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Goodbye to that.

Does what it says on the tin
88V8
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Goodbye to that.

#500441

Postby 88V8 » May 14th, 2022, 12:45 pm

'Alas, poor primer'... addressing the last tin in the shop... all other tins being labelled combination Primer and Undercoat.

And so, another stone in the wall of the past is demolished by the lazys, who can't be bothered with two coats and are happy to kid themselves that one will do.

Fortunately I have little need of primer, and with care this tin will see me out. Also, I still have an unopened tin of lead primer which I am saving for... well, I dunno really, the aftermath of the zombie apocalypse?

The small silver lining was at the till, where the tin came up at £4, the whizzy new combination tins being £22.

V8 ...harrumph

NotSure
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Re: Goodbye to that.

#500459

Postby NotSure » May 14th, 2022, 2:55 pm

Here you go!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Johnstones-307951-Purpose-Primer-White/dp/B00Q4LR8S6/ref=asc_df_B00Q4LR8S6/?th=1

Jonhstone's and Zinsser still make primers, but they do seem to be becoming a specialist item, and priced accordingly.

Bminusrob
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Re: Goodbye to that.

#500507

Postby Bminusrob » May 14th, 2022, 9:00 pm

I have been very happy with primer from Mike Wye. They are specialists in paint for older properties. They are incredibly helpful and knowledgeable on the phone, and in my case, I can drive to their HQ, as it is only about 8 miles from where I live.

https://www.mikewye.co.uk/product/secil ... mer-ad-25/

scotview
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Re: Goodbye to that.

#500512

Postby scotview » May 14th, 2022, 9:33 pm

88V8 wrote:'Alas, poor primer'...


We use exclusively water based paints now, virtually any product is acceptable, Tesco, B&Q, Dulux, Johnstones etc.

No general primer needed, doesn't yellow, brushes wash out in water, odourless, mix with sand/cement for disposal of left over paint. Have used it on wood, metal and even on UPVc windows. Amazing adhesion.

The only primer we use is Zinsser B-I-N. We use it locally on new wood to prevent knots from leaching through, it works. Think it can be used on an existing oil based coat prior to applying a water based top coat.

Mike4
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Re: Goodbye to that.

#500514

Postby Mike4 » May 14th, 2022, 9:53 pm

scotview wrote:No general primer needed, doesn't yellow, brushes wash out in water, odourless, mix with sand/cement for disposal of left over paint. Have used it on wood, metal and even on UPVc windows. Amazing adhesion.


Not in my experience.

Chips off or rubs off as soon as soon as you look at it....

Dod101
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Re: Goodbye to that.

#500516

Postby Dod101 » May 14th, 2022, 10:02 pm

Mike4 wrote:
scotview wrote:No general primer needed, doesn't yellow, brushes wash out in water, odourless, mix with sand/cement for disposal of left over paint. Have used it on wood, metal and even on UPVc windows. Amazing adhesion.


Not in my experience.

Chips off or rubs off as soon as soon as you look at it....


I too am surprised by scotview's enthusiasm for water based paint. I hat the stuff, except of course for emulsion. I use Johnstone's oil paint for woodwork and find it works a treat, much better than say Dulux these days.

Dod

scotview
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Re: Goodbye to that.

#500517

Postby scotview » May 14th, 2022, 10:06 pm

Dod101 wrote:
I too am surprised by scotview's enthusiasm for water based paint. I hate the stuff, except of course for emulsion.

Dod


You can actually use emulsion on woodwork quite successfully, if you dont need a high gloss finish.

I cannot comment on the success of water based paint for a high gloss finish though, but I'm sure the technology exists.

Dod101
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Re: Goodbye to that.

#500518

Postby Dod101 » May 14th, 2022, 10:09 pm

scotview wrote:
Dod101 wrote:
I too am surprised by scotview's enthusiasm for water based paint. I hate the stuff, except of course for emulsion.

Dod


You can actually use emulsion on woodwork quite successfully, if you dont need a high gloss finish.

I cannot comment on the success of water based paint for a high gloss finish though, but I'm sure the technology exists.


Didn't think of that. Does it put up with the usual knocks and so on that woodwork as in say doors get?

Dod

scotview
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Re: Goodbye to that.

#500519

Postby scotview » May 14th, 2022, 10:14 pm

We've had on some doors skirtings for about 6 years or more, cannot remember which ones. Can't tell the difference.

All paint chips, especially on external corners. Thing is, with water based its a lot less hassle to repair and wash out the brush. Local repair is invisible since there isn't adjacent yellowing. Also has longer shelf life than oil based paint, quick stir and its good to go.

That's just my experience though, each to their own.

88V8
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Re: Goodbye to that.

#500549

Postby 88V8 » May 15th, 2022, 10:35 am

I must admit that externally I've begun using water-base. After years of oil painting... the thing is, I like to see paint - preferably not white - and I'm happy painting but I hate repainting. That sense of futility that it hasn't lasted and will at some time need doing again.
And oil, eventually, cracks. Especially on south facings.
Even lead, although that lasts longer.
On our previous house the lead paint on the north front was still good after 30 years. To the south, I was lucky to get 4-5 years. The sun is a great destroyer.

So outdoors I've begun using Bedec waterbase Multi-Surface Paint. Over their primer.
On some feather-edge cladding, I've used their Barn Black.
OK so far, but it's only been four years.

The exception is some black garage doors where I've used linseed, but that's another ball game.

I don't at all like painting with water-base. It doesn't brush out as well as oil and I wouldn't use it for a large area such as a door. Dries too fast so one can't overbrush the meets.
Somewhat less unpleasant to use now I've discovered that one has to use a synthetic brush, the other key point is to stop every 30 mins or so and wash out the brush or the paint dries in the brush and it becomes claggy and 'orrible.

Indoors though, I only use oil. Just redid a window, burnt off, knot, prime, undercoat, the whole bit.
Sikkens Satura, which is sort of satiny. For the sill I'll use gloss so that will be Sikkens AZ Rubbol. I like to include some areas of gloss, especially on sills for its superior wear properties, but also for highlights, as it were.
In our previous house I used gloss for skirtings, perhaps architraves, picture rails.

None of which exist in our cottage as they hadn't been invented or if they had the builders hadn't heard about them and didn't have any paint to paint them if they had.

V8

Our previous house, some gloss highlights on the picture rail

Image

scotview
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Re: Goodbye to that.

#500554

Postby scotview » May 15th, 2022, 10:58 am

88V8 wrote:
Our previous house, some gloss highlights on the picture rail


Nice ! Lots of patience there.

stewamax
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Re: Goodbye to that.

#500556

Postby stewamax » May 15th, 2022, 11:15 am

Two coats of Dulux Weathershield (plus primer and two coats of undercoat - all applied in thinly) seems to be the only stuff that doesn't flake when applied to my south-west facing woodwork that gets hammered by the sun. I take it back to the bare wood every few years - hence the primer. I never use primer-undercoat.
But even Weathershield is not man enough for the exterior thresholds on my doors and French windows, and for these I use Sadolin stain: the colour range is limited but this is worth ignoring given that the stuff just works; 'yacht varnish' eat your heart out! I have also use a Johnstone's equivalent with good results.

One sad experience: I was trying ham-fistedly to get hold of a brand new large tin of Weathershield in my garage when it came unshipped from the shelf, fell, and while falling dislodged my only other large new can of Weathershield. Both fell on the concrete floor, the lids came off, and my garage floor was treated to an unusual but unexpected new colour. Given how much Dulux charge, it was like watching a tide of money slowly and viscously coming in.

NotSure
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Re: Goodbye to that.

#500559

Postby NotSure » May 15th, 2022, 11:38 am

scotview wrote:
88V8 wrote:'Alas, poor primer'...

The only primer we use is Zinsser B-I-N.


The heavy artillery! Since I only use it when needed, which is rarely, I generally use a super-cheap eBay paintbrush which I then wipe off on newspaper and sling in the bin. Doesn't sound very green, but I have a suspicion that the solvents and energy required to clean the brush is even less green still.

scotview
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Re: Goodbye to that.

#500560

Postby scotview » May 15th, 2022, 11:52 am

NotSure wrote:
The heavy artillery! Since I only use it when needed, which is rarely, I generally use a super-cheap eBay paintbrush which I then wipe off on newspaper and sling in the bin. Doesn't sound very green, but I have a suspicion that the solvents and energy required to clean the brush is even less green still.


If you put the brush in a thin poly bag, like you get your veggies in, and wrap it to keep the air out, you can get about three or four uses till it hardens. This is useful if you need to cover particularly dark knots.

funduffer
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Re: Goodbye to that.

#500605

Postby funduffer » May 15th, 2022, 5:20 pm

I recently bought some plain wooden internal doors, to fit in existing frames.

I painted them with Ronseal water based primer+undercoat (2 coats) and then 2 coats of water based gloss (Valspar).

Certainly easy to paint and clean up. However…….

The brush strokes really stand out on the finished surface.

The gloss finish is not very glossy - more eggshell than high gloss.

It is very white, and whiter than the surrounding frames which were painted in oil based gloss 5 years ago…..so another job.

So OK, but not altogether happy with it.

FD

bungeejumper
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Re: Goodbye to that.

#500608

Postby bungeejumper » May 15th, 2022, 5:27 pm

stewamax wrote:One sad experience: I was trying ham-fistedly to get hold of a brand new large tin of Weathershield in my garage when it came unshipped from the shelf, fell, and while falling dislodged my only other large new can of Weathershield. Both fell on the concrete floor, the lids came off, and my garage floor was treated to an unusual but unexpected new colour. Given how much Dulux charge, it was like watching a tide of money slowly and viscously coming in.

Ouch. :| I just paid £46 for two and a half litres of Weathershield, and I can doubly feel your pain!

Have to agree, though, that Weathershield is the bees' knees when it comes to defending south-facing woodwork against strong sun or heavy traffic. Without it (and the occasional modicum of plastic paddng) there's no way we'd have been able to keep our 70 year old windows in shape the way we have. The surveyor thought they were going to need replacing when we bought the house, and that was thirty years ago. Result. :D

I can remember my father sieving a can of spilled and scooped-up paint through my mother's old tights, he was so keen not to see it going to waste. Yes, he did ask her permission first, and no, she wasn't wearing them at the time. Shame on you all for even asking. :|

BJ

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Re: Goodbye to that.

#500630

Postby kiloran » May 15th, 2022, 8:38 pm

funduffer wrote:I recently bought some plain wooden internal doors, to fit in existing frames.

I painted them with Ronseal water based primer+undercoat (2 coats) and then 2 coats of water based gloss (Valspar).

Certainly easy to paint and clean up. However…….

The brush strokes really stand out on the finished surface.

The gloss finish is not very glossy - more eggshell than high gloss.

It is very white, and whiter than the surrounding frames which were painted in oil based gloss 5 years ago…..so another job.

So OK, but not altogether happy with it.

FD

For water-based gloss, I prefer to use a roller instead of a brush wherever possible. Seems to work quite well

--kiloran

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Re: Goodbye to that.

#500688

Postby DrFfybes » May 16th, 2022, 8:53 am

scotview wrote:
Dod101 wrote:
I too am surprised by scotview's enthusiasm for water based paint. I hate the stuff, except of course for emulsion.

Dod


You can actually use emulsion on woodwork quite successfully, if you dont need a high gloss finish.



You need a good primer first though :) ( especially if it has previously been painted with oil based gloss.)

I cannot comment on the success of water based paint for a high gloss finish though, but I'm sure the technology exists


It doesn't.

88V8 wrote:And so, another stone in the wall of the past is demolished by the lazys, who can't be bothered with two coats and are happy to kid themselves that one will do


Only 2?

I was taught to use undercoat as a 'filler', so use a couple of coats, and sometimes if there were chips to fill I'd touch them in after the primer but berfore a full undercoat.

Paul

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Re: Goodbye to that.

#500704

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » May 16th, 2022, 9:54 am

Shall I not bother with the usual description in a bill of quantities for painting preambles.

Prime, knot and stop - now replaced with thin air :lol:

AiY(D)


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