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Scaffolding for a broken window?

Does what it says on the tin
bungeejumper
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Scaffolding for a broken window?

#500983

Postby bungeejumper » May 17th, 2022, 2:18 pm

Is anybody up to date on the need for scaffolding when replacing window glass on the first floor of a house? We have a massive compound crack in ours, thanks to an errant pigeon with no sense of direction, so it'll need to be replaced. But would I be right in thinking that a scaffold will probably be mandatory?

I ought to say that there's a complication here which means I'll need a builder, and not a normal glazier. The broken glass pane doesn't sit inside a conventional window frame at all - instead, it's mortared directly into the surrounding stonework, Victorian-style. (With lime mortar, naturally. :| ) The fitter will be able to knock out the glass and channel out the mortar while standing safely inside the house - but when it comes to offering up the pane from the outside (four feet deep by 18 inches wide), I'm expecting that he'll insist on a scaffold? Oh deep joy.

The reason I'm asking is that it seems clear that my buildings insurance will cover this job (albeit with a £200 excess), but they're asking me for quotes and a plan of action, which I haven't got yet.

It could have been worse. :) But glad for anyone's experiences. TIA

BJ

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Re: Scaffolding for a broken window?

#500989

Postby mc2fool » May 17th, 2022, 2:46 pm


AsleepInYorkshire
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Re: Scaffolding for a broken window?

#500992

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » May 17th, 2022, 2:54 pm

bungeejumper wrote:Is anybody up to date on the need for scaffolding when replacing window glass on the first floor of a house? We have a massive compound crack in ours, thanks to an errant pigeon with no sense of direction, so it'll need to be replaced. But would I be right in thinking that a scaffold will probably be mandatory?

I ought to say that there's a complication here which means I'll need a builder, and not a normal glazier. The broken glass pane doesn't sit inside a conventional window frame at all - instead, it's mortared directly into the surrounding stonework, Victorian-style. (With lime mortar, naturally. :| ) The fitter will be able to knock out the glass and channel out the mortar while standing safely inside the house - but when it comes to offering up the pane from the outside (four feet deep by 18 inches wide), I'm expecting that he'll insist on a scaffold? Oh deep joy.

The reason I'm asking is that it seems clear that my buildings insurance will cover this job (albeit with a £200 excess), but they're asking me for quotes and a plan of action, which I haven't got yet.

It could have been worse. :) But glad for anyone's experiences. TIA

BJ

Can you provide the following please?

Size of glass

Height of window cill from ground outside - doesn't need to be millimetre perfect - count the number of course of bricks and multiply by the height of one course.

Thank you

AiY(D)

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Re: Scaffolding for a broken window?

#501012

Postby Mike4 » May 17th, 2022, 4:22 pm

bungeejumper wrote:Is anybody up to date on the need for scaffolding when replacing window glass on the first floor of a house? We have a massive compound crack in ours, thanks to an errant pigeon with no sense of direction, so it'll need to be replaced. But would I be right in thinking that a scaffold will probably be mandatory?

I ought to say that there's a complication here which means I'll need a builder, and not a normal glazier. The broken glass pane doesn't sit inside a conventional window frame at all - instead, it's mortared directly into the surrounding stonework, Victorian-style. (With lime mortar, naturally. :| ) The fitter will be able to knock out the glass and channel out the mortar while standing safely inside the house - but when it comes to offering up the pane from the outside (four feet deep by 18 inches wide), I'm expecting that he'll insist on a scaffold? Oh deep joy.

The reason I'm asking is that it seems clear that my buildings insurance will cover this job (albeit with a £200 excess), but they're asking me for quotes and a plan of action, which I haven't got yet.

It could have been worse. :) But glad for anyone's experiences. TIA

BJ



Quicker and easier might be a "cherry picker", if you can get one into the garden and near the window.

Random example here:
https://www.nationaltoolhireshops.co.uk ... cker-hire/

AsleepInYorkshire
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Re: Scaffolding for a broken window?

#501014

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » May 17th, 2022, 4:30 pm

bungeejumper wrote:Is anybody up to date on the need for scaffolding when replacing window glass on the first floor of a house? We have a massive compound crack in ours, thanks to an errant pigeon with no sense of direction, so it'll need to be replaced. But would I be right in thinking that a scaffold will probably be mandatory?

I ought to say that there's a complication here which means I'll need a builder, and not a normal glazier. The broken glass pane doesn't sit inside a conventional window frame at all - instead, it's mortared directly into the surrounding stonework, Victorian-style. (With lime mortar, naturally. :| ) The fitter will be able to knock out the glass and channel out the mortar while standing safely inside the house - but when it comes to offering up the pane from the outside (four feet deep by 18 inches wide), I'm expecting that he'll insist on a scaffold? Oh deep joy.

The reason I'm asking is that it seems clear that my buildings insurance will cover this job (albeit with a £200 excess), but they're asking me for quotes and a plan of action, which I haven't got yet.

It could have been worse. :) But glad for anyone's experiences. TIA

BJ

Sorry BJ ... I didn't read you post very well did I? Duh :oops:

https://www.hss.com/hire/p/mitower-plus

AiY(D)

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Re: Scaffolding for a broken window?

#501051

Postby BullDog » May 17th, 2022, 6:49 pm

Second vote for a cherry picker.

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Re: Scaffolding for a broken window?

#501075

Postby Mike4 » May 17th, 2022, 9:02 pm

BullDog wrote:Second vote for a cherry picker.


Yes, the same safety and cost of scaffolding plus the speed and convenience of a ladder!

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Re: Scaffolding for a broken window?

#501095

Postby MrFoolish » May 17th, 2022, 10:23 pm

Perhaps I'm missing something, but isn't this a detail for the builder to worry about?

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Re: Scaffolding for a broken window?

#501097

Postby redsturgeon » May 17th, 2022, 10:29 pm

Why would you use a cherry picker when a simple tower will do the job at a much lower cost?

John

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Re: Scaffolding for a broken window?

#501100

Postby Dod101 » May 17th, 2022, 10:37 pm

MrFoolish wrote:Perhaps I'm missing something, but isn't this a detail for the builder to worry about?


I agree. So much on this site seems to be about people wanting to tell the builder what to do rather than for him/them to provide a price to do the job.

Dod

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Re: Scaffolding for a broken window?

#501128

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » May 18th, 2022, 1:08 am

Having spent 42 years in construction in a commercial capacity I'd like to raise a few points please

  1. A cherry picker is a very expensive way of dealing with this issue. Not only that the operator needs to be fully qualified to use this kind of plant. It's highly likely that not only is a cherry picker going to be far more expensive but it will also do more damage to the grounds it is parked upon.
  2. It is not up to the builder to decide which is the best method of dealing with the problem. The customer cannot rely on ignorance if an accident does occur.
  3. A mobile platform does, if I recall correctly, come under TG20 the guidance and regulations for the design and use of scaffolding. The use of a tower does require the operative to carry the suitable tickets to say they are trained to set up and use the tower correctly.
  4. The insurance company is asking BJ to take responsibility for the works and I find that disturbing. However, that's for BJ, the small print and the insurance company to sort out.
  5. A tower will suffice for these works. It will need to be "compliant".
  6. BJ ... pleas pm me if you need any pointers ... happy to help.
AiY(D)

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Re: Scaffolding for a broken window?

#501141

Postby pochisoldi » May 18th, 2022, 7:37 am

Are we talking about replacing a double glazing unit?
If yes, is it possible to get the unit into the room via the stairs?
If the answer to both questions is yes, then external work at height isn't needed as the unit should be replaceable from inside the property.

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Re: Scaffolding for a broken window?

#501159

Postby bungeejumper » May 18th, 2022, 8:48 am

Dod101 wrote:
MrFoolish wrote:Perhaps I'm missing something, but isn't this a detail for the builder to worry about?

I agree. So much on this site seems to be about people wanting to tell the builder what to do rather than for him/them to provide a price to do the job.

Well, this poster is asking because he's got to give his insurance company an outline of the job and a rough estimate of the cost right now, but he hasn't had any quotes yet. The work itself will probably cost less than £400; a scaffold could easily triple that. Under the circumstances, it seemed only reasonable to ask whether anyone could give me some pointers as to whether a scaffold was likely to be required? I'm sorry if that offends anyone's sense of propriety. :|

[Edit]: FWIW, whenever our company hires painters, builders etc for our business property, we are expected to arrange the scaffolding ourselves, not the contractor. And then the scaffolding company applies for the pavement licences, etc. Pretty normal among smaller operators, I think? At least, in this part of the world.

BJ

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Re: Scaffolding for a broken window?

#501165

Postby BullDog » May 18th, 2022, 8:59 am

bungeejumper wrote:
Dod101 wrote:
MrFoolish wrote:Perhaps I'm missing something, but isn't this a detail for the builder to worry about?

I agree. So much on this site seems to be about people wanting to tell the builder what to do rather than for him/them to provide a price to do the job.

Well, this poster is asking because he's got to give his insurance company an outline of the job and a rough estimate of the cost right now, but he hasn't had any quotes yet. The work itself will probably cost less than £400; a scaffold could easily triple that. Under the circumstances, it seemed only reasonable to ask whether anyone could give me some pointers as to whether a scaffold was likely to be required? I'm sorry if that offends anyone's sense of propriety. :|

[Edit]: FWIW, whenever our company hires painters, builders etc for our business property, we are expected to arrange the scaffolding ourselves, not the contractor. And then the scaffolding company applies for the pavement licences, etc. Pretty normal among smaller operators, I think? At least, in this part of the world.

BJ

In the domestic world, it may be a bit different to commercial contracts? I recently had three weeks work around and on the roof at the BD estate. The roofing contractors included the scaffolding and other third party services within their quotation. I reckon that's more the routine for domestic repair work?

bungeejumper
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Re: Scaffolding for a broken window?

#501168

Postby bungeejumper » May 18th, 2022, 9:03 am

pochisoldi wrote:Are we talking about replacing a double glazing unit?
If yes, is it possible to get the unit into the room via the stairs?
If the answer to both questions is yes, then external work at height isn't needed as the unit should be replaceable from inside the property.

Thanks Pochisoldi, but this house pre-dates sealed double glazing units by about 150 years. ;) Oddly, though, these sealed-in single panes are highly heat-efficient in ways that the EPC boys have never properly understood. We have around fifty of them, and our heating costs (normally £2,000 a year) are barely more than an equivalent modern five-bedder. It seems a shame that a ruddy pigeon could upset that cost advantage. :lol:

BJ

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Re: Scaffolding for a broken window?

#501196

Postby 88V8 » May 18th, 2022, 10:37 am

bungeejumper wrote:....the pane from the outside (four feet deep by 18 inches wide)

Well, you yourself could chip out the mortar, just leave a bit at each corner to hold the glass in, and then re-mortar it?
I dare say as an olde property owner you're familiar with lime work.... so then it's a glazing question and I would ask a glazier.
In fact, I would ask one anyway, a company rather than an individual perhaps, they may have access to someone who can do the mortaring.

Me, a sheet of glass that size and weight on a ladder hmmm. And I presume it's age-appropriate, not float, so machine-drawn perhaps which tends to be on the thin side. Perhaps if I could sling it with some rope and a pulley from above.

V8

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Re: Scaffolding for a broken window?

#501212

Postby mc2fool » May 18th, 2022, 11:07 am

Dod101 wrote:
MrFoolish wrote:Perhaps I'm missing something, but isn't this a detail for the builder to worry about?

I agree. So much on this site seems to be about people wanting to tell the builder what to do rather than for him/them to provide a price to do the job.

Dod

Beh, OTOH it pays well to be familiar with the problem and the options, if nothing else to avoid getting fleeced. I had a recent example with an elderly and not-at-all-DIYish neighbour who told me they hadn't had hot water for a couple of days (a good old vented immersion heater), and he'd had a plumber over to give him a quote, who'd given him all sorts of BS about the whole kaboodle needing to be replaced and a quote of £500, which he lowered to a mere £350 when my neighbour looked aghast. Luckily my neighbour told him he was going to get more quotes.

So I said, let me take a look, and went over with a multimeter and a screwdriver and within 3 minutes determined it was the thermostat, which I pulled out and gave to my neighbour with instructions to go to the local plumbing supplies shop and "ask for one of those". He did and on return I fitted it for him and job done. Less than 10 minutes on the job and £9 for the part (plus the several beers he gave me in gratitude!).

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Re: Scaffolding for a broken window?

#501218

Postby Dod101 » May 18th, 2022, 11:17 am

mc2fool wrote:
Dod101 wrote:
MrFoolish wrote:Perhaps I'm missing something, but isn't this a detail for the builder to worry about?

I agree. So much on this site seems to be about people wanting to tell the builder what to do rather than for him/them to provide a price to do the job.

Dod

Beh, OTOH it pays well to be familiar with the problem and the options, if nothing else to avoid getting fleeced. I had a recent example with an elderly and not-at-all-DIYish neighbour who told me they hadn't had hot water for a couple of days (a good old vented immersion heater), and he'd had a plumber over to give him a quote, who'd given him all sorts of BS about the whole kaboodle needing to be replaced and a quote of £500, which he lowered to a mere £350 when my neighbour looked aghast. Luckily my neighbour told him he was going to get more quotes.

So I said, let me take a look, and went over with a multimeter and a screwdriver and within 3 minutes determined it was the thermostat, which I pulled out and gave to my neighbour with instructions to go to the local plumbing supplies shop and "ask for one of those". He did and on return I fitted it for him and job done. Less than 10 minutes on the job and £9 for the part (plus the several beers he gave me in gratitude!).


Agreed. Wish I had a neighbour like you!

Dod

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Re: Scaffolding for a broken window?

#501241

Postby bungeejumper » May 18th, 2022, 12:09 pm

Mike4 wrote:
BullDog wrote:Second vote for a cherry picker.

Yes, the same safety and cost of scaffolding plus the speed and convenience of a ladder!

What a bunch of wusses. :lol: Around these rural parts, we goes to the farmer and he lends us 'is hyperdraulic loader, with one of them square buckets on the end, like you'd use for shovelling cow manure if only it was a JCB, but it in't. Then you'd put the lad into the bucket, and up e'd go, singing loudly all the way because you'd bribed 'e with cider and e'm skirred to show he was frit.

And if 'e comes down safely, tis all to the good. And if 'e dun't, I can 'ave 'is chair in the pub. ;)

BJ

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Re: Scaffolding for a broken window?

#501308

Postby Mike4 » May 18th, 2022, 3:02 pm

bungeejumper wrote:
Mike4 wrote:
BullDog wrote:Second vote for a cherry picker.

Yes, the same safety and cost of scaffolding plus the speed and convenience of a ladder!

What a bunch of wusses. :lol: Around these rural parts, we goes to the farmer and he lends us 'is hyperdraulic loader, with one of them square buckets on the end, like you'd use for shovelling cow manure if only it was a JCB, but it in't. Then you'd put the lad into the bucket, and up e'd go, singing loudly all the way because you'd bribed 'e with cider and e'm skirred to show he was frit.

And if 'e comes down safely, tis all to the good. And if 'e dun't, I can 'ave 'is chair in the pub. ;)

BJ


I agree, cherry pickers are deffly the equivalent of a JCB, for middle class builders


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