashion. Subsequently the pipes were much noisier than before, and I suspect the constriction to the flow caused by these valves is the culprit.

Do you have these in the supply to the shower?

Paupertas
Lemon Pip
Posts: 66
Joined: October 9th, 2019, 5:27 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 50 times

Re: Noisy pipes?

#434152

Postby Paupertas » August 11th, 2021, 6:29 pm

Hi BJ
Does the noise start off quietly and then swell to a crescendo, and then die away again?


Exactly this

Agree that air in the pipes might be a reason. Does the noise stop at once if you turn the bath taps on?


No, it can go on for a couple of minutes
Is there an air bleed valve on your hot water tank?


Not sure

Hi Staffordian

When we had plumbing upgraded in our kitchen and bathroom the plumber fitted isolating valves like they were going out of fashion. Subsequently the pipes were much noisier than before, and I suspect the constriction to the flow caused by these valves is the culprit.

Do you have these in the supply to the shower?


I’m not sure, it’s all a mystery to me

I’ve Googled and one possible cause could be too much water pressure – The water supply was turned off and on when the installation was done so perhaps it was set too high. I’ve turned it down and will try later tonight. If this fails I’ll ring the plumber.

Thanks everyone

jfgw
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1922
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:36 pm
Has thanked: 613 times
Been thanked: 737 times

Re: Noisy pipes?

#434218

Postby jfgw » August 11th, 2021, 11:08 pm

If it is humming and it happens when showering and it continues afterwards, I suggest you check the ball cock in the cold water tank. If the noise goes away if you push the arm down (or pull it up), a new washer should cure it (or a new valve if it is an old one).

I would expect the same noise to occur if water was drawn off from a hot tap (and possibly bathroom cold tap depending upon the plumbing). A power shower will drain a tank quicker than a tap, however.

staffordian wrote:When we had plumbing upgraded in our kitchen and bathroom the plumber fitted isolating valves like they were going out of fashion. Subsequently the pipes were much noisier than before, and I suspect the constriction to the flow caused by these valves is the culprit.


Are they turned fully on? If not, they are noisy. The screwdriver slot should be in line with the pipe. You can get full-bore isolating valves which should be effectively silent.


Julian F. G. W.

staffordian
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1726
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 4:20 pm
Has thanked: 1100 times
Been thanked: 531 times

Re: Noisy pipes?

#434250

Postby staffordian » August 12th, 2021, 7:23 am

jfgw wrote:
staffordian wrote:When we had plumbing upgraded in our kitchen and bathroom the plumber fitted isolating valves like they were going out of fashion. Subsequently the pipes were much noisier than before, and I suspect the constriction to the flow caused by these valves is the culprit.


Are they turned fully on? If not, they are noisy. The screwdriver slot should be in line with the pipe. You can get full-bore isolating valves which should be effectively silent.


Julian F. G. W.


Yes, they are now all fully open, though the plumber had left the ones supplying the bathroom basin partially closed, presumably because we seem to have quite high water pressure and it is rather too easy to fully open the tap and inadvertently splash water everywhere :D

I guess the ones fitted are not full bore, which are presumably dearer than the standard ones.

Paupertas
Lemon Pip
Posts: 66
Joined: October 9th, 2019, 5:27 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 50 times

Re: Noisy pipes?

#434397

Postby Paupertas » August 12th, 2021, 5:18 pm

Just spoke to the plumber who reminded me that he had changed the ball value on the cold water tank at the same time as replacing the power shower (the pipe from it was dripping). He's sure that it is this and will change it when passing.

thanks everyone

Paultry
Lemon Pip
Posts: 97
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:09 am
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: Noisy pipes?

#437249

Postby Paultry » August 25th, 2021, 9:09 am

I know I'm a bit late to the conversation, and I've written about it before, but I'll tell you of my experiences.

1. Isolating ball valves are worth their weight in gold when you come to fiddle with stuff years later. But use full bore ones, non-full bore are a quarter the price but can be very loud in use, I've also had the cheaper ones leak at their face. If space allows, put lever ones in.

2. If you have lever valves on your taps, an abrupt turn off will cause a momentary pressure wave and banging pipes. Just fit mini-rester devices, they act as mini expansion vessels. They are quite expensive in the UK at £20 or so, I had a pal bring a few over from Canada, they were around £5 each.

Paul

monabri
Lemon Half
Posts: 5500
Joined: January 7th, 2017, 9:56 am
Has thanked: 770 times
Been thanked: 1958 times

Re: Noisy pipes?

#437259

Postby monabri » August 25th, 2021, 9:59 am

I've not come across the "mini rester"....pictures below.

We've had (it comes, it goes) a very similar problem and I suspect it is a problem with the valve in the header tank in the loft...and the valve is occasionally not fully closing as evidenced by water coming out of the header tank vent pipe. As well as in the house, If one goes outside one can hear the " wailing" noise. I also found that opening the sink cold tap reduced the noise level and, after a few minutes, the noise stopped. In combination with the water from the header tank vent pipe, the problem comes and goes which makes me suspect the problem is in the ball valve.

The water pressure is quite high and we have the cheap isolator valves fitted but I don't think they are the problem as the valves are fitted at the end of a run of pipes before a tap and so one is just "isolating " a couple of feet of pipe length before the tap.


Pictures courtesy of Google search

Image

jfgw
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1922
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:36 pm
Has thanked: 613 times
Been thanked: 737 times

Re: Noisy pipes?

#437417

Postby jfgw » August 25th, 2021, 9:10 pm

I have known a sink tap to start clunking after a washing-machine was replaced. The old machine had a hot and cold fill. New machines have a cold fill only so the hot supply no longer had a length of rubber hose to absorb the clunks.

If you get clunking on quarter-turn cold taps, a washing-machine may be a suitable alternative to a mini-rester.

The content of this post may be influenced by the fact that I am at the first beer festival that I have been to for well over a year.


Julian F. G. W.

9873210
Lemon Slice
Posts: 448
Joined: December 9th, 2016, 6:44 am
Has thanked: 114 times
Been thanked: 114 times

Re: Noisy pipes?

#437470

Postby 9873210 » August 26th, 2021, 2:49 am

jfgw wrote:I have known a sink tap to start clunking after a washing-machine was replaced. The old machine had a hot and cold fill. New machines have a cold fill only so the hot supply no longer had a length of rubber hose to absorb the clunks.

If you get clunking on quarter-turn cold taps, a washing-machine may be a suitable alternative to a mini-rester.

The content of this post may be influenced by the fact that I am at the first beer festival that I have been to for well over a year.


Julian F. G. W.


Aren't you supposed to turn off the isolation valves when the machine is not in use?

Rubber hoses are prone to splitting, particularly if abused by being used as ad hoc accumulators to absorb water hammer.

DrFfybes
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1152
Joined: November 6th, 2016, 10:25 pm
Has thanked: 161 times
Been thanked: 538 times

Re: Noisy pipes?

#437505

Postby DrFfybes » August 26th, 2021, 9:10 am

jfgw wrote:If it is humming and it happens when showering and it continues afterwards, I suggest you check the ball cock in the cold water tank. If the noise goes away if you push the arm down (or pull it up), a new washer should cure it (or a new valve if it is an old one).

I would expect the same noise to occur if water was drawn off from a hot tap (and possibly bathroom cold tap depending upon the plumbing). A power shower will drain a tank quicker than a tap, however.


I think Julian might have it.....

When we fill the bath (gravity fed hot and cold from the loft) the header tanks empty quite slowly and refilling is generally able to keep up.

With the pumped showers, they empty the tanks much quicker, and at first we thoughtt we had a leak as when we went back downstairs we could hear water running for 10-15 min. This turned out to be the tanks refilling. A quick check showed the ball valve drops completely so with a shower so the valve is fully open and the tank fills at maximum rate, however as the bath fills slowly under gravity the ball valves only partially open and the 'filling' noise isn't apparent.

Paul

Paultry
Lemon Pip
Posts: 97
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:09 am
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: Noisy pipes?

#437513

Postby Paultry » August 26th, 2021, 9:35 am

It was a bit back when I used the mini-resters, now notice they are equiv price of £12 in Canadian tire.

Regardless of where your narrow isolater valves are, even adjacent to the tap, you will still get a noisy flow.

I recently rejigged our bathroom and used 22mm copper throughout, apart from where you branch off in 15mm, it is still not exactly quiet.

I was looking into the price of 35mm copper..........................ha ha


Paul

jfgw
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1922
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:36 pm
Has thanked: 613 times
Been thanked: 737 times

Re: Noisy pipes?

#437524

Postby jfgw » August 26th, 2021, 9:56 am

9873210 wrote:Aren't you supposed to turn off the isolation valves when the machine is not in use?

Rubber hoses are prone to splitting, particularly if abused by being used as ad hoc accumulators to absorb water hammer.


There are millions of these hoses in use and almost no-one turns off the valve. In many cases, the valve cannot be operated without pulling out the machine. I have not known a hose to split (although I have known flexible tap connectors to do so — would you isolate the supplies to everything fed via those, such as sink and basin taps, and toilets?). I have known the nut to split on a cheap hose, which is why I always buy them from an appliance shop, not one of the sheds.


Julian F. G. W.

Paultry
Lemon Pip
Posts: 97
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:09 am
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: Noisy pipes?

#437783

Postby Paultry » August 27th, 2021, 12:24 pm

We had a hose that split.

I mention this because it may be of concern to a number of folk.

The hot and cold flexible pipes that fed the kitchen sink tap were, and always are, very close to each other and often are in touch. The hoses were the typical rubber flexible tap connectors encased in a stainless steel braid. Our water pressure is around 9 bar in a sealed system so both hot and cold are pressurised. Normal use of the tap caused the pipes to move ever so slightly as the pressure in the pipes altered.

And then one day the missus is at the sink and starts screaming as very hot water gushes from under the sink and engulfs the kitchen. The two braided pipes had chaffed against each other until the braid was so thin that the rubber pipe burst on the hot feed.

We had literally just arrived home from being away for three weeks. I rather believed that it was using the tap that one last time that allowed the rupture, but who knows.

Thereafter I put in place two safety features. I now arrange such pipes so that they cannot touch each other, or at least place something between them. I also replaced the normal stopcock with an easily accessible lever valve, it really is so much easier to manipulate, and I turn off the water if we are away for more than a few days.

Paul

jfgw
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1922
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:36 pm
Has thanked: 613 times
Been thanked: 737 times

Re: Noisy pipes?

#437851

Postby jfgw » August 27th, 2021, 5:09 pm

When I buy a flexible tap connector or similar hose, I get a WRAS approved one. It is normally illegal to fit one that isn't, although they are readily available. Monobloc taps are often supplied with their own flexible tails, however.

I have just cut an old flexible tail — the wall thickness of the rubber liner is 1.8mm. I do not have a washing-machine hose to cut and measure but I found one online with a wall thickness of 3.5mm which seems about right: https://www.skybad.de/en/haas-zulaufsch ... htung.html . Washing-machine hoses are reinforced but the rubber liner in a flexible connector is not - it relies upon the integrity of the braid. It seems that many of these are not stainless and they can rust through (as well as get damaged).

I have seen various old washing-machine hoses in use including old black ones and very old grey ribbed ones. While I would not claim that they never burst, they are extremely reliable.


Julian F. G. W.


Return to “Building and DIY”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot] and 2 guests