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Appropriate person to contact?

Does what it says on the tin
monabri
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Appropriate person to contact?

#449365

Postby monabri » October 11th, 2021, 6:37 pm

We inherited a small lockup shop with a 1 bed flat above. The property is Victorian and single brick construction with an underground cellar.

After the heavy rain last week, the shop tenant contacted us about damp on the shop walls, especially evident along a wall which is a narrow alleyway between the shop and another building ( 3 feet wide). The damp is in patches, randomly dotted along the wall near ground level.

Externally, the wall is rendered and a cursory inspection indicates render down to ground level (bad?!). The alleyway is also flagged so water bounces onto the render ( :? ) - the situation is not helped by a downpipe from the roof which vents onto the top of a manhole cover ( i.e. into the alley) :? .

The question I have - who is the appropriate trade to contact for a professional assessment of the problem(s).


(I think that the solution would be to remove the flags, lower the ground to below the render ( probably the render has blown anyway so likely needs re-render, at least in part), consider installation of a drainage system ( French drain) to channel water to the manhole drainage pit, modify the downpipe to drain into said manhole drainage and not onto it's solid cover ( ffs!). ) eventually re render with lime mortar. I've not considered installation of a chemical DPC and , to be honest, think that they are of dubious benefit other than to the installer ( just an opinion , happy to be told to the contrary)! Oh, and the internal walls have been painted with a non breathable paint onto which hot air is condensing onto a cold wall. )

AsleepInYorkshire
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Re: Appropriate person to contact?

#449382

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » October 11th, 2021, 7:55 pm

If you have some pictures that would help enormously.

There may be alternatives to that you have mentioned

AiY

mc2fool
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Re: Appropriate person to contact?

#449397

Postby mc2fool » October 11th, 2021, 8:48 pm

monabri wrote:The question I have - who is the appropriate trade to contact for a professional assessment of the problem(s).

Oh, clearly what you need is a PCA Certificated Surveyor of Dampness in Buildings.

Or maybe not ... :D ... https://dampsurveys.com/

And hmmmm .... https://www.heritage-house.org/damp-and-condensation/damp-surveys-in-london/damp-survey-london.html

monabri
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Re: Appropriate person to contact?

#449398

Postby monabri » October 11th, 2021, 8:51 pm

AsleepInYorkshire wrote:If you have some pictures that would help enormously.

There may be alternatives to that you have mentioned

AiY


Internal view...barbers shop, very warm. I was in the day before this picture was taken for a haircut and the damp patches were not evident.
The blue ' panelling is fake. The wall is painted blue and battoning has been affixed to the wall to give an illusion of wooden panelling. The wall above seems dry.

Image

On the other side of the blue wall, single brick, is the alleyway. No air bricks visible.

In the alleyway the render goes down to the ground. The vegetation is not helping. The downpipe drains on to the top of the drain cover. The rendering looks to have been applied ad-hoc! ( by a blind man?).

Image

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Re: Appropriate person to contact?

#449422

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » October 11th, 2021, 10:18 pm

This is difficult as I would really need to see this one (or have a few more photographs).

I am not sure the water staining is all being caused from water ingress from the outside. However, if it is, or part of it is I'm not sure the costs involved in reducing the levels externally will be less than reviewing an internal solution.

If the option to reduce the external levels is considered there would be a need to damp proof the external wall. The invert level on the manhole shown may be very shallow and limit the depth the path can be reduced to. And you would probably need to mess around with the render.

There's an alternative I think. Remove the internal "wooden panels". Replace them with a metal partition wall. This sounds daft I know. But I've used it effectively on old barn conversions. I believe Minster Insulation (Jewson) provide a specific product just for this. I'm sure there will be alternatives on the market to. The theory is quite simple. The wall remains wet. As a general rule water can rise up a wall to about a metre high. It's possible that the "wooden panels" have been used to "stand off from the wet walls in the same way a metal partition would. But without a suitable damp proof membrane behind them water continues to ingress.

The new wall is made from a metal frame and lined with silver-foiled plasterboard to the front. The new wall is constructed 50mm off the existing "damp" wall and attached with metal connectors. So no water can travel between the two. You will also need a damp proof course under the base plate of the new wall and that can lap upwards at the rear.

The old wall remains damp. The new wall remains dry as water cannot travel across the connectors. They will have a slight fall on them when fixed.

AiY

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Re: Appropriate person to contact?

#449437

Postby Dod101 » October 12th, 2021, 12:06 am

To monabri.; Since this has been inherited, I think the solution is to sell the property at best and soonest. Apply the proceeds to buying a share of your choice. Problem solved!

Dod

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Re: Appropriate person to contact?

#449466

Postby bungeejumper » October 12th, 2021, 9:29 am

The question remains as to why that downpipe wasn't run straight on into the drain where the cover is? Many possibilities, of course, but the ones that occur to me are:

1) That the drain under the cover is a foul water run, and that somebody in officialdom has objected to letting a rainwater pipe flow into it. (This was once a common practice in older buildings, but it doesn't pass muster these days.)

2) That somebody brought the wrong drain cover along on the day, and bodged it by putting a shoe onto the open downpipe, so that it became somebody else's problem. :|

3) That the drain under the cover is blocked, or maybe that it's a dead section that isn't in use any more.

What's the cellar like?

BJ

monabri
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Re: Appropriate person to contact?

#449467

Postby monabri » October 12th, 2021, 9:32 am

bungeejumper wrote:The question remains as to why that downpipe wasn't run straight on into the drain where the cover is? Many possibilities, of course, but the ones that occur to me are:

1) That the drain under the cover is a foul water run, and that somebody in officialdom has objected to letting a rainwater pipe flow into it. (This was once a common practice in older buildings, but it doesn't pass muster these days.)

2) That somebody brought the wrong drain cover along on the day, and bodged it by putting a shoe onto the open downpipe, so that it became somebody else's problem. :|

3) That the drain under the cover is blocked, or maybe that it's a dead section that isn't in use any more.

What's the cellar like?

BJ


Interesting about (1) but I suspect (2). Cellar is damp...but I'm not sure to what extent.

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Re: Appropriate person to contact?

#449474

Postby redsturgeon » October 12th, 2021, 10:00 am

What does the lease say?

Isn't a full repairing lease normal for business tenants?

John

monabri
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Re: Appropriate person to contact?

#449481

Postby monabri » October 12th, 2021, 10:35 am

redsturgeon wrote:What does the lease say?

Isn't a full repairing lease normal for business tenants?

John


Landlord is responsible for structural issues (such as damp).

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Re: Appropriate person to contact?

#449648

Postby 88V8 » October 12th, 2021, 8:16 pm

The render may have bridged the damp course, assuming there is one.

Other than lowering the ground level, which is only going to be a problem if it is higher than indoors &/or has bridged the damp course, I think you are on track with your proposals to remove the plastic paint and stop the splash from the downpipe.
A land drain or at least gravel to the side may help, but again if there is a damp course then a bit of rain-related splash should not really be an issue.

Again.... if there is a dpc then cement render above the dpc will do no harm. It's only harmful on a wall that needs to breathe.

You really need to look for the dpc... should be about 6" above ground. Hammer, chisel...

There should be air bricks if it's a suspended floor, but if it's a solid floor, then not. Air bricks on the frontage? And rearage?

Single brick... presume you mean 9", not single skin.

V8


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